Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Omega_DCD]

That was the scene I remembered. And absolutely to the rest of your post.

Thank you! And same to yours and the other posts today I've been slow to keep up with

Regarding Jean's TK, I'll repost some unsung, less bombastic feats, but i do love 'em



Take charge, multi-tasking, improvisation and risk taking. Jean rescues everyone, catches a falling helicopter, places everyone inside while keeping Rictor tethered outside and then briefly stops his heart. Besides the individual feats, switching from brute, externally applied strength to delicate, internally applied precision is very impressive. It's the mental equivalent of trying to lift a heavy weight in one hand while not breaking the shell of an egg in the grip of your other hand. She could have just as easily accidentally caved his chest in.

And this one from Legion Quest





Despite the battle with Legion, anchoring herself from his temporal vortex, broadcasting a telepathic S.O.S despite the temporal energy distortion...Jean still manages to create a TK cocoon that stays in tact even after losing consciousness.

[BobbysWorld]

I've said it before in other threads, but I think the whole 'each omega only has ONE omega level power' thing doesn't work at all and most of them don't have abilities that can be clearly separated into multiple different powers that even CAN exist at different power levels. Like Bobby's omega level power is listed as negative temperature manipulation....but most of his biggest 'feats' are the stuff he does with moisture rather than temperature, like making multiple golems, teleporting, healing/immortality....stuff that comes from his control over his ice form rather than just....an ability to drop temperatures. So it just doesn't....work, to act like his manipulation of temperature is the only thing he does at omega levels. Its the same thing with Jean and how so many of her biggest feats aren't JUST the end result of solely her telepathy or solely her telekinesis, but use aspects of both, and so on with multiple other omegas. Its just a very unwieldy way to approach examining their powersets, when most omegas have powerSETS that are a combination of a bunch of things, rather than singular powers.

I mean, I know that as of right now, technically this is the canon, that each omega has one specific omega power even if they have multiple other powers. I just think its a dumb canon that doesn't make much sense and falls apart if you look at it too closely, which I don't think Hickman actually did before canonizing it that way.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I've said it before in other threads, but I think the whole 'each omega only has ONE omega level power' thing doesn't work at all and most of them don't have abilities that can be clearly separated into multiple different powers that even CAN exist at different power levels. Like Bobby's omega level power is listed as negative temperature manipulation....but most of his biggest 'feats' are the stuff he does with moisture rather than temperature, like making multiple golems, teleporting, healing/immortality....stuff that comes from his control over his ice form rather than just....an ability to drop temperatures. So it just doesn't....work, to act like his manipulation of temperature is the only thing he does at omega levels. Its the same thing with Jean and how so many of her biggest feats aren't JUST the end result of solely her telepathy or solely her telekinesis, but use aspects of both, and so on with multiple other omegas. Its just a very unwieldy way to approach examining their powersets, when most omegas have powerSETS that are a combination of a bunch of things, rather than singular powers.

I mean, I know that as of right now, technically this is the canon, that each omega has one specific omega power even if they have multiple other powers. I just think its a dumb canon that doesn't make much sense and falls apart if you look at it too closely, which I don't think Hickman actually did before canonizing it that way.

It also just didn't solve anything, which is my other issue with it besides the very intentional Jean downgrading.

[I'm a Fish]

This is one of my favorite character moments for Jean (I always ignore the cocoon retcon, lol)

I like moments when Jean goes from 0 to 110 so fast. Jean doesn't half-ass anything. XD

[Phoenixx9]

This is one of my favorite character moments for Jean (I always ignore the cocoon retcon, lol)

I like moments when Jean goes from 0 to 110 so fast. Jean doesn't half-ass anything. XD

This is one of my favorites! I love that power display!

Happy 250 Page Jean Grey!

[JeanGrey2]

I've said it before in other threads, but I think the whole 'each omega only has ONE omega level power' thing doesn't work at all and most of them don't have abilities that can be clearly separated into multiple different powers that even CAN exist at different power levels. Like Bobby's omega level power is listed as negative temperature manipulation....but most of his biggest 'feats' are the stuff he does with moisture rather than temperature, like making multiple golems, teleporting, healing/immortality....stuff that comes from his control over his ice form rather than just....an ability to drop temperatures. So it just doesn't....work, to act like his manipulation of temperature is the only thing he does at omega levels. Its the same thing with Jean and how so many of her biggest feats aren't JUST the end result of solely her telepathy or solely her telekinesis, but use aspects of both, and so on with multiple other omegas. Its just a very unwieldy way to approach examining their powersets, when most omegas have powerSETS that are a combination of a bunch of things, rather than singular powers.

