Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

Aw, I’m sorry you feel that way! Personally, I love Claremont’s Jean through and through. He understood her incredibly well and wrote her with depth, nuance, and dare I say aplomb.

I think there's much more to praise about his work than to criticize. But I also think that, with time, the editors dared less when it came to doing their job. And you know? I'm not sure I'd have it in me to actually read an original script of his and tell him: "Mr. Claremont, you legend you, you should re-work this part because of this, this and that" either. But the point is that this lack of supervision/feedback shows (and shows particularly well in that series due to its very premise). He is one of those writers whose writing can benefit a lot from having a good editor.

The thing is... despite my perception of her characterization, personally, I don't like fanboy-ism, even when I'm a big fan of the character who benefited from it.

But I'm glad you can enjoy it enough to consider it a guilty pleasure. :)

[Exodus]

You’re welcome, love!


Also, people…I mean, come on. ��❤️

Amazing. I always love when she attacks mentally and physically at the same time. Claremont’s love for her always shows.

[Phoenixx9]

You’re welcome, love!


Also, people…I mean, come on. ��❤️

This was a nice Jean power display... but then it gets ruined for me when you have Kitty whining about leaving (Jean would know if they needed to, DUH!) and Kurt mentioning the Phoenix! This was Jean doing it with her powers!

Please, people, Jean is powerful on her own! Let her shine and stop always reverting to past storylines to define Jean!

[Exodus]

Okay, so I was curious and I read the whole thing already.

I don't feel comfortable to comment about it, though. Nowadays, I only talk about certain things to people who know me a little. This is not something against you, in particular. It's a general rule I imposed to myself because I've just finally learnt how to navigate the current state of online interactions better. It's not how I wish things could be. But it is what it is.

Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing.

Ui. Just saw this message. Thanks for reading anyhow.

[Grinning Soul]

Strange binary way to navigate the world. What about nonbinary writers, who can they write? But fair enough…there should be more attention for female writers in general. I guess that’s my opinion about the topic.

Any writer can write any character. I have no idea what non-binary writers can write well, though, because I have no idea how much of what we are actually comes from biology or socialization or both (and in which proportions). Do you?

[Grinning Soul]

Ui. Just saw this message. Thanks for reading anyhow.

No problem. I thought it was interesting and there was a lot to unpack and lots of points I'd in theory like to discuss. But I don't want to have this kind of discussion over the internet, where it's very easy to lose the perspective that these letters don't generate themselves, that behind them there is a whole human being, even if it's another alien robot like me. :P

[Exodus]

No problem. I thought it was interesting and there was a lot to unpack and lots of points I'd in theory like to discuss. But I don't want to have this kind of discussion over the internet, where it's very easy to lose the perspective that these letters don't generate themselves, that behind them there is a whole human being, even if it's another alien robot like me. :P

I get that. No worries. It’s also time and energy consuming.

Aren’t we all Russian bots here?

[Exodus]

Any writer can write any character. I have no idea what non-binary writers can write well, though, because I have no idea how much of what we are actually comes from biology or socialization or both (and in which proportions). Do you?

Biology in this context is really not a concept I care about.

[Grinning Soul]

I get that. No worries. It’s also time and energy consuming.

Aren’t we all Russian bots here?

I come from Ziggy's planet, but I was damaged and fixed by Vulcans. :P

[Grinning Soul]

Biology in this context is really not a concept I care about.

Not sure if biology cares of what we think of it either. :P

Seriously: I just don't know how everything actually works. I'm talking about current perception of our society, without making any judgement of how good/bad or right/wrong things are or how it should be.

[Mercury]

The thing is... despite my perception of her characterization, personally, I don't like fanboy-ism, even when I'm a big fan of the character who benefited from it.

But I'm glad you can enjoy it enough to consider it a guilty pleasure.

I don’t think Claremont was exhibiting fanboy-ism as much as tapping into what he always wanted to do with Jean before Byrne and editorial pressured/convinced him to get rid of Phoenix: Make her strong, complex, independent, and powerful. Now, I’m sure you and other Jean fans weren’t happy that Claremont paired Jean with Logan, but the focus of her arc isn’t their relationship so much as her own struggles with guilt, a sense of duty and responsibility, and her unique experience as someone who crossed the line between life and death. Moreover, though she loved Logan passionately, she also had a deep love for and felt more known by Scott, which I found a fascinating dynamic for her to be placed in. Ultimately, even when Claremont placed Jean in circumstances that were foreign to some of us and anathema to others, he was always true to her character, i.e., nothing he wrote for Jean seemed out of character, as far as I’m concerned.

After my recent rereading of X-Men Forever 1 and 2, I think I’ve gone from considering it a guilty pleasure to actually loving it. I’ll have to think about it more, but I certainly don’t consider what he did with Jean to be a guilty pleasure but utterly plausible and enthralling. :*

[Mercury]

Amazing. I always love when she attacks mentally and physically at the same time. Claremont’s love for her always shows.

I completely agree!

[Grinning Soul]

I don’t think Claremont was exhibiting fanboy-ism as much as tapping into what he always wanted to do with Jean before Byrne and editorial pressured/convinced him to get rid of Phoenix: Make her strong, complex, independent, and powerful. Now, I’m sure you and other Jean fans weren’t happy that Claremont paired Jean with Logan, but the focus of her arc isn’t their relationship so much as her own struggles with guilt, a sense of duty and responsibility, and her unique experience as someone who crossed the line between life and death. Moreover, though she loved Logan passionately, she also had a deep love for and felt more known by Scott, which I found a fascinating dynamic for her to be placed in.

Mercury, dear, can you please stop assuming that if I don't like something it must be because Jean is with Logan or because she's not with Scott? Haven't I shown you that I'm capable of more nuanced perception of the character than those shipings? Besides, this is not even the 616 continuity...

Yes, I love Scott and Jean together. I've never denied it. But it doesn't inform my every opinion of their characters.

Ultimately, even when Claremont placed Jean in circumstances that were foreign to some of us and anathema to others, he was always true to her character, i.e., nothing he wrote for Jean seemed out of character, as far as I’m concerned.

After my recent rereading of X-Men Forever 1 and 2, I think I’ve gone from considering it a guilty pleasure to actually loving it. I’ll have to think about it more, but I certainly don’t consider what he did with Jean to be a guilty pleasure but utterly plausible and enthralling. :*

Again: I'm happy you enjoy it.

[Mercury]

Is it odd that I find Jean and Scott’s dynamic here sexy?



A moment ☝🏻😌

[Mercury]

Mercury, dear, can you please stop assuming that if I don't like something it must be because Jean is with Logan or because she's not with Scott? Haven't I shown you that I'm capable of more nuanced perception of the character than those shipings? Besides, this is not even the 616 continuity...

Yes, I love Scott and Jean together. I've never denied it. But it doesn't inform my every opinion of their characters.



Again: I'm happy you enjoy it.

I do apologize if it seemed as if I was implying or “assuming” that you don’t like this run because Jean and Logan are linked; I can assure you that was not my intent, darling.

😂😘