Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[WallStreeter]

Do you understand what conjecture is? Im not saying my interpretation is absolute truth. But given the undermining Jean’s character often goes thru with statments like I cant do this for long or i dont know if I can do x or y whenever she has to do something, this panel of her sweating and what looks like struggling fits with this. Most of the other omegas just to do their stuff without this undertone of weakness and being unsure of oneself.

That’s what it looks like to me from this panel. If you dont see it fine, move on. Stop trying to censor people on a discussion board jeeze.

But you deliberately went to the worst case scenario without considering any other context.

The reason why I point something like this out because it can affect the group discussion some pretty negative ways. Jean is getting a lot more coverage and action than she used to, important actions and that gets lost when people are not honest as to what’s happening. Whether any of us like something or not is a different matter.

[Exodus]

But you deliberately went to the worst case scenario without considering any other context.

The reason why I point something like this out because it can affect the group discussion some pretty negative ways. Jean is getting a lot more coverage and action than she used to, important actions and that gets lost when people are not honest as to what’s happening. Whether any of us like something or not is a different matter.

that's also true. Everything coming from promotional material indicates that Jean fans are really in for a treat.

[Tank]

I get where you are coming from. I agree. It happens a lot with her. I think it is a combination of gender bias and her psychic abilities. It is somehow a cliché that people with mental abilities collapse and loose their conciousness. It happens all the time in pop culture. But when it come to Jean I guess it has also a lot to do with gender bias.

Yep this too. I wish it would change

[Tank]

But you deliberately went to the worst case scenario without considering any other context.

The reason why I point something like this out because it can affect the group discussion some pretty negative ways. Jean is getting a lot more coverage and action than she used to, important actions and that gets lost when people are not honest as to what’s happening. Whether any of us like something or not is a different matter.

I’d be happy to be wrong, but it’s not detrimental to discuss the possibility of this is an undermining moment given the character’s depictions before.

And I dont see it as a negative thing. If no one brings attention to it as an issue then why would it ever change? I know The odds of it changing based on a forum post are slim to none, but at least it’s not ignoring it completely and thinking it’s alright.

Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but there is nothing wrong with discussing the implications of the scene as presented here.

[WallStreeter]

I get where you are coming from. I agree. It happens a lot with her. I think it is a combination of gender bias and her psychic abilities. It is somehow a cliché that people with mental abilities collapse and loose their conciousness. It happens all the time in pop culture. But when it come to Jean I guess it has also a lot to do with gender bias.

If something looks like it’s going to be a huge feat any character would strain. I would say there gender bias in having her faint that much in the XMen animated series, she she certainly fainted more than Xavier(this is an issue of psychic with both sexes).

But going up against the Eternals? This would strain any mutant, if they didn’t get killed. Jean is also facing up against Thanos’s homicidal grandfather.

What’s cool about this. Jean finally had to use the pink powers teen Jean developed. Finally Jen’s legacy is shown as development in a meaningful way.

[WallStreeter]

I’d be happy to be wrong, but it’s not detrimental to discuss the possibility of this is an undermining moment given the character’s depictions before.

And I dont see it as a negative thing. If no one brings attention to it as an issue then why would it ever change? I know The odds of it changing based on a forum post are slim to none, but at least it’s not ignoring it completely and thinking it’s alright.

Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but there is nothing wrong with discussing the implications of the scene as presented here.

On whether it should change depends on the context. On massive feats all characters shown strain. Now if Jean is currently shown straining to do everything, if that were case and it changed I would say wonderful.

But is that the case? I don’t recall her straining in XMen one under Duggan at all. Even what happened Teo years ago is not relevant to how she is actually written.

And and all, if someone is genuinely a Jean fan looks like they got s good summer ahead for them. Good fall too.

[Tank]

Lol this relevant

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfH1F...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[MechaJeanix]

The X-men 13 images are exciting. I can't wait to see what happens. Jean is going to have an important and central role in a major crossover event and I am here for it. I do want Jean to have decent action scenes, at least a few cool uses of her powers, but I do I want her (and others) to struggle. While I agree Jean isn't always shown with the gravitas that Storm, Magneto, or Legion are often shown.. (Duggan has done very well with showing she's a powerful mutant) I do find it more interesting when our heroes have to struggle and when they are put through major challenges. I want Jean to have an omega mutant moment or two of course, but I don't want things to be too easy for her. The Eternals are very powerful and these monsters shouldn't be defeated easily.

I also can't wait to see who are the other members of her team. I am glad this team will be rocky compared to the first year team. We definitely could use some conflict.

I don't know if we'll see a return of the pink form, but it would be nice to see it or some variation of it. I don't know if Jean will interact with the phoenix in this event (other than maybe interact or fight near Echo) and while it would be nice for Jean to touch the Phoenix in some way, but even if we don't get that I think this is going to be a fun event. Jean being on the front lines is enough for me to enjoy this story.

Crossovers can be tedious at times (as much as I enjoyed X of Swords I was over it a little over half way through) but I am excited for this one.

[andreikes]

Lol this relevant

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfH1F...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Sue and Jean.

When they are controlled by an evil person, they don't even feel tired

[Devaishwarya]

I really enjoyed how well the last team fit together so I hope there isn't too much conflict. The contrived foolishness can get in the way of good storytelling. Plus conflict is not equal to charactersation. The less drama the better for me.

[MechaJeanix]

Conflict doesn't have to equal foolishness or generic soap opera antics. I'm a leader at work - my department has over 200 employees and I can safely say we have conflict almost every day. It is just something humans do and especially when you consider group dynamics (due to various personalities, power dynamics, etc.). While it was nice that the last group got along so well the team was sort of missing that hot headed character or the character that doesn't really work well together or doesn't like being a team player. It was missing the dynamic of someone like Wolverine or Emma Frost imo. Sunfire could have been that character and I admit though it was nice that he has grown.

