Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Cyclone_Ablaze]

Absolutely. Jean's telepathy has no upper limit. Just mull that over for a bit. She bitch slapped a Class Three Demon and Fear Lord. As far as I'm concerned, Jean can shut down and turn any mind to mush.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm just going to say:

Omega Level doesn't equate to being Omnipotent or Invincible. And which is why some writers like Ewing treat the label with some disregard.

[Phoenixx9]

This is why I stick to the appreciation threads, most other threads put characters against each other. I also stay out of the apprecation threads for characters whose fans say bad things about other characters (often Jean) in order to show how great their own favorite is.

Yeah, that probably is a better way to avoid such things, but then those haters control what we do and where we go, you know??

So many have so much bad to say about Jean, I cannot stand it. They even feel comfortable sometimes doing it here in her own appreciation thread.

I thought everyone who was a fan of the old XTAS would be happy with the news for X-Men '97, never dreaming the hatred was so strong for Jean that some would post over-and-over again how low her fan base is, how weak she was on the show and their "concerns and worries" for the new show. Chile, please!!!

They do not know Jean Grey, they do not want to learn about her and any powerful showings and descriptions are wiped away by them. Best just to ignore them than waste precious energy.

[Phoenixx9]

I raise a glass as well!!

[Devaishwarya]

X-Men TAS was in 1992 X-Men '97, though of the same era, is being written 20 years later. If anyone is expecting the same type of creative treatment of 2 decades ago, then they're idiots.
I may not be interested in XM-97 from a nostalgic perspective but I am willing to bet that it will be 100 times better than the original (which I hated) while striking similar, very strong emotional chords with its viewers.

[Phoenixx9]

Oh, you would be surprised at what they talk about, lol.

The Jean bashing can be bad, like her fans should want her TK to be Omega, not her TP and make Xavier Omega TP, stuff like this that has nothing to do with TAS 97. Plus, we her fans, are not the ones making Jean's TP Omega, that was the writers, lol!

[Devaishwarya]

Ugh! *gives the face

like I said, idiots. LOL

[MechaJeanix]

I didn’t read Hickman’s definition that if anyone was stronger than you then you couldn’t be an omega. To me Hickman’s definition was: ”Can we measure this person’s ability or is this person’s ability beyond our ability to quantify? If it is the latter, then the person is an Omega.” Being an omega has more to do with that your potential is (seemingly) unlimited. Forge’s ability could be quantified, according to Hickman, and hence he is not an omega.

I don't think Hickman's definition is about just having potential necessarily. I just re-read the data page and it is easily found by a google search. I think the part about potential is fan projection based on the older definitions - like the one set in X-men forever which was about "unlimited potential". In Hickman's definition it is about having registering or reaching an undefinable upper limit of a specific power classification (Jordan D White the editor once explained on twitter when fans pressed him on the definition and why we had two telepaths- that Jean and Quire were best at telepathy than any other telepath - which was probably a basic twitter explanation for Hickman's definition admittedly).

It is about being the most powerful in your category and not being able to be surpassed- again look at the example with Forge. Forge by Hickman was stated to be the most powerful technopath but he's not omega because he can and is surpassed by others. If you are an omega then you cannot be surpassed. It is explicably said in relation to Magneto- "Magneto's power cannot be surpassed in any measurable fashion" is a direct quote. Duggan had Synch describe Jean's powers as immeasurable. Duggan has used the definition of "no upper limits" to describe omegas in interviews and on twitter.

If you look at the script to House of X issue 1 it states the omega list are the most powerful mutants on earth (may not be an exact quote).

Granted you can argue about Quire and despite dying a lot he's still shown to be powerful telepath.

[MechaJeanix]

Hickman’s omega info page is a disaster, all it did is create even more confusion, Forge’d example is not good at all, it fails to get the point across and makes it even more nebulous, I’m glad other writers have decided to independently disregard some of the worts arbitrary things he tried (failing) to establish.

I see a lot of fans saying this but as someone who just re-read the data page it seems very clear. I think fans go wrong by projecting their thoughts, feelings, and ideas on the definition but that is just my take. The examples he uses with Forge and Magneto help explain any confusion about the definition imo.