I mean, I know that as of right now, technically this is the canon, that each omega has one specific omega power even if they have multiple other powers. I just think its a dumb canon that doesn't make much sense and falls apart if you look at it too closely, which I don't think Hickman actually did before canonizing it that way.

I think this is current I might be wrong but it looks like both jean's TP and TK are omega level againScreenshot_20220520-211013_Twitter.jpg

[JeanGrey2]

I don't know if this true or not but i hope soScreenshot_20220524-003051_Gallery.jpg

[Lukmendes]

And yet, as I've noted many times before, she was categorized as having "infinite mental powers" nearly a decade before either Phoenix or Claremont were anywhere near her. The limitlessness of her powers has been both alluded to and clearly stated since nearly the beginning of her history.

Man I wasn't even talking about this, you're just looking for flimsy excuses to post these panels now

As for Destiny classifying her as a "nexus of probabilities," it isn't the only time she's been referred to as a nexus. She was also referred to as a nexus by the Time-Keepers:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOh5aVeX...pg&name=medium

Ah, that's cool, thanks.

Nevertheless, it has been established multiple times that Jean, without the aid of the Phoenix Force, can transcend the death and destruction of her own body and either transfer her psyche to another body or simply continue living as an entity of pure thought.

No wonder Phoenix wants a piece of that lol.

and that conversation ends with her blowing a freakin' hole in the wall, lol.

That's a bit beyond "Blowing a whole in the wall", 'cause it looks like there's no wall left lol.

Much like Claremont did before introducing Phoenix, I think Morrison underplayed Jean's abilities so that her power displays as Phoenix would be more impactful. In Uncanny X-Men #105, written by Claremont—after Jean fights Firelord and "powers up an interstellar transmitter without batting an eyelash"—Scott thinks to himself, "Jean used to be the weakest X-Man,” which is patently false. I mean, this page and these panels alone quite literally prove that she was one of, if not the strongest member of the team (she and Bobby were always the strongest, which was later substantiated in X-Men Forever [2001]):

Best way to make sense of the "Jean used to be the weakest" is if you think about the earliest stories where she indeed was, but uh, she was also the newest member and her powers developed over time even in Lee/Kirby run (Though it was never pointed out directly, it possibly wasn't intentional improvement besides her using telekinesis to lift herself).

Even then, she still improved without the Phoenix anyways, so that's a weird misreading of older comics, and while yes, it was implied she was the weakest one back in Lee/Kirby era, with her powers improving while at least Angel remained stagnant, it's a weird thing to claim.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTcovMkX...png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTco5sxX...png&name=small

So both Spidey and one of his clones, Ben, made the mistake of calling Jean "Marvel Girl", now I want Kaine to do so as well for a rule of 3 lol.

[nightw1ng]

I think this is current I might be wrong but it looks like both jean's TP and TK are omega level againScreenshot_20220520-211013_Twitter.jpg

Unfortunately, I don't think that's real. It very much looks photoshopped. The "None" and "Telekinesis" parts were copied and pasted from other parts of the page. "None" was expanded to cover "Marvel Girl" and the alignment for "Telekinesis" is slightly off. Franklin Richards would also not be part of that list anymore.

[WallStreeter]

Here's a little article from ScreenRant on Jean seemingly dropping the moniker:

X-Men Officially Retires an Original Team Member's Codename
https://screenrant.com/original-xmen...-girl-phoenix/

I was going through my DM history on Twitter today and realized I sent Duggan a long message back in January regarding why it was out of character for Jean to be going by Marvel Girl, along with the pictures below. He never directly responded to those messages, though we did chat back and forth afterward. In either case, I do wonder if her recent declaration in X-Men #11 is meant to indicate that she will no longer be going by Marvel Girl. We'll see...

You know, a few issues back Dugan has Jean doubt her wearing her Marvel Girl costume.

