Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Exodus]

just wondering, are here also some queer Jean Grey fans or is this thread mainly dominated by straight cis women? Just curious. no shade...

[Phoenixx9]

Yeah, that "I was marvel girl, now I am jean grey", means like she's so ready to show her omega-ness again, like bigtime!

And the fact that she broke that guys arm, instead of just telepathically command them to leave make me think assume she's about to whoop some ass!

I thought i read somewhee that issue#12 is one of the jumping off point of AXE - where Eternals recognize that mutant evolution needs to be curtailed or something. COuld be wrong.

That's how I take it too.

The Eternals are all cosmically powered and so should be above most heroes in terms of power.

But I see Jean's Omega-Omega abilities as putting her on equal footing (or better) and I am optimistic we will see Jean shine!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I'm always both mystified and amazed by your thought processes and the conclusions your reach through them. To be clear, the line is, "I did not let even let the Phoenix command me." Moreover, how this line "takes Jean out of the Phoenix story" is a mystery to me.



Exactly.



haha! Well, overall, as long as one doesn't get hung up on the negativity here, which I can certainly be accused of doing, I think it's a great place to just share thoughts and opinions and spit out ideas for and facts and history about Jean, along with news, of course. Also...





Same, same, same!



I think the end of the issue will lead into the beginning of A.X.E., which officially starts in late-June, right after this issue. X-Men #13 has the Judgement Day tag on it, so I expect to see that, along with #14, be the issue that's focused most on that event.

It's pointing to how she was possessed by the Phoenix or how it was trying to control her, the objectively lesser interpretation of the Jean/Phoenix relationship. Just more effort to separate Jean from her legacy and any agency for the stories that happened with Jean as Phoenix. In the garbage it goes!

[Mercury]

just wondering, are here also some queer Jean Grey fans or is this thread mainly dominated by straight cis women? Just curious. no shade...

Not that it should matter, but I am a gay male. Also, I know for a fact that this thread isn't "mainly dominated by straight cis women," although I do value and look forward to their contributions just as much as I do any other demographic.

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

That's how I take it too.

The Eternals are all cosmically powered and so should be above most heroes in terms of power.

But I see Jean's Omega-Omega abilities as putting her on equal footing (or better) and I am optimistic we will see Jean shine!

Don't worry. The X-Men will whoop they Ass. There's not that many Eternals anyway and the only threat IMO is Sersi....(That's if Thanos or Uranus does not step in)

[Grinning Soul]

I can't speak for other fans or characters, but I think those Jean fans, like myself and perhaps MechaJeanix, that would like to see Jean single have enjoyed her time alone, specifically during her time-displacement arc and in X-Men Red. I also think they notice the fact that, for years, Scott and Logan have been afforded multiple opportunities to branch out romantically, which they have, and perhaps they'd like to see the same opportunities for Jean.

Mercury, I don't put every fan who don't want Jean to be together with whatever character in the same bag. I understand people see things differently and I'm okay with it. What bothers me is when people don't really have some specific reason other than a vague: "I just want her to be her own character" as if that was impossible unless she's by herself. I mean, people are entitled to feel whatever way they feel. What bothers me is this nagging feeling of what it means to them or if they've ever considered what that means.

But again: people see things differently, that's fine.

I certainly believe couples can be depicted both beautifully and intriguingly without sacrificing the agency and autonomy of each partner. However, in their history as a couple, it often feels like Jean sacrificed her needs and wants to be there for and support Scott. I mean, during X-Factor, she eventually gave up on trying to find her sister in order to help Scott save his son. Part of me completely understands her doing that, and I get that it was necessary in order to have her meet Madelyne and for their connection to be established.

However, realistically speaking, Jean's decision to stop looking for her sister to go off with Scott seemed odd. I think it was doubly odd that during a scene in X-Factor—they're in a plane—she says to Scott something to the effect of, "My sister is missing too, and I'd like to find her," to which he responds by quickly acknowledging it and then going back to talking about finding his son. I mean, her sister's house had been blown up while she and Scott were in it.

I've always read that as a matter of Jean not having a clue of where her sister could be at that moment. And without her telepathy, what could she, personally, do?

I read this often that Jean sacrificed her needs and wants to be there for Scott, but I could enumerate a number of instances in which she was making the decisions about stuff that either had an impact or concerned their relationship and that he accepted, regardless of how he felt about it. Not to mention all the times he stood in support for her. But honestly? I don't want to go there in this thread. I hope you understand.

[Grinning Soul]

Not that it should matter, but I am a gay male. Also, I know for a fact that this thread isn't "mainly dominated by straight cis women," although I do value and look forward to their contributions just as much as I do any other demographic.

I actually only know of 2 women, maybe 3, who post here. Myself included. I don't know of their orientation and I don't care. There's only one person whose orientation matters to me: my partner. Everyone else are fascinating humans to me. :)

[Mercury]

It's pointing to how she was possessed by the Phoenix or how it was trying to control her, the objectively lesser interpretation of the Jean/Phoenix relationship. Just more effort to separate Jean from her legacy and any agency for the stories that happened with Jean as Phoenix. In the garbage it goes!

Duggan has probably been the only writer during this era to highlight Jean's time as Phoenix as fundamental to her feelings and experiences. I appreciate that he has shown both how it impacted her negatively and positively by both traumatizing and strengthening her. He also, through descriptions for the artist, has been the only writer to acknowledge ALL of her eras, including her time displacement (see Scott's nightmare in X-Men #4).

[Mercury]

Mercury, I don't put every fan who don't want Jean to be together with whatever character in the same bag.

Oh, I know you don't!

I understand people see things differently and I'm okay with it. What bothers me is when people don't really have some specific reason other than a vague: "I just want her to be her own character" as if that was impossible unless she's by herself.

