Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Omega_DCD]

Engaging reply

I appreciate the detailed and thoughtful reply, and I wish I could do the same at the moment, but as i am limited to my cell phone and the CBR forum is very mobile-unfriendly, unless im doing something drastically wrong...it's a slug to pre-write in my note app, insert quote breaks point by point, copy&paste it into the brower reply, etc, even worse when i want to add pics to illustrate my points...unless i truly have the time. So if I don't get the time to flesh this out, I'll condense things down to simply I understand, but I don't agree.


(*) Jean being more informed...I specifically didn't mention any White Phoenix stuff because, as this and Phoenix Resurrection made clear, Jean doesn't have any memories of that. Death even says to himself in CXM #43 that Jean/Phoenix won't remember what she's learned and will have to do so the hard way. The point is whatever Jean DOES know regarding the Phoenix....it's more than Quentin. As least you do share the same repulsion towards QQ's presence there and coming up with the solution. Whatever it does FOR Quentin, it inadvertently takes something AWAY from Jean. These kinds of "ignoring the obvious choice" reminds me of AxV, with them having to go as far as literally have Rachel question why the hell no one (neither the X-Men or the Avengers) is consulting her considering how well and how long she was a Phoenix host.

(*)
Our opinions here irreconcilably differ, so I'll just post this funny quip from the show "Living Single". This is Maxine acting as "mediator" in her signature way.

"Regine, your feelings are hurt because Khadijah accused you of lying."

"Khadijah, you accused Regine of lying because she liessssss, yeah."

It ends up that Regine didn't lie(in this case)

From my POV Jean, isn't wrong to throw the accusation at Emma because Emma's reputation always precedes her. So regardless of what Emma's actual reason for hiding it there was, It would be on brand for her to be just that petty.


(*) (1)It doesn't matter which Jean Emma is referring to...I, as a reader, don't particularly enjoy the title character getting repeatedly insulted

(2) Me listing two examples doesn't state that they are directly related to each other, but how I as a reader react to them

(3) What's the expression? Thanks, I hate it. There's been enough digs and barbs thrown at Adult Jean, Teen Jean, Dead Jean from Emma and/or her Cuckoos(please don't point out that they come for Emma on a regular basis as well...not my point) in the post-Morrison era up to Jean's solo that again, I as a reader, didn't need it or want it in a series that is supppsed to spotlight a favorite character of mine. I got it plenty in ANXM, Uncanny, XMB, etc. That doesn't dictate what anyone else was supposed to take from the series, just my own feelings.

[Rift]

Interview

Jordan: Scott and Jean are a married couple and they are extremely close. I think this is a really interesting and telling look into their extremely personal, intimate life. They’re not just colleagues. They work on the X-Men together, so a lot of times we see them just talking as they punch someone or whatnot. But they are a husband and wife and they love each other and they help each other through hardships, difficult decisions, and difficult moments in time. There is a real intimate closeness that entails. And, you know, sometimes it’s in the privacy of their bedroom. So yeah, Gerry [Duggan] wanted to reflect that and Kris Anka is a great artist to depict that kind of scene. He nailed it.

Jottscemma?

Jordan: I think that despite some rough times between Scott and Emma, there remains a deep connection and a deep trust. And I think that, like I said about the beginning of the issue, the deep trust and intimacy between Scott and Jean means that if he feels that strongly about Emma, Jean’s on board and she believes in her and trusts her too. Is that trust 100% earned? That remains to be seen. Emma has done some questionable things and my guess would be she will continue to do so, but they generally seem to be on the side of good and mutantkind in many ways. So that is why Scott feels comfortable trusting her, and the same in reverse.

Emma was furious at Scott at the start of this issue and with good reason. I mean, he acted on behalf of all mutantkind, basically without talking to the Quiet Council or consulting anyone. It’s an unelected council, so it’s sort of hard to say if that really makes him any better or worse than them, but there you are. That’s why she was understandably upset, but because of the history they share and because of the closeness that they share, when he actually talked to her about the reason and through a little bit of trickery thanks to Jon Hamm, she was able to understand better. And because she knows that he trusts her, she decided to trust him as well with the biggest secret she was keeping. So now Scott and Jean are in on the Moira secret as well.

And stuff from Judgment Day

[Micabe]

Interview



And stuff from Judgment Day

Nice... Tomorrow, yes? Hey, Wait?!? Is that Iceman under that Dragon's(?) neck? How high in the air is he?
How big is that Dragon

[Tank]

Don't like the wrong coloring of her outfit.....it needs yellow, otherwise she looks like a frog...