Jean potentially shedding the Marvel Girl codename and taking the codename Phoenix back? Something like that would happen during a dramatic storyline, like the Eternals trying to kill all mutants.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Speaking of the Marvel Girl name, did any editor or writer ever explain why Jean suddenly dropped her codename in the early 90s, somewhere in between the end of X-Factor and Claremont/Lee X-Men IIRC?

[Marvelfan1992]

I don't know if this true or not but i hope soScreenshot_20220524-003051_Gallery.jpg

pretty sure that's an edit made by mercury posted on twitter

[Phoenixx9]

Best way to make sense of the "Jean used to be the weakest" is if you think about the earliest stories where she indeed was, but uh, she was also the newest member and her powers developed over time even in Lee/Kirby run (Though it was never pointed out directly, it possibly wasn't intentional improvement besides her using telekinesis to lift herself).

Even then, she still improved without the Phoenix anyways, so that's a weird misreading of older comics, and while yes, it was implied she was the weakest one back in Lee/Kirby era, with her powers improving while at least Angel remained stagnant, it's a weird thing to claim.

You say you are a Jean Grey fan but then you post something like this.... I am focusing on the "Jean being the weakest" part. You are wrong, Jean was never the weakest.

1) Being the newest member, be it Jean or anyone else, does not make them the weakest. Jean may have been the last "official" member, but Jean was the first one found and trained by Xavier
2) Jean had years of practice with her TK upon joining the team
3) Right from issue 1 Jean was doing mighty things. Jean stopped a missile
4) Jean lifted 6 women up off the ground and moved them across the street to the second story of a movie marquis (at least 750 pounds)
5) What could Warren do? Flap his chicken wings? Jean was way more powerful
6) Bobby was a walking snowman. Jean was way more powerful
7) Beast, at the end of the original run could lift 1 ton. How much could he lift initially? 250 pounds? Of course he was agile and swift. But we see in issue 1 (that Mercury posted) what Jean did to Beast

I am not going to argue this point with you or anyone else. These are the true facts presented above.

But it was necessary to correct this misinformation in Jean's Thread about Jean's Standing and this incorrect idea that Jean was weak. Jean was never the weakest.

Today, Jean is a Psionic Goddess of the Highest Order.

[Mercury]

I think this is current I might be wrong but it looks like both jean's TP and TK are omega level againScreenshot_20220520-211013_Twitter.jpg

While I consider both her power classifications to be at Omega Level, per historical canon, alas, this is a doctored version of the original data page. I just wanted to see what it would look like. I'm sorry for misleading you!

Man I wasn't even talking about this, you're just looking for flimsy excuses to post these panels now

Haha! Well, I was talking about this, Mendy...

No wonder Phoenix wants a piece of that lol.

Right? I'm sayin'...

That's a bit beyond "Blowing a whole in the wall", 'cause it looks like there's no wall left lol.

Jean was not having it.

Best way to make sense of the "Jean used to be the weakest" is if you think about the earliest stories where she indeed was, but uh, she was also the newest member and her powers developed over time even in Lee/Kirby run (Though it was never pointed out directly, it possibly wasn't intentional improvement besides her using telekinesis to lift herself).

But even in the earliest stories, she wasn't the weakest. I mean, in addition to taking Hank for a spin, she was able to lift five soldiers (that's about 750 lbs right there) and grab hold of and redirect a live missile into the ocean all in issue #1. Between issues #1 and #10, she used her telekinesis to lift six women several feet in the air and transport them, redirect Bobby's ice pellets at him at high speeds, stop Quicksilver mid-run twice and spin him midair, take apart a rifle and reassemble it with expert precision, topple a dinosaur, and overwhelm Scarlet Witch. (To verify this, see this long ass thread: https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...79233021689865)

One of my favorite of Lee and Kirby's X-Men pages is the one below (from issue #17 or #18), which was from the end of their run and shows her both multitasking and being instrumental to the success and, frankly, survival of the team.

Even then, she still improved without the Phoenix anyways, so that's a weird misreading of older comics, and while yes, it was implied she was the weakest one back in Lee/Kirby era, with her powers improving while at least Angel remained stagnant, it's a weird thing to claim.

