Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[WallStreeter]

Didn't she also state her firepowers were a result of the Otherworld armor?

She said OtherWorld brought back the power. The armor was created at the same time, apparently.

She has been to OtherWorld before, and I guess it reset her name to what she was. Rachel upon her return from the future displayed Phoenix powers until the fragment left jer just before the Messiah War. Plus the Mother Askani displaced those powers too.

[jwatson]

Rachel’s flames and fiery aura were always either because she was Phoenix or she had Phoenix powers when she officially wasn’t the Phoenix.

Decades of history on that.

She’s being called Askani. As the Mother Askani she had Phoenix powers, even after the force left her.

Most because you like something doesn’t make it true. It’s like covering up your eyes, so you don’t have to see something.

In fact, she was Phoenix in Excalibur in the 80s and 90s, which is why they decided to give her those powers back.

By that logic this seems like an admittance that Jean's dress was used to make her far less powerful than she normally is. Either by regression but usually by someone placing blocks on her.
Though i guess at this point the council has done so much perhaps blocks were put on Jean so she too wouldn't cross the line as precog as an omega telepath. What if she accidentally picked up all moira's thoughts. thinking about it omega telepath is the most poorly defined ability especially with psy dampeners. The way every other omega power works so far in pushing limits shouldn't Jean be communicating with computers now, telling psy dampeners to turn off etc.

[Tank]

Rachel’s flames and fiery aura were always either because she was Phoenix or she had Phoenix powers when she officially wasn’t the Phoenix.

Decades of history on that.

She’s being called Askani. As the Mother Askani she had Phoenix powers, even after the force left her.

Most because you like something doesn’t make it true. It’s like covering up your eyes, so you don’t have to see something.

In fact, she was Phoenix in Excalibur in the 80s and 90s, which is why they decided to give her those powers back.

Except as we know she’s not going by phoenix nor is she using the phoenix force because Echo is phoenix and is using the phoenix force. Flame signature does not equal phoenix and it has already been stated the way her powers are manifesting is a result of otherworld so why do you keep going around saying she’s phoenix again?

Just cuz you want something to be true doesnt mean it is despite everything telling you it’s not.

[Tank]

By that logic this seems like an admittance that Jean's dress was used to make her far less powerful than she normally is. Either by regression but usually by someone placing blocks on her.
Though i guess at this point the council has done so much perhaps blocks were put on Jean so she too wouldn't cross the line as precog as an omega telepath. What if she accidentally picked up all moira's thoughts. thinking about it omega telepath is the most poorly defined ability especially with psy dampeners. The way every other omega power works so far in pushing limits shouldn't Jean be communicating with computers now, telling psy dampeners to turn off etc.

The way Hickman wrote her and especially in HoX I thought for sure Jean was brainwashed or reset to an earlier time. It was that jarring from any of her recent depictions.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Rachel's codename will proably be Askani, the people of otherworld are constantly calling her Askani and Mother and the Data page also did. She looks amazing with her fire.

Well that's one ship being righted.

But poor Jean.

[WallStreeter]

Except as we know she’s not going by phoenix nor is she using the phoenix force because Echo is phoenix and is using the phoenix force. Flame signature does not equal phoenix and it has already been stated the way her powers are manifesting is a result of otherworld so why do you keep going around saying she’s phoenix again?

Just cuz you want something to be true doesnt mean it is despite everything telling you it’s not.

Where did I say she was called Phoenix?

I said as Askani, she always uses Phoenix powers. That is what is happening in Excalibur. That you hate it is your problem, because I don’t publish these books. Rachel got restored to what she was. It is what it is.

[Tank]

Where did I say she was called Phoenix?

I said as Askani, she always uses Phoenix powers. That is what is happening in Excalibur. That you hate it is your problem, because I don’t publish these books. Rachel got restored to what she was. It is what it is.

Rachel has her Phoenix powers back and looks like her codename will be Phoenix. The data caption even refers to as a Phoenix host.

Now let’s see if Jean gets her codename back, as well as her own Phoenix powers.

You jump to the conclusion that she’s going be called Phoenix despite the flame powers being otherworld related, the phoenix is with Echo and echo is currently named Phoenix. Echo is the only one with phoenix powers currently.

[jwatson]

The way Hickman wrote her and especially in HoX I thought for sure Jean was brainwashed or reset to an earlier time. It was that jarring from any of her recent depictions.

I actually admit jean is one of the characters coming out this era with no definable place. Still doesn't make sense to me why you can't be on the council but be an X-men especially since they vote on them which would actually give the council some semblance of popularity but you can be in charge of resurrections and on it which i would argue conflicts more. One is an image and the other you literally have the lives and minds of your citizens in your hand. And if hope powers to connect to mutants like her five lights transfer over in any way what kind of devotion may that cause. But it is what it is i guess.