Agreed and that face lol. Im going to miss Pepe and Javier.

[Rift]

A summary of Jean this week.

How big is that Dragon

The monsters' concept art gives us an idea of their scale. I think that's the Empire State Building.

[Tank]

Interview



And stuff from Judgment Day

CF villa’s art here looks freaking gorgeous.

My thoughts on the hellfire gala and how it relates to Jean:

So Jean and Scott trust Emma more than Storm and Nightcrawler? Yeah I dont buy that. And there’s no way storm wouldnt have told Jean about Moira. Same with Jean telling Storm about Stasis.

This reeks of Duggan shoehorning Emma into the narrative but it’s breaking because other characters would have made more sense.

And once again instead of seeing Jean’s disappointment or anger at being kept in the dark and how she handles it, we get 3rd hand character development via Cyclops saying it will be hard on her.

Meh.

[Omega_DCD]

.

And once again instead of seeing Jean’s disappointment or anger at being kept in the dark and how she handles it, we get 3rd hand character development via Cyclops saying it will be hard on her.

Meh.

Yeah, add the fact that Jean is the one with the actual connection/relationship to Moira moreso than Scott, having known her/worked with her since she was a child before the formation of the X-Men, having spent time with her on Muir Island twice while mourning, and having made her and Xavier's "last moment" possible

[andreikes]

CF villa’s art here looks freaking gorgeous.

My thoughts on the hellfire gala and how it relates to Jean:

So Jean and Scott trust Emma more than Storm and Nightcrawler? Yeah I dont buy that. And there’s no way storm wouldnt have told Jean about Moira. Same with Jean telling Storm about Stasis.

This reeks of Duggan shoehorning Emma into the narrative but it’s breaking because other characters would have made more sense.

And once again instead of seeing Jean’s disappointment or anger at being kept in the dark and how she handles it, we get 3rd hand character development via Cyclops saying it will be hard on her.

Meh.

But in this era when Jean and Storm had a good development?
I wish I had seen Jean's reaction to knowing the whole truth and not Cyke saying how she was going to feel

[Exodus]

that's a really good point. I would have liked to see Jean's reaction also. But also a scene where Jean speaks to her closest allies at the Council: Storm & Nightcrawler. They are family to her. The Council is not entirely evil and corrupted. Why is there no interactions between Jean and her peers?!?!

[Tank]

that's a really good point. I would have liked to see Jean's reaction also. But also a scene where Jean speaks to her closest allies at the Council: Storm & Nightcrawler. They are family to her. The Council is not entirely evil and corrupted. Why is there no interactions between Jean and her peers?!?!

And im so confused, did Jean already know about Moira because before scott is told Wolverine is talking to her telepathically and just casually mentions Moira and sends asks Jean to have Greycrow track Moira. Again if Jean didnt know i would have expected some sort of reaction.

If she does know, when did she find out?

As for why the other council members arent involved? I blame Duggan. He apparently was thinks Scott and Jean would only trust Emma. Not Nightcrawler, not kitty, not Storm. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Celestialbodies]

Good week for Jean. She slept with her husband in front of a window. Then Emma says that Jean is missed on the Council, and extoles Jean's strengths

EDIT: Links aren't working. Here. Freaking Webp.

https://i.imgur.com/ZVwChQf.png
https://i.imgur.com/Xs5UuLS.png
https://i.imgur.com/xVHKgOt.png

She didn't have much to do, but I enjoyed how she was used in the issues this week, from showing the intimacy between Scott and Jean. Telepathically, casting an illusion mere feet away from Emma without her being none the wiser, and the shoutout from Emma in Immortal was a nice touch as was her minor conversation with Synch.

I can't wait until we get an issue like Immortal 4 with Jean, where a writer truly invests in her inner machinations and how she applies her abilities.

AIPT also gave us Jean pics.

I'm honestly surprised by Cassara's work here, everything looks so bright and shiny, a complete different vibe to X-force.

CF villa’s art here looks freaking gorgeous.

My thoughts on the hellfire gala and how it relates to Jean:

So Jean and Scott trust Emma more than Storm and Nightcrawler? Yeah I dont buy that. And there’s no way storm wouldnt have told Jean about Moira. Same with Jean telling Storm about Stasis.

This reeks of Duggan shoehorning Emma into the narrative but it’s breaking because other characters would have made more sense.

