Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

The movie was meant to be a Jean/Phoenix origin story, not an adaptation of the whole Dark Phoenix Saga.

She immediately goes Dark, so I don't know how else I'd characterize it... It certainly doesn't seem like an origin story to me. But we can disagree on that and live with it, right? :)

[Del torro]

Others have done it, but it's mostly jeans family members or other Omega mutants

Nate grey has survived as just psychic energy or as a psychic ghost, possessing people and messing around. He later rebuilt his body by draining a group of telepaths.

Quentin was living as psychic energy in vat after he died in New xmen. In Phoenix endsong he finally pulled himself together and built a body, but that dissolved at the end of endsong. In nation x he was making constructs of himself to appear around Utopia, dunno how he finally got a real body back by schism.

Madelyn survived as a ghost on the Astral plane till nate grey pulled her back together and constructed a body for her. But It wasn't a real body and was dependent on nate, she couldn't bleed and stuff like that(she dispersed for a bit when stryfe drained her, but pulled herself back together on the Astral plane). Later in uncanny sisterhood storyline she was a psychic ghost and needed jeans deadbody to get a body strong enough to contain her power (they tricked her into possessing the wrong corpse and exploding but that didn't kill her, only dispersed her psychic energy till Arkea gathered it back).

Rachel as mother askani was living across the time stream as a psychic ghost, pulling Scott and Jean across timeliness and stuff. Until she finally merged with Current Rachel in Xmen gold. Kind of similar, Rachels Astral form was trapped in an alternate reality Age of X, when she projected from Shiar space to earth and got trapped in Legions reality warp)

Malice was a psi who died and survived as an Astral ghost for years, possessing people. They recently gave her a new body through the protocols.

Cassandra died in the womb, but her Astral ghost stuck around growing

Kwannon hung around Betsy for years waiting for her to leave the body, Nd took it immediately betsy got her brtitsh body back (think there were like two other times when kwannons ghost fought betsy for the body).

When Betsy died in X of swords, her ghost was running around otherwolrd and the mutliverse until kwannon and the marauders when to get her and put her in a body

Ogun is a Martial artist/sorcerer that died, now his ghost goes around possessing people and trolling wolverine

There was an alt universe betsy/lady mandarin who's ghost tried to posses Asian betsy and got stomped.

Esme and Sophie's ghost were hanging around the 3 in 1 cuckoos in Laura's last solo. Esme possessed gabby and Sophie possessed Laura and that was a whole mess, but a great book.

Xavier died in Avx but appeared as a ghost several times. In Xmen legacy, he came to help Legion when he lost control and was destroying the world, in Axis he was fighting red onslaught on the Astral plane and helped rogue fight the red skulls control. In Xmen gold he was appearing to Storm in the first few issues (who knows, maybe she was hallucinating)

Emma frost leaving her dying body to posses iceman, while Jean leaves her dying body to possess Emma should count I guess

There's this part of Xmen forever, where jeans consciousness is sent to days of the future past future, but since she's dead there, her ghost/Astral form possesses Rachel. Kind of similar I guess, reminds me of ghost Jean possessing Jeen and Rachel.

I love how they can use telekinesis and telepathy as ghosts it's really OP. Think about it. A vengeful Rachel Astral projects from earth to Shiar space and uses TK to snap the backs of the Shiar elders that ordered her family's murder. It has to be nerfed, because if Jean can Astral project from new York to Russia to braid storms hair, then there's really not much that can stop her if she puts her mind to it.

I saw the Legion of X preview up and noticed that Blindfold has decided to abandon her physical body and life as an Astral form/ghost. Which is pretty cool because a week ago we were talking about how telepaths can transcend above needing a physical form.

I realized that we have two new Astral dimensions now, the Ressurection room on Krakoa that Wanda made and the altar/sanctuary on mars that Legion made.

It would be cool if we had a plot of Xavier/Jean and a team of telepaths investigating these dimensions to be sure of their nature and how safe they are

[Daedra]

I saw the Legion of X preview up and noticed that Blindfold has decided to abandon her physical body and life as an Astral form/ghost. Which is pretty cool because a week ago we were talking about how telepaths can transcend above needing a physical form.

I realized that we have two new Astral dimensions now, the Ressurection room on Krakoa that Wanda made and the altar/sanctuary on mars that Legion made.

It would be cool if we had a plot of Xavier/Jean and a team of telepaths investigating these dimensions to be sure of their nature and how safe they are

You know this made me ponder…..As an omega level telepath jean should be doing stuff like this, lately there is no sense of wonder, scale or creativity when she uses her powers, it’s all so “by the books”

[Devaishwarya]

Hyerbole is a wonderful literary device.

[Gnostic]

She immediately goes Dark, so I don't know how else I'd characterize it... It certainly doesn't seem like an origin story to me. But we can disagree on that and live with it, right?

No. Jean was just dealing with PTSD symptoms throughout the movie. That is what her origin story in the comics was about. Even her leashing out at people is adapted from X-Men Origins: Jean Grey. She doesn't become Phoenix until at the very end of the movie and then she goes off into space to possibly eat a star (as shown in a future vision in X-Men: Apocalypse).

[Grinning Soul]

No. Jean was just dealing with PTSD symptoms throughout the movie. That is what her origin story in the comics was about. Even her leashing out at people is adapted from X-Men Origins: Jean Grey. She doesn't become Phoenix until at the very end of the movie and then she goes off into space to possibly eat a star (as shown in a future vision in X-Men: Apocalypse).

I've realized that, most of the times, what makes people disagree on the forums is how they see certain concepts. In other words, it's an issue of not agreeing on definitions.

It seems to me that our concept of an "origin story" is different. It also seems to me that you understood what I said and you just disagreed.

But I'm fine with it.