[Tank]

I actually admit jean is one of the characters coming out this era with no definable place. Still doesn't make sense to me why you can't be on the council but be an X-men especially since they vote on them which would actually give the council some semblance of popularity but you can be in charge of resurrections and on it which i would argue conflicts more. One is an image and the other you literally have the lives and minds of your citizens in your hand. And if hope powers to connect to mutants like her five lights transfer over in any way what kind of devotion may that cause. But it is what it is i guess.

Exactly. Jean cant be on council and have her own team but multiple other people are doing it? Or have other things going on? Makes 0 sense.

Oh and dont get me started on Xavier going to Emma of all people to help with Moira during Inferno instead of Jean, Cyclops and or Storm. It was one of many decisions that doesnt make sense on closer scrutiny other than Emma is Hickman’s pet character. Same with Jean and Cyke saying they only trust Emma with the information about Stasis because Duggan is obsessed with Emma. Not Storm, not Nightcrawler, not Kitty? For real? That had my eyes rolling and just sours the narrative for me.

The great thing about the xmen is their interpersonal relationships and when that is ignored and it just breaks the line for me. It just makes the interactions feel off. We also never got much of a reaction from Storm
Or kitty or kurt ot anyone else not named Emma over being kept in the dark. I expected one from Jean as well.

[loke13]

I actually admit jean is one of the characters coming out this era with no definable place. Still doesn't make sense to me why you can't be on the council but be an X-men especially since they vote on them which would actually give the council some semblance of popularity but you can be in charge of resurrections and on it which i would argue conflicts more. One is an image and the other you literally have the lives and minds of your citizens in your hand. And if hope powers to connect to mutants like her five lights transfer over in any way what kind of devotion may that cause. But it is what it is i guess.

Wasn't the whole point of creating the X-Men was to have a military body that wasn't beholden to the Council? Kind of a moot point though since they offered Jean her seat back if she wanted it but she refused so I think the whole "can't be an X-Men and on the Council" was just the council being salty at the time.

[jwatson]

Wasn't the whole point of creating the X-Men was to have a military body that wasn't beholden to the Council? Kind of a moot point though since they offered Jean her seat back if she wanted it but she refused so I think the whole "can't be an X-Men and on the Council" was just the council being salty at the time.

But they reiterated that notion at the last hell fire gala when emma said she was exempt from being able to join the team so it was codified. maybe because jean turned it down. But even then why would the xmen be any less beholden to the council if jean was on it then if she was off it. Every other council member seems to do what they want.

[jwatson]

Exactly. Jean cant be on council and have her own team but multiple other people are doing it? Or have other things going on? Makes 0 sense.

Oh and dont get me started on Xavier going to Emma of all people to help with Moira during Inferno instead of Jean, Cyclops and or Storm. It was one of many decisions that doesnt make sense on closer scrutiny other than Emma is Hickman’s pet character. Same with Jean and Cyke saying they only trust Emma with the information about Stasis because Duggan is obsessed with Emma. Not Storm, not Nightcrawler, not Kitty? For real? That had my eyes rolling and just sours the narrative for me.

Yup. Sinister ran hellions no one asked. Detiny is up to her own stuff. Kate is running the marauders. Emma was on the marauders and had say in hellions. Storm was on marauders and is on the arraki council. I could go on. So it really doesn't make much sense. But nothing is bigger imo than being the head of resurrections and on the council, that selene scene really sat with me with what she is capable of. What if another council member is killed and at her whim with exodus help for a vote that next time affects something bigger than selene.

And i could also argue marauders, rescuing mutants from other countries and solar systems is more of a problem for the political image of krakoa than xmen which acts as a bridge to humanity.

[Starchilde]

I really wanted to see a reaction from Jean and actual dialogue about the Moira revelation. Jean knew Moira from childhood and I really wanted to know her thoughts about it, and specially because it involves Charles, who is very close and important to Jean. Does it angers her that Charles hid this info from her? who knows. I wished to see Charles and Jean talking about it.

In the Gala there was Logan talking to Jean (telepathically) and saying something about Moira, did she already knew at that point?

[Tank]

Wasn't the whole point of creating the X-Men was to have a military body that wasn't beholden to the Council? Kind of a moot point though since they offered Jean her seat back if she wanted it but she refused so I think the whole "can't be an X-Men and on the Council" was just the council being salty at the time.

But then they let the council nominate mutants like firestar to the xmen and then seem to quite beholden to the council still so what exactly have the xmen team done? It feels like they’re just an extension of the council at this point. They may not like what the council is doing but they’re going to go with it anyways.

[jwatson]

But then they let the council nominate mutants like firestar to the xmen and then seem to quite beholden to the council still so what exactly have the xmen team done? It feels like they’re just an extension of the council at this point. They may not like what the council is doing but they’re going to go with it anyways.

Damn that's a really good point. How can the xmen be free of politics when a council member recommended someone else and basically alluded to it would be like voting for her in her place. Now we know firestar but the average mutant doesn't. It was made explicitly clear she just uses the gates but somehow she won the vote on nothing more than emma recommendation. Great point.