Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Zelena]

For a telepath, she is usually written as a sympathetic one.

As for her taste in men… she could have done worse.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

People say Jean and the Phoenix is tired and done to death then intimate that she should focus on Scott as an alternative lmao.

Un-iconify is a good made-up word. That they are so adamant about un-iconifying her is what indicates that it's about as insidious as comic character management decisions get.

It's just antiquated people with antiquated thoughts, intimidated by the thought of a powerful and fully expressed Jean, just like Byrne.

[The Kid]

Jean's taste in men could def be pretty questionable ngl lol but like someone else said, she could do worse

[Daedra]

People say Jean and the Phoenix is tired and done to death then intimate that she should focus on Scott as an alternative lmao.

Un-iconify is a good made-up word. That they are so adamant about un-iconifying her is what indicates that it's about as insidious as comic character management decisions get.

It's just antiquated people with antiquated thoughts, intimidated by the thought of a powerful and fully expressed Jean, just like Byrne.

For what it is worth lemme just say that I agree with you 100% on this issue, I think you nailed it perfectly.

[Rev9]

Jean does have a questionable taste for men. She's not perfect after all, but Cyclops is not as boring as people make him to be nor is it related to his sexuality, it's just his bland personality and the way he's lived his life.

The Phoenix Force has been used as an accessory and I don't really think Jean needs it. They have a great story, they were one or bonded for life, however, I'm exhausted of people reducing Jean to a weak lady that needs a cosmic bird to be strong. This Phoenix off-on switch has hurt Jean and made people question her abilities and power, not to mention everybody and their mother being able to host it. Something that was intended to be a unique relationship or a natural extension of her powers became a cheap plot device and the best thing for Jean is to stay far away from it, at least while it's been treated like a boost that anyone can wield.

This inconsistency only allows people to make Jean seem like she can't lift a paperbag without the Force boosting her up.

You're right about the PF needing a break. If we are to have PF as a player,the cosmic entity it is should be explored as a sentient being without a host or having its own true form/ avatar that it manifests through (that isn't Jean) or its penchant for sojourning in hosts should be explained. Basically enrich the mythos,and I agree it is better Jean and the PF are kept apart ,after all she made her choice in 'Ressurection' that connotes strength.

[starduck]

People say Jean and the Phoenix is tired and done to death then intimate that she should focus on Scott as an alternative lmao.

Un-iconify is a good made-up word. That they are so adamant about un-iconifying her is what indicates that it's about as insidious as comic character management decisions get.

It's just antiquated people with antiquated thoughts, intimidated by the thought of a powerful and fully expressed Jean, just like Byrne.

I love Jean as Phoenix what I hate is how it usually ends. I also like the pink jello/sparkles a bit more than the fire

[Daedra]

I love Jean as Phoenix what I hate is how it usually ends. I also like the pink jello/sparkles a bit more than the fire

I can totally compromise for a pink phoenix as long as you are on board

[andreikes]

That's why she should be on the X-Men Red team.

Jean and Storm = dream team

[Exodus]

I can totally compromise for a pink phoenix as long as you are on board

yes please, let's bring on the pink Phoenix effect for HER psy powers! Not sure why writers are so boring and do not see how awesome this would be?!

[starduck]

I can totally compromise for a pink phoenix as long as you are on board

I'd love that it would be her best power signature, they could make her pink form fiery too

yes please, let's bring on the pink Phoenix effect for HER psy powers! Not sure why writers are so boring and do not see how awesome this would be?!

I think they did it with Jeen like one or two times

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

She pulled a pink raptor when she punched Galactus.

Lol I don't need her that strong every issue, but that's the kind of audacity that the character should have all the time. 1930s hausfrau needs to go away.

[starduck]

She pulled a pink raptor when she punched Galactus.

Lol I don't need her that strong every issue, but that's the kind of audacity that the character should have all the time. 1930s hausfrau needs to go away.

Yeah, I liked when she humiliated Nightmare's ass in X-men. She isn't intimidated by demons or cosmic beings at all

[Starchilde]

Frankly, I don't understand why they even try so hard? It is what it is. It doesn't mean that every story after that needs to star both Jean and the Phoenix, that you can never separate them conceptually and spin them off into other directions....it just means whatever you do with them either separately or together, you need to at least accept that no matter WHAT you do, for some people, they will always be linked in their minds. And its the latter part that Marvel just....doesn't want to accept, and so they keep trying to create a definitive story or take that conclusively severs any connection Jean has ever had with the Phoenix once and for all, and its like....that's dumb. I'm sorry, but that's dumb. The more you fixate on that, the more you uphold The Ultimate Jeanie-and-the-Phoenix Break Up Song as the holy grail of Jean stories......

