Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[butterflykyss]

Bloop!



(I know, I'm being clever, but you said adult Jean. ) X-Men: Blue #35. And, to be clear, the O5's time-displacement era has been established as canon, with the most recent case being Luciano Vecchio's wonderful Marvel Voices: Iceman Infinity Comic.

I thought that image was from an alternate timeline. have any canonical stories shown this yet, excluding teen jean of course.

[Mercury]

I thought that image was from an alternate timeline. have any canonical stories shown this yet, excluding teen jean of course.

Yes, it was an alternate future in which thing only thing "alternate" about it was the sequence of events following the O5's time displacement, i.e., they never went back to the past. However, their powers weren't being augmented by anything, neither a cosmic force nor others' "faith," for that matter.

Also, you know I respect and have affection for you, BFK, but please don't patronize me. You and I both know where you're trying to go with this. I mean, should I start pulling out Ororo feats she hasn't done in years or decades that you still consider within the realm of her capabilities...?

[Jeanspryde]

when has adult Jean demonstrated she can do pink form? what is the issue number? would love to read for myself..

She did that in X-Men Vol 2 #65 + 70

[5cents]

Bloop!

This is the direction I would like Jean to go in power wise. Where she develops her psychic form to Phoenix levels on her own.

[Mercury]

My point was that temptation and the possibility of slipping should always be a threat, much like striving to do better in light of the first time she cut lose and got some people killed should always be at her core.

I disagree, both with your assertion that "the possibility of [Jean] slipping should always be a threat" to her and with the notion that she simply "cut loose" during the Dark Phoenix Saga. Firstly, I want to see Jean pushed and challenged, provoked and compelled to fight. However, I also want to see her be deliberately ruthless and relentless when absolutely necessary rather than reflexively or impulsively. In addition, regarding the Dark Phoenix Saga, as Claremont noted, Jean suffered from "diminished capacity" after what Wyngarde did to her, and as I see it and is alluded to in the story, she was in a traumatized state.

It's not that she should be losing control every issue. In fact, it should be that she is in control, and weighing consequences, tempted to make a big splash in heightened critical moments. When push comes to shove, that spark of danger within her should be there, as it is in a Magneto, or a Wolverine, or a modern-day Xavier.

I pretty much agree with all of this. However, that "spark of danger" should be exhibited when necessary instead of being a constant in Jean's characterization. While she is known to have a temper and can be brutal if and when she's pushed far enough, she does not put on heirs, nor is she pompous, presumptuous, or boisterous. But, as they say, still waters run deep.

That said, I view Jean as currently in a transitional state. It's clear that until recently, she was, in some ways and for still unknown reasons, regressing, holding herself back, and knew it, whether consciously or not. This is evidenced most clearly in X-Men #4 and by the fact that she has chosen to undo her incongruous decision to revert to a uniform and moniker she had long ago renounced. Maybe Gillen and Duggan will touch upon this in the coming months.

A dramaless character isn't it. Superman is only popular as an idea, not something people actually read on an ongoing basis. Jean is a flawed human with godlike powers when they aren't dumbing her down and oversimplifying. When the character is in an ideal place, "Jean is so nice" is a facet, not the whole cube. And it's meaningless without the rest of the cube.

Jean is flawed, but then so are all human beings. However, I don't view her as being in a place where her vast powers tempt her to be destructive and hurt others. I think she resolved that issue during her time displacement. Then again, maybe I'm just deluding myself.



To the point, I believe she is currently conflicted over operating at optimal levels because she perhaps senses without knowing or wanting to know that, at the core of this Krakoan utopia, which they have all had a hand in building and for which they have all sacrificed some of their own desires and ideals, there is something profoundly wrong. And maybe, just maybe, she knows that this central incongruity stems from the two people that meant almost as much to her as her own parents: Charles and Moira.

In either case, enjoy the ride, Kitty/Phoenix Egg.