And once again instead of seeing Jean’s disappointment or anger at being kept in the dark and how she handles it, we get 3rd hand character development via Cyclops saying it will be hard on her.

Meh.

This era has been great for Emma, but so much of her "developments" feel forced, I don't understand why the core X-men aren't more invested in the machinations occurring on the council. Emma has been used as the defacto voice of the "X-men" but it doesn't feel earned. Especially, when characters who would historically interact, don't however their investing all their trust into Emma, which doesn't ring completely true. Where are the moments like Storm, Beast, Jean, and Cyclops meeting to discuss Xavier's decision making around the Onslaught saga?

And im so confused, did Jean already know about Moira because before scott is told Wolverine is talking to her telepathically and just casually mentions Moira and sends asks Jean to have Greycrow track Moira. Again if Jean didnt know i would have expected some sort of reaction.

If she does know, when did she find out?

As for why the other council members arent involved? I blame Duggan. He apparently was thinks Scott and Jean would only trust Emma. Not Nightcrawler, not kitty, not Storm. Absolutely ridiculous.

Great point, I love that Wolverine trusted Jean with this information, as usually Emma is the go to. But I feel like a conversation was missing. Exactly when did Jean find out about Moira, and if the Gala was her first time finding out. She truly deserved a moment of reflection, it is weird to me Emma has a more visceral reaction to the happenings of Moira than the other senior members. Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus being members of the council I expected to see reflections.

[andreikes]

She didn't have much to do, but I enjoyed how she was used in the issues this week, from showing the intimacy between Scott and Jean. Telepathically, casting an illusion mere feet away from Emma without her being none the wiser, and the shoutout from Emma in Immortal was a nice touch as was her minor conversation with Synch.

I can't wait until we get an issue like Immortal 4 with Jean, where a writer truly invests in her inner machinations and how she applies her abilities.



I'm honestly surprised by Cassara's work here, everything looks so bright and shiny, a complete different vibe to X-force.




This era has been great for Emma, but so much of her "developments" feel forced, I don't understand why the core X-men aren't more invested in the machinations occurring on the council. Emma has been used as the defacto voice of the "X-men" but it doesn't feel earned. Especially, when characters who would historically interact, don't however their investing all their trust into Emma, which doesn't ring completely true. Where are the moments like Storm, Beast, Jean, and Cyclops meeting to discuss Xavier's decision making around the Onslaught saga?








Great point, I love that Wolverine trusted Jean with this information, as usually Emma is the go to. But I feel like a conversation was missing. Exactly when did Jean find out about Moira, and if the Gala was her first time finding out. She truly deserved a moment of reflection, it is weird to me Emma has a more visceral reaction to the happenings of Moira than the other senior members. Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus being members of the council I expected to see reflections.

Especially since they are my linked to Prof Xavier's dreams. It's really weird how they don't care, especially Storm.
But there was the X Lives thing by wolvie, I think Jean knows about Moira there (something)
Is Emma, ​​who is the coldest and most calculating, the one who is feeling restless the most?
I know Emma's development for this era is very important but it sounds forced.

[Celestialbodies]

Especially since they are my linked to Prof Xavier's dreams. It's really weird how they don't care, especially Storm.
But there was the X Lives thing by wolvie, I think Jean knows about Moira there (something)
Is Emma, ​​who is the coldest and most calculating, the one who is feeling restless the most?
I know Emma's development for this era is very important but it sounds forced.

I feel like a lot of this is based in Hickman's era, he's a huge Emma fan and decided to cast her as the foil to Charles and Erik and there in lines the problem. 1. I don't think Emma would have fully trusted either of them, given her past and her very real experiences with mutant paradises. 2. I don't find it believable that Emma is the foil, if anything I would have expected her to be fully on-board while also carefully making her own moves.


I also feel that these revelations would hit harder if it wasn't Emma, I feel like you cast someone like Storm in that role who had extensive relationships with both Charles and Erik it would have had more ripples. But currently, it simply feels like Emma is casually in the middle of things, without a rhyme or reason the writers just want her there.

[SugarMan]

Agree to all of the comments above. It’s up to the current writers to know these characters and how their relationships should and have worked. Shoehorning in your “favorite” just doesn’t work. Marvel needs to have some standards or guidelines for its established characters. Or at least explain it when something is out of character. Because even though it’s all fantasy, readers aren’t stupid.

[MarvelMaster616]

A summary of Jean this week.


The monsters' concept art gives us an idea of their scale. I think that's the Empire State Building.

Jean had a historically great week.