Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Reigna]

The way I interpret that description of Phoenix--admittedly, I am biased and favor the definition established by Claremont, who created the Phoenix Force--the writer is specifically referring to Echo as "an avatar" and the Phoenix Force fragment she is bonded with as "one of the primordial powers of life." �� Seriously, though, as Claremont has Jean say below,





Honestly, though, I can't take what they're doing with the Phoenix Force seriously, so I don't pay it much mind. In another few years, it'll probably be back with Jean or another host. We just have to roll with the punches and have fun!

Because they also made chaos magic a primordial cosmic power of life and I am like how many primordial cosmic powers if life are there? I am very confused. Who did what to whom and how?

[Mercury]

Because they also made chaos magic a primordial cosmic power of life and I am like how many primordial cosmic powers if life are there? I am very confused. Who did what to whom and how?

It's crazy, lol. I think of it this way: The Phoenix Force is "the spark that ignites creation," and chaos magic both encompasses and can manipulate the ensuing chaos--i.e., the myriad processes requisite to creating--ignited by the Phoenix Force. In other words, the Phoenix Force encompasses and brings about chaos magic, for without creation, which it ignites, there is no chaos, magic, or chaos magic.

Granted, the definitions of both the Phoenix Force and chaos magic have shifted and changed throughout the years. During AvX, they attempted to establish both forces as equal (see below). However, it is important to note that in order to subdue the Phoenix Force, Wanda, despite her use of chaos magic, had to enlist the help of Hope Summers, who briefly embodied the White Phoenix, which is the ultimate manifestation of the Phoenix Force.



Furthermore, when Hope embodied the White Phoenix, Jean still inhabited the role, i.e., she was established as the White Phoenix back in the 1980s and fully inhabited the position from her death in New X-Men (2004) to her resurrection in Phoenix Resurrection (2018). It can be assumed that it was Jean helping both Hope and Wanda subdue the Phoenix Force and return it to the White Hot Room. Moreover, Jean warned Emma of the coming of Hope and the Phoenix Force, making it clear that she was aware of all of these events--perhaps even orchestrated them--prior to them happening.

In either case, I find this aspect of Jean's lore utterly fascinating. What makes it doubly fascinating is the fact that the writers and editorial staff have consistently maintained the connection between Jean and the Phoenix Force, both directly and indirectly, despite the retcons. (See the "first host" of the Phoenix Force, i.e., Firehair, who looks exactly like Jean and stumbled upon a real-life cyclops, whom she saved and cared for.)

[Mercury]

Incidentally, part of the reason I don't take seriously claims that assert Jean is no longer capable of this or that is the following: One of the most consistent descriptions of her abilities is that they are limitless and transcend the physical plane of existence and perhaps reality as we know it.

Whether one refers to her being classified as having "infinite mental powers" by a highly-advanced A.I. back in 1968 (see Uncanny X-Men #48); being classified as "a nexus of probabilities" and "an anomaly" by Destiny in 1986 and 1988, respectively (see X-Factor #8 and #30), and as a "nexus" by both the Watcher and the Time-Keepers in another reality in 1992 (see What If...[Wolverine Was Lord of the Vampires]? #37); repeatedly becoming a disembodied "entity of pure thought" in 1976, 1992, and 2018 (see Uncanny X-Men #125 and Classic X-Men #8; Uncanny X-Men #282 and #283; and Venomized #5); or being depicted as the White Phoenix of the Crown for over two decades (see Classic X-Men #43, New X-Men #150-154, Phoenix Endsong #5, and several other appearances), the writers can't seem to avoid highlighting the vastness of her abilities, both with and without the Phoenix Force.

While Jean's abilities have always ebbed and flowed throughout her nearly sixty-year history, depending on the writer charged with writing her, she is always reestablished as being unrestricted by physical laws and connected to something of vast power, be it the Phoenix Force or an unnamed source.

Food for thought.