Typically, I would agree, since returning Jean has a not small track record of being incompetent in high intensity situations, or requiring support for tasks that should be in the realm of her capabilities. Again, not to harp but it's why Hickman's Jean remains a sore spot for me, he consistently placed limitations on her that he refused to do with other Omegas. In fact he used obstacles and barriers to demonstrate why they were Omega.

But here it's different at least for me, I'm in no way trying to shape your opinion. But when issues 11 & 12 are taken as a whole, Jean is even more impressive, formed a clear and concise plan based on previous information provided. Laid that plan out carefully and was able to move pieces and people around to ensure that she experienced the most minimal casualties involved. It's her sheer competence I enjoyed, she wasn't caught ill-prepped or ill-equipped, while multi-tasking.

Both issues position, Jean as the key to taking down Gameworld and Cordyceps Jones, without her the entire plan is not possible. The issue implies she started gathering Jones spores from the moment they arrives, and even with Rogue's assistance towards the end they were using Jean's power and we get visual confirmation that Jean is helping to direct her. While she had help the focus is on Jean's abilities while gathering Jones' spores was the end goal, her sheer power is what's highlighted. Plus, she was also projecting an illusion directly into Jones' mind while telekinetically imprisoning him and his spores, while psi-dampers and psi-alarms were in place. Then sent out a telepathic message to thousands of Gameworld inhabitants, all without breaking a sweat.

I enjoy seeing Jean used to her best, and I felt like while this series has a ways to go with developing personal stories for her, Duggan did a great job highlighting the qualities I love about the character.

This was so beautifully put. I couldn't have said it better.

[WallStreeter]

Jean doesn’t just have destructive power. She psychically healed Laura snd removed the trigger scent from her mind. An entire team of Omegas terraformed Mars and moved 15 million people. Jean removed spores from a sentinel fungus that was controlling people. Mutant powers these days are not just shown as destructive. They are creative.

[Mercury]

I stumbled upon this art on Twitter and tweeted the following:

This portrait is quite beautiful. While it can be interpreted as an erotic moment between lovers, it can also be viewed as an intimate snapshot of close friends caught in the liminal space between battle and rest, all three still taught from victory but surrendering to slumber.

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...61965488766976

[Portsian]

Much as I enjoyed xmen 12, anyone else irritated that the intro called her Marvel Girl, when her actions were entirely that of strong independent woman.

[Omega_DCD]

If/When Jean is connected with the Phoenix again, I want it to be an unmistakably "To me, my Phoenix!" moment(like Franklin/Galactus)...if not in those exact words, then certainly in framing and intent.

If I may nitpick...while I do appreciate the micro and macro scale of what Jean, and then Jean+Rogue, did with the spores all over Gameworld, i wish we could have gotten a few splashy multi-stage panels of something like, astral forms of Jean/Rogue shrinking down to spore size and reaching out with their TK...to complement the part of Jean explaining to Rogue that nothing is too big or heavy or too small, you just have to feel it...I dunno, I'm just a sucker for trippy psychic visuals during psychic feats.

*Edit* Think of something like the Silent "Psychic Rescue" issue from Morrison's run with the snowglobe and sperm and whatnot

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Much as I enjoyed xmen 12, anyone else irritated that the intro called her Marvel Girl, when her actions were entirely that of strong independent woman.

I haven't understood the Marvel Girl thing at all, and have disliked it since finding they associate it with her being a delicate damsel rather than an ostentatious Claremazon.

[butterflykyss]

She did that in X-Men Vol 2 #65 + 70

I dont think that was the pink form in the manner depicted in her teen solo book.

[andreikes]

I haven't understood the Marvel Girl thing at all, and have disliked it since finding they associate it with her being a delicate damsel rather than an ostentatious Claremazon.