[Wiccan]

I thought it was kinda awkward that we had two telepaths but every other power had only one mutant. I feel like Quentin had to keep his omega-ness simply because it's part of his codename and a lot of his stories. If they're letting more than one person in, I wish it had Rachel/Nate too, and Polaris along with Magneto.

[MechaJeanix]

I thought it was kinda awkward that we had two telepaths but every other power had only one mutant. I feel like Quentin had to keep his omega-ness simply because it's part of his codename and a lot of his stories. If they're letting more than one person in, I wish it had Rachel/Nate too, and Polaris along with Magneto.

There were multiple reality warpers on the list too though one is probably no longer on it (Franklin). Though they did distinguish differences between them (one being universal, another psionic, and lastly quantum). Maybe they should have done the same with Jean and Quire - which I would have liked though I'm not sure how they would have done it.

I liked where one fan described Quire's telepathy as a CPU/processing power and Jean's telepathy more like memory/hard drive space. I don't recall which one of you said this but I always liked it. It is my head canon now lol

[johnnysv75]

I see a lot of fans saying this but as someone who just re-read the data page it seems very clear. I think fans go wrong by projecting their thoughts, feelings, and ideas on the definition but that is just my take. The examples he uses with Forge and Magneto help explain any confusion about the definition imo.

I re-read it now and I do think it is a bit confusing. The definition is pretty straight forward: ”an undefinable upper limit”. That is, they are so powerful that we can’t measure it.

But the example is bad. It uses ”the two most powerful mutants of their power type”, which makes it look like only the most powerful in each power type can be an omega. But the definition talks about ”an undefinable upper limit”, not that ”you have to be the most powerful mutant in that power type and have an undefinable upper limit”. How do you even know who is the most powerful if you have two telepaths whose upper limit is undefinable? Not being able to define and quantify the power is just what makes them omega. So weird.

The example makes it confusing. They should have stuck with the definition only and then had the list. No one would have wondered why there were two telepaths on the list if they had done that.

[Omega_DCD]

There were multiple reality warpers on the list too though one is probably no longer on it (Franklin). Though they did distinguish differences between them (one being universal, another psionic, and lastly quantum). Maybe they should have done the same with Jean and Quire - which I would have liked though I'm not sure how they would have done it.

I liked where one fan described Quire's telepathy as a CPU/processing power and Jean's telepathy more like memory/hard drive space. I don't recall which one of you said this but I always liked it. It is my head canon now lol

That would be me, haha....glad you like it

As for the Omega distinctions, I would have liked if it went

Exodus - Telekinesis
Quentin - Telepathy
Jean Grey - Omni-psionic (Telepathy, Telekinesis, Empathy)

Because I think Jean's empathic aspect of her power gets slept on a lot...it is a big part of how she was able to sense the M'Kraan Crystal's pain and ultimately know how to use the spiritual energy of the X-Men to re-stitch it back together...even the animated series says "Jean was chosen (by the Phoenix) for her empathic abilities"...I think in combination with her TK it gives her more precise telekinetic sensitivity and psychometric acuity, such as when she was purging the mansion of the leftover psychic hate after Operation Zero Tolerance.

*EDIT* I forgot to mention that very recently in Immortal X-Men #4, Emma highlights how Jean's use of empathy makes a better telepath(I mean, among other reasons of course) *EDIT*

In a list with 3 psychics, I think giving Jean the broadest scope both sets her apart and stays accurate to her history.

Oh and lastly, since I haven't posted in a while, WELCOME BACK MERCURY!

[Wiccan]

There were multiple reality warpers on the list too though one is probably no longer on it (Franklin). Though they did distinguish differences between them (one being universal, another psionic, and lastly quantum). Maybe they should have done the same with Jean and Quire - which I would have liked though I'm not sure how they would have done it.

I liked where one fan described Quire's telepathy as a CPU/processing power and Jean's telepathy more like memory/hard drive space. I don't recall which one of you said this but I always liked it. It is my head canon now lol

Yeah the reality warping thing makes sense with how they're differentiated, but telepathy not really. I'm still hoping that one day Wanda becomes a mutant again and gets listed as "Reality Warping (Magical)".

With telepathy, I feel like there's really no way that they're inheretly different, it's just a matter of how each telepath uses their powerset.

[mike7171]

Well, if Quire can't match Jean's telepathic power. Then He has an upper limit. So he should not be an omega in the same power set.