[Phoenixx9]

Incidentally, part of the reason I don't take seriously claims that assert Jean is no longer capable of this or that is the following: One of the most consistent descriptions of her abilities is that they are limitless and transcend the physical plane of existence and perhaps reality as we know it.

Whether one refers to her being classified as having "infinite mental powers" by a highly-advanced A.I. back in 1968 (see Uncanny X-Men #48); being classified as "a nexus of probabilities" and "an anomaly" by Destiny in 1986 and 1988, respectively (see X-Factor #8 and #30), and as a "nexus" by both the Watcher and the Time-Keepers in another reality in 1992 (see What If...[Wolverine Was Lord of the Vampires]? #37); repeatedly becoming a disembodied "entity of pure thought" in 1976, 1992, and 2018 (see Uncanny X-Men #125 and Classic X-Men #8; Uncanny X-Men #282 and #283; and Venomized #5); or being depicted as the White Phoenix of the Crown for over two decades (see Classic X-Men #43, New X-Men #150-154, Phoenix Endsong #5, and several other appearances), the writers can't seem to avoid highlighting the vastness of her abilities, both with and without the Phoenix Force.

While Jean's abilities have always ebbed and flowed throughout her nearly sixty-year history, depending on the writer charged with writing her, she is always reestablished as being unrestricted by physical laws and connected to something of vast power, be it the Phoenix Force or an unnamed source.

Food for thought.

A veritable feast! Chow down, y'all!

[Reigna]

It's crazy, lol. I think of it this way: The Phoenix Force is "the spark that ignites creation," and chaos magic both encompasses and can manipulate the ensuing chaos--i.e., the myriad processes requisite to creating--ignited by the Phoenix Force. In other words, the Phoenix Force encompasses and brings about chaos magic, for without creation, which it ignites, there is no chaos, magic, or chaos magic.

Granted, the definitions of both the Phoenix Force and chaos magic have shifted and changed throughout the years. During AvX, they attempted to establish both forces as equal (see below). However, it is important to note that in order to subdue the Phoenix Force, Wanda, despite her use of chaos magic, had to enlist the help of Hope Summers, who briefly embodied the White Phoenix, which is the ultimate manifestation of the Phoenix Force.



Furthermore, when Hope embodied the White Phoenix, Jean still inhabited the role, i.e., she was established as the White Phoenix back in the 1980s and fully inhabited the position from her death in New X-Men (2004) to her resurrection in Phoenix Resurrection (2018). It can be assumed that it was Jean helping both Hope and Wanda subdue the Phoenix Force and return it to the White Hot Room. Moreover, Jean warned Emma of the coming of Hope and the Phoenix Force, making it clear that she was aware of all of these events--perhaps even orchestrated them--prior to them happening.

In either case, I find this aspect of Jean's lore utterly fascinating. What makes it doubly fascinating is the fact that the writers and editorial staff have consistently maintained the connection between Jean and the Phoenix Force, both directly and indirectly, despite the retcons. (See the "first host" of the Phoenix Force, i.e., Firehair, who looks exactly like Jean and stumbled upon a real-life cyclops, whom she saved and cared for.)

Really, white pheonix existed in the 80's? That's kinda nuts.

And the pheonix and chaos are both two sides of the same coin order and chaos if you will? Making both facilitators of life as one ignites it and the other perpetuates it?

[Reigna]

Incidentally, part of the reason I don't take seriously claims that assert Jean is no longer capable of this or that is the following: One of the most consistent descriptions of her abilities is that they are limitless and transcend the physical plane of existence and perhaps reality as we know it.