I wonder if it's someone behind the writers who decide this (the costumes and names) or if it's them. How much does marvel give them creative freedom

[Mercury]

Jean doesn’t just have destructive power. She psychically healed Laura snd removed the trigger scent from her mind. An entire team of Omegas terraformed Mars and moved 15 million people. Jean removed spores from a sentinel fungus that was controlling people. Mutant powers these days are not just shown as destructive. They are creative.

Jean's power can certainly be extremely destructive, but it is good to note, as you have, that she has used it to heal others. Gentle comes to mind, too:

Much as I enjoyed xmen 12, anyone else irritated that the intro called her Marvel Girl, when her actions were entirely that of strong independent woman.

Not really. I mean, she's been intermittently referred to as both Marvel Girl and Jean Grey on the roster page throughout this run and in other books. The issues in which she is referred to as "Jean Grey" include X-Men #'s 1-3 and #5, after which she started being referred to as "Marvel Girl." I wonder if this was done to underscore her declaration in X-Men #11, i.e., when she says, "I was Marvel Girl. Now I am Jean Grey." In either case, I will ask and let you all know when I get a response.

If/When Jean is connected with the Phoenix again, I want it to be an unmistakably "To me, my Phoenix!" moment(like Franklin/Galactus)...if not in those exact words, then certainly in framing and intent.

Really, is there any other way a moment like this should be done?

If I may nitpick...while I do appreciate the micro and macro scale of what Jean, and then Jean+Rogue, did with the spores all over Gameworld, i wish we could have gotten a few splashy multi-stage panels of something like, astral forms of Jean/Rogue shrinking down to spore size and reaching out with their TK...to complement the part of Jean explaining to Rogue that nothing is too big or heavy or too small, you just have to feel it...I dunno, I'm just a sucker for trippy psychic visuals during psychic feats.

*Edit* Think of something like the Silent "Psychic Rescue" issue from Morrison's run with the snowglobe and sperm and whatnot

This is an excellent idea that Larraz would have executed beautifully. Frankly, I think the ladies deserved a little more page time or an entire issue dedicated to their mission. Anyway, those are small gripes. I'm pleased what we got.

I haven't understood the Marvel Girl thing at all, and have disliked it since finding they associate it with her being a delicate damsel rather than an ostentatious Claremazon.

Based on what she dreams and says in X-Men #4 and #11, respectively, and touching on what I wrote to you in my previous reply, I think there's definitely a reason for going back to "Marvel Girl," both by name and in appearance. And I have a hunch this is an aspect of her arc that we will continue to be given insights into, perhaps culminating with Gillen's issue centered on her. I plan on asking about this too.

I dont think that was the pink form in the manner depicted in her teen solo book.

The bottom line is this: Jordan D. White has confirmed that psionic energy absorption, i.e., "pink form," is still within Jean's capabilities, but she's chosen not to use it, which could be tied to what I've written about above. Moreover, as I've already pointed out, the O5's time displacement is considered canon and has most recently been referred to in Luciano Vecchio's Marvel Voices: Iceman Infinity Comic. In short, adult Jean remembers and is capable of doing what her time-displaced teenage self did. After all, they are the same person.

I wonder if it's someone behind the writers who decide this (the costumes and names) or if it's them. How much does marvel give them creative freedom

It was Hickman who chose to have Jean revert to the Marvel Girl garb and moniker.

[Starchilde]

I'm giving Exodus and Gillen the side eye after today's IXM, don't get me excited for AXE only to swerve us with a Phoenix powered Exodus.

I didn't noticed he was being Phoenix-powered! lol When are writers going to stop giving her stuff to their current favorite character for gods sake.

[WallStreeter]

I didn't noticed he was being Phoenix-powered! lol When are writers going to stop giving her stuff to their current favorite character for gods sake.

I am not quite willing to say he was Phoenix powered. Yes, he had a fiery aura and weird speech bubbles. But he was powered by trillions of believers that supercharged him into being a cosmic being. Sinister says it himself. And that point Exodus would not need the Phoenix.