Frankly, I think some people think and say this for the reasons I listed. The fact of the matter is, Scott has been in two long-term relationships while Jean was "dead." Mind you, this is not an attack or criticism of him as a character; I'm just stating a fact. Some of Jean's fans would like to see her in another romantic dynamic, and not necessarily with Logan. As for me, I'm fluid—mercurial, if you will—and am happy with whatever dynamic into which they thrust Jean, just as long as they give us a sense of her agency and autonomy.

As for me, and as I've shared before, I'm noodling on a story centered on her, during which she goes off to do her own thing. Now that I think of it, it sort of touches upon what Rosenberg had planned for her at the end of Phoenix Resurrection. I don't know yet if it's going to result in her ending her relationship with Scott, but it is certainly a journey—a spiritual pilgrimage if you will—that doesn't involve him. It's about her.

I've always read that as a matter of Jean not having a clue of where her sister could be at that moment. And without her telepathy, what could she, personally, do?

She could've continued looking. Perhaps she could have even teamed up with the Avengers and Fantastic Four, both of whom aided and were extremely kind and supportive to her upon her return, so that they could help find her sister. She could have done a lot of things. Then again, I understand why the writers chose not to go that route. Even still, afterwards, her sister's death was confirmed rather unceremoniously, though I do appreciate the scene between Jean and her father that followed.

I read this often that Jean sacrificed her needs and wants to be there for Scott, but I could enumerate a number of instances in which she was making the decisions about stuff that either had an impact or concerned their relationship and that he accepted, regardless of how he felt about it. Not to mention all the times he stood in support for her. But honestly? I don't want to go there in this thread. I hope you understand.

Oh, he's often supported and been effusive in his love for her. But the simple fact is that writers have mostly had her defer to him when making decisions. This is partly why I make such a big deal of what both Duggan and Hickman did for her and with her during X of Swords. She took control while being there for Scott.

(I'll share the fourth page, which I have several times over on here, in the next post).

I actually only know of 2 women, maybe 3, who post here. Myself included. I don't know of their orientation and I don't care. There's only one person whose orientation matters to me: my partner. Everyone else are fascinating humans to me.

Exactly!

[Grinning Soul]

I'll look up a "best of" list or something. I'm intrigued. My mother loves him, both the comics and the recent show.

Your mother read comic books???

All right... I've read other fans suggesting to start with Frank Miller's run, then read the entire volume 2. And uh... okay, you'll be skipping quite some silly villains of the 60s and crazy stuff of the 70s, but Born Again - his DPS in terms of gravitas - can only be fully felt if you followed the soap opera with Karen and she's a character who appears in issue #1. And who I'd guess you'd love.

Also, I'm a fan of Chichester's run. Not so much the stories - they can be quite silly at times - but the mood and Matt's characterization. And that's also in volume 1.

Whatever you do, though, don't start in volume 3 or 4. That's Waid's run. Even if you read it eventually and you love it, I don't think it should be your first contact with the character.

But again, Mercury: don't do that to yourself. If you happen to be one of those people who gets Daredevil, you will absolutely *love* him and I don't think you have time for 2 twitter accounts. :P

[Mercury]

She pushed Scott to fight for their son, went against the Quiet Council’s (QC) orders and was removed, was offered reappointment to the QC by Xavier and Magneto and refused, AND was instrumental in founding the new X-Men team. Both Duggan and Hickman were the cause of that.

[Mercury]

Your mother read comic books???

Who do you think got me into comics in the first place! lol.

All right... I've read other fans suggesting to start with Frank Miller's run, then read the entire volume 2. And uh... okay, you'll be skipping quite some silly villains of the 60s and crazy stuff of the 70s, but Born Again - his DPS in terms of gravitas - can only be fully felt if you followed the soap opera with Karen and she's a character who appears in issue #1. And who I'd guess you'd love.

Also, I'm a fan of Chichester's run. Not so much the stories - they can be quite silly at times - but the mood and Matt's characterization. And that's also in volume 1.

Whatever you do, though, don't start in volume 3 or 4. That's Waid's run. Even if you read it eventually and you love it, I don't think it should be your first contact with the character.

I trust your judgment, so this is very helpful to me. Thank you!

But again, Mercury: don't do that to yourself. If you happen to be one of those people who gets Daredevil, you will absolutely *love* him and I don't think you have time for 2 twitter accounts. :P

Honestly—and I say this while admitting that Bruce Wayne is the man of my life—I don't think any other character outside of Jean can galvanize me to dedicate the time and energy that I do to her, lol.

[Grinning Soul]

Who do you think got me into comics in the first place! lol.

That is way too cool for words! :)

I trust your judgment, so this is very helpful to me. Thank you!

I mean... really: my actual suggestion is to read the whole thing. The stuff that happens in his life could be explained as a big consequence of what came before, from his very upbringing. It makes sense to see his character growing darker, when you realize there's been a darkness there from the start.

But who has time for that, right?

Reading from Frank Miller's on might be a good idea. You just won't get the whole impact - good and bad - of DD's most iconic story and its aftermath.

Honestly—and I say this while admitting that Bruce Wayne is the man of my life—I don't think any other character outside of Jean can galvanize me to dedicate the time and energy that I do to her, lol.

Matt just might... I'm warning you! :)

[Phoenixx9]

haha! Well, overall, as long as one doesn't get hung up on the negativity here, which I can certainly be accused of doing, I think it's a great place to just share thoughts and opinions and spit out ideas for and facts and history about Jean, along with news, of course. Also...

You always make me laugh!

[loke13]

just wondering, are here also some queer Jean Grey fans or is this thread mainly dominated by straight cis women? Just curious. no shade...

Definitely a gay man here