Whether one refers to her being classified as having "infinite mental powers" by a highly-advanced A.I. back in 1968 (see Uncanny X-Men #48); being classified as "a nexus of probabilities" and "an anomaly" by Destiny in 1986 and 1988, respectively (see X-Factor #8 and #30), and as a "nexus" by both the Watcher and the Time-Keepers in another reality in 1992 (see What If...[Wolverine Was Lord of the Vampires]? #37); repeatedly becoming a disembodied "entity of pure thought" in 1976, 1992, and 2018 (see Uncanny X-Men #125 and Classic X-Men #8; Uncanny X-Men #282 and #283; and Venomized #5); or being depicted as the White Phoenix of the Crown for over two decades (see Classic X-Men #43, New X-Men #150-154, Phoenix Endsong #5, and several other appearances), the writers can't seem to avoid highlighting the vastness of her abilities, both with and without the Phoenix Force.

While Jean's abilities have always ebbed and flowed throughout her nearly sixty-year history, depending on the writer charged with writing her, she is always reestablished as being unrestricted by physical laws and connected to something of vast power, be it the Phoenix Force or an unnamed source.

Food for thought.

Huh I see... thanks for the clarification. The whole pheonix thing and its standing in the universe is confusing to me. But this sure helps.

[Mercury]

Really, white pheonix existed in the 80's? That's kinda nuts.

I was mistaken. She first appeared in January 1990. Classic X-Men #43.

And the pheonix and chaos are both two sides of the same coin order and chaos if you will? Making both facilitators of life as one ignites it and the other perpetuates it?

That's if that is how they currently define them—I honestly don’t know. In the Dark Phoenix Saga (Uncanny X-Men #137), Phoenix is described as “the Black Angel of legend—Chaos-Bringer—ravager of worlds” by Gladiator, and is said to be “a primal force second only to that of the Creator” by the Watcher. Later, Claremont established the Phoenix Force as the spark that both ignites and ends creation.

Huh I see... thanks for the clarification. The whole pheonix thing and its standing in the universe is confusing to me. But this sure helps.

You’re welcome!

[Mercury]

While flipping through DPS, I noticed the following, which I had never honed in on before: “She reaches for the sky—summoning the lightning—laughing as the awesome bolts of energy caress her body like a lover.”

[Phoenixx9]

While flipping through DPS, I noticed the following, which I had never honed in on before: “She reaches for the sky—summoning the lightning—laughing as the awesome bolts of energy caress her body like a lover.”

I always took that to mean the Phoenix is a cosmic entity and lightning only caresses her but cannot harm her in the least.

After absorbing all of the lightning, Jean manifests an extremely huge Phoenix Raptor that fills the entire sky!!

[Mercury]

I always took that to mean the Phoenix is a cosmic entity and lightning only caresses her but cannot harm her in the least.

After absorbing all of the lightning, Jean manifests an extremely huge Phoenix Raptor that fills the entire sky!!

You are so adorably effusive!

[Subliminally]

�� I think the redesign the fan made is great!



Thanks for sharing, Sub! I tweeted it out a few days ago but forgot to share here.

No problem at all! I just wish they'd stop saying she's under Xavier in power. It's 2022, the man himself stated she's more powerful than him when he didn't add himself to the Omega list but had no issue adding Kid DiesA lot.

[Phoenixx9]

You are so adorably effusive!

Aw, thank you love!

[Mercury]

No problem at all! I just wish they'd stop saying she's under Xavier in power. It's 2022, the man himself stated she's more powerful than him when he didn't add himself to the Omega list but had no issue adding Kid DiesA lot.

Even Marvel acknowledges this. At this point, as much as I hate resorting to this claim, I think it is just plain misogyny.

From Dauterman’s trading card variant cover to X-Men #3:

Aw, thank you love!

:*

[Mercury]

One of my favorite Phoenix moments, showcasing both her strength and vulnerability. Claremont and Byrne were at their peak.



That face…🤌🏼

[Tank]

One of my favorite Phoenix moments, showcasing both her strength and vulnerability. Claremont and Byrne were at their peak.



That face…����

I miss this Jean. The one with an edge. Current nice carebear Jean isnt it and dreadfully one note.