It is weird, but, as I noted previously, I think Claremont wanted to underscore how drastic her transformation into Phoenix was. Nevertheless, the fact that Claremont liked Jean before he got to work on her—he was the one that decided to bring her back after Lein wrote her leaving the team—is a testament to the fact that she was both complex (e.g., sensitive but assertive) and powerful from the very beginning. It's clear he wanted to highlight these qualities of hers more than they had been during the original run.

So both Spidey and one of his clones, Ben, made the mistake of calling Jean "Marvel Girl", now I want Kaine to do so as well for a rule of 3 lol.

You rascal, you!

You know, a few issues back Dugan has Jean doubt her wearing her Marvel Girl costume.

Jean potentially shedding the Marvel Girl codename and taking the codename Phoenix back? Something like that would happen during a dramatic storyline, like the Eternals trying to kill all mutants.

While Duggan has undoubtedly been teasing out Jean renouncing her old garb and moniker, I'm not sure that it will lead to her reclaiming her Phoenix iconography, i.e., the Phoenix codename or costume. Still, you bring up a good point: Traditionally, Judgement Day is just the kind of event that would feature and even highlight a moment or twist like Jean becoming Phoenix again. However, I think it's more likely that this event will serve as a pivotal moment for establishing her current psychological state, perhaps including her reasoning for dropping the Marvel Girl veneer.

Based on what Gillen has said, he seems intent on tapping into Jean's history as Phoenix and with Madelyne Pryor. Incidentally, while some have a been there, done that attitude about this—understandably so!—I 1) think it's important, especially in this era, to reestablish core aspects of characters' mythos to remind long-time and inform newer readers of their various facets, and 2) am beyond excited to have a writer as capable and talented as Gillen doing the reminding. Besides, I think he'll do a little more with Jean than just rehash older stories.

Speaking of the Marvel Girl name, did any editor or writer ever explain why Jean suddenly dropped her codename in the early 90s, somewhere in between the end of X-Factor and Claremont/Lee X-Men IIRC?

I don't think so. I mean, the closest thing we got to an explanation was Claremont's "The Apocalypse Manifesto," which included Apocalypse's ruminations on why Jean was still going by Marvel Girl at the time, which could have been Claremont's way of spearheading its retirement. (I posted the page within the last 1-3 pages of this thread).

pretty sure that's an edit made by mercury posted on twitter

Bingo!

You say you are a Jean Grey fan but then you post something like this.... I am focusing on the "Jean being the weakest" part. You are wrong, Jean was never the weakest.

1) Being the newest member, be it Jean or anyone else, does not make them the weakest. Jean may have been the last "official" member, but Jean was the first one found and trained by Xavier
2) Jean had years of practice with her TK upon joining the team
3) Right from issue 1 Jean was doing mighty things. Jean stopped a missile
4) Jean lifted 6 women up off the ground and moved them across the street to the second story of a movie marquis (at least 750 pounds)
5) What could Warren do? Flap his chicken wings? Jean was way more powerful
6) Bobby was a walking snowman. Jean was way more powerful
7) Beast, at the end of the original run could lift 1 ton. How much could he lift initially? 250 pounds? Of course he was agile and swift. But we see in issue 1 (that Mercury posted) what Jean did to Beast

I am not going to argue this point with you or anyone else. These are the true facts presented above.

But it was necessary to correct this misinformation in Jean's Thread about Jean's Standing and this incorrect idea that Jean was weak. Jean was never the weakest.

Today, Jean is a Psionic Goddess of the Highest Order.

Aw! While I find your fervent defense of Jean sweet, Lukemendes is a Jean fan and means no harm. He and I have discussed this topic before.

[Phoenixx9]

Aw! While I find your fervent defense of Jean sweet, Lukemendes is a Jean fan and means no harm. He and I have discussed this topic before.

Hmmn. Thank you my friend. I believe you Mercury! ....but I don't know....seems like one of the endless "Jean" fans that really are not.

You have listed so many scenes of Jean's early power displays, described them over and over, along with myself and others, but some here continually come on and say the same things in the opposite to what is shown, downplaying Jean.

I mean, imagine if he went on Storm's thread and said she was weak, chile, he would be eaten alive! Send flowers, lol!