Groups are also highly fragile and tend to split and splinter. I think of the activism community in my local area.. always arguing with each other and splintering into new groups... a constant of change but also a lot of conflict.

Conflict can also be good for a group if it is constructive and allows members to debate and hash out differences instead of side stepping issues. I would love to see how Jean handles a difficult team or conflict between team members. It could be interesting not only for the team but also for Jean and Scott.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I wouldn't hold my breath on the pink form thing, guys until it's on a page. I doubt they are about to strip Jean's Phoenix legacy completely just to give her something different that makes her noticeably powerful. Defeats the purpose of banning the Phoenix from her mythos.

Reading today's X-Men Monday article, it seems like Gillen's special Jean issue will be about her saying what happened to the dbari doesn't affect her anymore because of what Rogue said to her in X-Men #12.

Conflict doesn't have to equal foolishness or generic soap opera antics. I'm a leader at work - my department has over 200 employees and I can safely say we have conflict almost every day. It is just something humans do and especially when you consider group dynamics (due to various personalities, power dynamics, etc.). While it was nice that the last group got along so well the team was sort of missing that hot headed character or the character that doesn't really work well together or doesn't like being a team player. It was missing the dynamic of someone like Wolverine or Emma Frost imo. Sunfire could have been that character and I admit though it was nice that he has grown.

Groups are also highly fragile and tend to split and splinter. I think of the activism community in my local area.. always arguing with each other and splintering into new groups... a constant of change but also a lot of conflict.

Conflict can also be good for a group if it is constructive and allows members to debate and hash out differences instead of side stepping issues. I would love to see how Jean handles a difficult team or conflict between team members. It could be interesting not only for the team but also for Jean and Scott.

Yeah, I don't think I want stories without conflict, having experienced this latest X-Men volume.

[Tank]

I wouldn't hold my breath on the pink form thing, guys until it's on a page. I doubt they are about to strip Jean's Phoenix legacy completely just to give her something different that makes her noticeably powerful. Defeats the purpose of banning the Phoenix from her mythos.

Reading today's X-Men Monday article, it seems like Gillen's special Jean issue will be about her saying what happened to the dbari doesn't affect her anymore because of what Rogue said to her in X-Men #12.



Yeah, I don't think I want stories without conflict, having experienced this latest X-Men volume.

I’m optimistically hoping Gillen will reaffirm her special connection with the phoenix and but also she doesn’t necessarily need it. Similar to what bobbysworld has suggested while allowing whatever character of the week, robot, chicken, dinosaur or whatever to get the force so they can try and force an artificial importance on said character.
If not, why bring it up now when the connection was mostly not mentioned?

Who knows though, but back n forth is she or isnt she can be exhausting. Hoping for the best, and normally expect the worst given Marvel’s track record of not following their own continuity so it fits whatever storyline they are trying to tell. But at least Gillen is a thoughtful, careful, intelligent writer so there is some hope.

[Lukmendes]

I was just following her IG because, "hey, attractive redhead woman, why not follow?" but then...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfhIYGWp...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Never thought about this before, but modeling looks highly uncomfortable.

It definitely is, since they have to keep looking pretty and fit before they take pictures lol.

The XMen would never let their council die.

To be fair, the only real loss if the entire Council dies would be Hope, since it'd delay further resurrections for a bit lol.

Why is Jean the only omega who has to be shown struggling or sweating to do stuff? Everyone else does stuff effortlessly and I can already hear the top preview panel “ughh Scott i dont know how long I can do this for…” the constant undermining of her is exhausting.


You never seen these sort of depictions with Magneto, Storm, Iceman, hell even Kid Omega.

It also doesnt bode well that the writer with seemingly the most stuff in store for her isnt even the writer she is stuck with…

I get the impression she's fighting that giant robot while an Eternal is using telepathy on her, if so, maybe that's less bad?

Time skips are a lazy writers way of getting to where they want without having to write it out imo.

Yeah, it was a problem with Hickman's run, but he introduced a bunch of interesting stuff, though it still sucks we don't see how it got there, specially considering how a bunch of characters were characterized... But hey, again, cool stuff was introduced at least.

Too bad Cates' Hulk and Wells' ASM don't do anything like that, they both do time skips that make the characters annoyingly miserable when the previous story ended on a happier note, and to make it worse the stories themselves after the time skips are boring, yay...

My avatar is by Lukas Werneck fromAXE #3.

Thanks.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I’m optimistically hoping Gillen will reaffirm her special connection with the phoenix and but also she doesn’t necessarily need it. Similar to what bobbysworld has suggested while allowing whatever character of the week, robot, chicken, dinosaur or whatever to get the force so they can try and force an artificial importance on said character.
If not, why bring it up now when the connection was mostly not mentioned?

Who knows though, but back n forth is she or isnt she can be exhausting. Hoping for the best, and normally expect the worst given Marvel’s track record of not following their own continuity so it fits whatever storyline they are trying to tell. But at least Gillen is a thoughtful, careful, intelligent writer so there is some hope.

As Duggan alluded to, I think they are doing a story about Jean no longer feeling like she owes something for the DPS. Mileage may vary on whether that's something that should be undone and whether that is worth an issue. But the characters are being "judged". I'm guessing Jean survives judgment because of not feeling guilty about the Phoenix/not being associated with it anymore. That's my guess as far as what Jean's portion of the AXE: X-Men issue is about.

It definitely is, since they have to keep looking pretty and fit before they take pictures lol.

Yep, the dieting restrictions probably aren't easy lol