[Daedra]

Hyerbole is a wonderful literary device.

Indeed, I can see now why you use it all the time.

[Del torro]

You know this made me ponder…..As an omega level telepath jean should be doing stuff like this, lately there is no sense of wonder, scale or creativity when she uses her powers, it’s all so “by the books”

Yes, it's mostly communication she uses her telepathy for, and It gets boring, but I guess she hasn't really had any powerful telepath opponents to fight since HOXDOX.

But If you compare the fights Xavier and shadow king had in the 2019 astonishing xmen (using the Xmen to play chess, fighting on different levels of the Astral plane to fool each other, usi networks of minds all around the world, using proteus to affect the Astral plane and increase SKs power) it was interesting and had you guessing what was going to happen next, compared to Jean VS Cassandra also in 2019 (which was them just standing and blasting at each other's head and was anticlimactic).

I liked her confrontation with Nightmare, it was more visually interesting, and her teaching quentin and esme about the dream dimension in xforce.

I'm hoping she faces Echo or Druig or Sersi in a psychic battle in the upcoming crossover

[starduck]

I hope we get more focus on her telekinesis too

[Havok83]

The movie was meant to be a Jean/Phoenix origin story, not an adaptation of the whole Dark Phoenix Saga.

The movie is literally called Dark Phoenix. People knew what to expect by that alone. The synopsis doesnt even phrase it as a Jean origin story

The X-Men face their most formidable and powerful foe when one of their own, Jean Grey, starts to spiral out of control. During a rescue mission in outer space, Jean is nearly killed when she's hit by a mysterious cosmic force. Once she returns home, this force not only makes her infinitely more powerful, but far more unstable. The X-Men must now band together to save her soul and battle aliens that want to use Grey's new abilities to rule the galaxy.

Thats an abbreviated description of the DPS and thats what we saw, albeitely done terribly

[Gnostic]

The movie is literally called Dark Phoenix. People knew what to expect by that alone. The synopsis doesnt even phrase it as a Jean origin story


Thats an abbreviated description of the DPS and thats what we saw, albeitely done terribly

The synopsis mentions the outer space mission and Jean getting her powers enhanced by cosmic energy. Is that not an adaptation of the origin of the Phoenix depicted in UX-100-101?

You know about the 2017 movie titled IT based on the Stephen King novel of the same name? Despite the title, it wasn't an adaptation of the whole novel, just segments of it and the sequel adapted other segments of the novel. That was plan for Dark Phoenix.

[Havok83]

The synopsis mentions the outer space mission and Jean getting her powers enhanced by cosmic energy. Is that not an adaptation of the origin of the Phoenix depicted in UX-100-101?

You know about the 2017 movie titled IT based on the Stephen King novel of the same name? Despite the title, it wasn't an adaptation of the whole novel, just segments of it and the sequel adapted other segments of the novel. That was plan for Dark Phoenix.

That space mission also only takes place in the first 15 minutes and you ignore the remaining hour and half which is about her losing control and going Dark Phoenix

[Gnostic]

That space mission also only takes place in the first 15 minutes and you ignore the remaining hour and half which is about her losing control and going Dark Phoenix

Jean being the Dark Phoenix in the comics was about her becoming addicted to her drug-like power and seeking more of it. Jean losing control of her powers due to childhood trauma as shown in the movie was an adaptation of her comic backstory, complete with Xavier creating psychic barriers in her mind when she was a child.

If Jean was suppose to be the Dark Phoenix throughout the movie there wouldn't be any point to those substitute-Hellfire Club villains. And as I said earlier, the movie ended with Jean flying into space and I'm sure she would have eaten a star if the movie had gotten a sequel.

[WallStreeter]

Jean never got a real redemption story. They retconned her into not being Phoenix, but this created a huge mess. I think Jean needs to be the one to save the Shi’ar from some huge cosmic threat, whether Galactus or the next Phoenix host or Thanos or something else.

The Scarlet Witch made amends for decimation by putting 20 million mutant souls in the waiting room, so they can be resurrected.

[Mercury]

Jean being the Dark Phoenix in the comics was about her becoming addicted to her drug-like power and seeking more of it.

I respectfully disagree. She became Dark Phoenix after being groomed and violated by Jason Wyngarde, with the help of Emma Frost. Granted, using dynamics and aesthetics from his own world—i.e., the Hellfire Club—and his own ideology, which was based on elitism and forms of slavery, Wyngarde tapped into and catered his illusions to Jean's amorphous "innermost desires" for power and unbridled sexuality. For anyone, this would be a traumatizing experience, which could result in a disassociative breakdown.

Jean losing control of her powers due to childhood trauma as shown in the movie was an adaptation of her comic backstory, complete with Xavier creating psychic barriers in her mind when she was a child.

This bastardization of Jean's origins is probably what I take issue with most about the film. Jean was traumatized during her youth because she experienced and was unable to prevent the death of her best friend Annie Richardson. The emergence of her abilities never resulted in the unintentional killing of anyone, certainly not her parents. To some, the change may be insignificant, but then I would ask them: How would you feel if on a whim filmmakers changed the origins of Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne to have them accidentally kill a parent?

If Jean was suppose to be the Dark Phoenix throughout the movie there wouldn't be any point to those substitute-Hellfire Club villains. And as I said earlier, the movie ended with Jean flying into space and I'm sure she would have eaten a star if the movie had gotten a sequel.

As I've stated before, I enjoy the film as a sort of "What If...?" take on Jean's story and the Dark Phoenix Saga. I find aspects of it aesthetically pleasing and the performances moving. I thought Turner did a great job of capturing both Jean's strength and vulnerability, which is not easy to do. However, I don't consider it a proper adaptation of either the Dark Phoenix Saga or Jean as a character.