Bobby your whole post is spot on. And this paragraph is exactly what I don't understand: this utter necessity of totally separate anything Phoenix from Jean and PAINT IT AS BAD or as "something bad that happened to the character" how in hell is bad if its such an iconic concept, story and lore created specially for HER!!! like sorry no one can take that away no matter how hard you try. And the way Marvel and many fans of X-Men put the, as you said, "Jean and Phoenix Break Up Song" in such an "untouchable" place as if Rosenberg's lazy story is the paragon of Jean's characterizaton ughhh.

[Mercury]

To be clear, I absolutely think there's more to Jean than the Phoenix, that she's a great character even without it. She doesn't NEED it to be compelling. You don't need to include the Phoenix in her stories in order to have something to do with her character or something to say about her.

Most people forget or don't even know that Jean was categorized as having "infinite mental powers" by Computo and his Cybertrons after she was able to telepathically scan and trace an "electronic—[i.e., robot]—brain" eight years before the first appearance of Phoenix. I always go back to those panels in Uncanny X-Men #48 (1968) because not only do I think they influenced Claremont's eventual take on Jean but also because they're important to the character's mythos. As far as I'm concerned, Jean does have infinite mental powers, but neither she nor the writers have caught up with or fully explored that fact yet, lol. Nevertheless, whether you see them as separate or one and the same, this is why the Phoenix Force was drawn to or manifested through her, to begin with. Either take clocks because of these panels.







In either case, I completely agree with you: Jean's mythos and pathos are so rich, that she doesn't need to be Phoenix to be compelling. For all the flack he gets, Bendis proved this during his run on All-New X-Men, which contains a treasure trove of perspectives and motivations for her as a character. There is so much to explore in-depth with her, from her myriad traumas to her past ascendance to godhood to her infinite abilities to her time as Xavier's first student prior to the formation of the X-Men to her relationships with her children to how the murder of her family and her time displacement have impacted her to her education in psychology and physics and so on and so forth. Hers is and should be a journey of individuation. However, though she has existed uniquely separate and apart from the whole—she changed reality with a thought—she is also constantly subjected to being defined by her relationships. As an individual character, she is beyond fascinating, which is both her curse and blessing.

[H]ere's the simple truth: Jean and the Phoenix are ALWAYS going to be linked in a lot of peoples' minds, no matter WHAT you do. That's....literally just what happens when two characters or concepts are centered in an iconic story like the Dark Phoenix Saga.....they're always going to be associated with each other in a lot of minds no matter WHAT you do with them together or separately after that story, because....it was iconic? ... And that's not a genie you can ever put back in the bottle. Frankly, I don't understand why they even try so hard? It is what it is. It doesn't mean that every story after that needs to star both Jean and the Phoenix, that you can never separate them conceptually and spin them off into other directions....it just means whatever you do with them either separately or together, you need to at least accept that no matter WHAT you do, for some people, they will always be linked in their minds. And its the latter part that Marvel just....doesn't want to accept...

The thing is, Marvel leaned into the link between Jean and Phoenix by making the first avatar a woman who looks exactly like her and shares her exact abilities—and finds a baby cyclops!—which, I feel, is something that was done purposefully as either a tip of the hat to or backdoor through which to later introduce Jean. We'll see. In either case, I'm not convinced Marvel's endgame is to completely and irreparably sever the bond between Jean and Phoenix. I just think they're cautious about uniting them once more because all eyes are drawn to her when she is Phoenix, which can be detrimental to stories and characters within as insulated a world as the one mutants occupy. As White Phoenix, she warranted her own cosmic/existential solo series, but that never came to pass. However, as I noted above, Bendis knew exactly what to do with her, which was to lean into her pathos. This is what they need to do with her now.

[Daedra]

Bobby your whole post is spot on. And this paragraph is exactly what I don't understand: this utter necessity of totally separate anything Phoenix from Jean and PAINT IT AS BAD or as "something bad that happened to the character" how in hell is bad if its such an iconic concept, story and lore created specially for HER!!! like sorry no one can take that away no matter how hard you try. And the way Marvel and many fans of X-Men put the, as you said, "Jean and Phoenix Break Up Song" in such an "untouchable" place as if Rosenberg's lazy story is the paragon of Jean's characterizaton ughhh.

Because her iconic phoenix persona puts her on the spotlight and they can’t have that because the editors don’t want that, notice how they always act like it’s too much for Jean but then they try to steal the spark and the narrative in order to bestow it upon who they think deserves it instead? the tried to make the pf about Frost and the cuckoos then they tried to pin it on cyclops, then it was Quentin quire time, suddenly wolverine is an expert on the phoenix, now it is all about Echo. There is a lot of “phoenix envy” going around whether the powers in charge admit it or not.
These creatively bankrupt “geniuses” will never recapture the synergy between Jean and the Force but they have proven to be very stubborn so they will keep squandering it rather than admit it’s not working.