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  1. #5566
    Incredible Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I am not sure if this post is directed at me and some of my responses, but to be clear, I am not policing people's takeaways or opinions. In fact, I am trying to allay people's fears and worries. Also, I am certainly not accusing people of "bash[ing]" or "attack[ing]" Jean. Admittedly, I have pointed out when certain users repeatedly share negative takes and opinions and nothing else in her appreciation thread, but that's just my observation. That being said, like you, I believe everyone is entitled to share their thoughts and opinions.
    I hear you, and it's not to you per se but rather a general vibe from the recent individual book threads, preview threads, as well as say the X-Men '97 thread and post SDCC stuff. And while it's true this is an appreciation thread, what each individual appreciates and to what degree will vary(and it's unfeasible for every appreciation thread to have a corresponding "dislikes/gripes" thread, so those get lumped in too).

    As a quick example take X-Men Red and Tom Taylor's Jean...for some that is as pitch perfect as it gets, and I get it, especially at the time, coming off of Jean's long absence AND the state of the world (political/social discourse) at the time...and for me, it's super close but not quite...like 90% there for me...it's just missing that "roiling just underneath the surface" edge/fire I needed to have an ideally complete Jean Grey, which incidently, DID show up briefly in the XMR Annual.

    But yes, those that complain but offer no other positive insights otherwise do the thread no favors


    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I could be wrong but pretty sure that no one expects everything to be 100 percent cheerful. The issue is when the same endlessly complain about everything. Quite clearly nothing is going to make them happy and that is not the fault of other fans or Marvel. And that is what it is. I’m not bothered by it to that degree, but I have seen it stop other people from posting.
    Same as above...and yes that is lamentable, especially if this thread and these boards in general are meant to provide some entertainment and escapism from whatever else is going on in one's life...at some point those doing so should be directly addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Rumblings:

    “Jean is in [JD 2] a lot.”
    Good to hear! I do so appreciate your "ear to the ground" rumblings from your sources

  2. #5567
    The Red Dragon Tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    I hear you, and it's not to you per se but rather a general vibe from the recent individual book threads, preview threads, as well as say the X-Men '97 thread and post SDCC stuff. And while it's true this is an appreciation thread, what each individual appreciates and to what degree will vary(and it's unfeasible for every appreciation thread to have a corresponding "dislikes/gripes" thread, so those get lumped in too).

    As a quick example take X-Men Red and Tom Taylor's Jean...for some that is as pitch perfect as it gets, and I get it, especially at the time, coming off of Jean's long absence AND the state of the world (political/social discourse) at the time...and for me, it's super close but not quite...like 90% there for me...it's just missing that "roiling just underneath the surface" edge/fire I needed to have an ideally complete Jean Grey, which incidently, DID show up briefly in the XMR Annual.

    But yes, those that complain but offer no other positive insights otherwise do the thread no favors




    Same as above...and yes that is lamentable, especially if this thread and these boards in general are meant to provide some entertainment and escapism from whatever else is going on in one's life...at some point those doing so should be directly addressed.



    Good to hear! I do so appreciate your "ear to the ground" rumblings from your sources
    I likes the agency that xmen red Jean had but she was too preachy and was all bark and no bite. I was so hyped for a knock down drag out fight with Cassandra, but instead we had the equivalent of a carebear stare/“I beat you with FEELINGS”. What would have been a hype, cathartic moment for Jean and readers turned into a bland fizzle. I kind of blame Tom Taylor for the bland Jean we have right now. She needs her fire and an edge back.
    Last edited by Tank; 08-06-2022 at 11:46 AM.

  3. #5568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I likes the agency that xmen red Jean had but she was too preachy and was all bark and no bite. I was so hyped for a knock down drag out fight with Cassandra, but instead we had the equivalent of a carebear stare/“I beat you with FEELINGS”. What would have been a hype, cathartic moment for Jean and readers turned into a bland fizzle. I kind of blame Tom Taylor for the bland Jean we have right now. She needs her fire and an edge back.
    I also wanted Jean to take Cassandra down hard. I gotta agree with you here.

    Now I love your post here on XMen Rdd. You pointed out what you like and what clearly didn’t work for you, the militant pacific Ian which didn’t work out for me either.

    What some of are complaining about is when certain people scream at the sky at everything to the point of driving other posters away. I have disagreed with you but you have been that person.

  4. #5569
    Incredible Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    I do get the concern for Jean’s usage, but I think we should at the very least trust Mercury’s take if it is so difficult to believe in what Gillen says. Yes, Mercury does get excited over a lot, but they are most certainly incredibly accurate in news about Jean is portrayed usually.

    Not to mention we have wanted a spicier Jean and already we are seeing snippets of it in this preview alone from just a single line, which no one can deny is the most personality Jean has had in that one phrase in comparison to Hickman’s Jean comparatively. We have seen Gillen’s view of Jean before through his previous X-Men stories.





    Critique is fine, but pre-judging in my opinion is not a real good thing. Speculation is fine. Excitement is good. But tempering expectations are also reasonable to do. But let’s actually read the whole thing before writing Gillen’s work on Jean off as good or bad.

    @jwatson doesn’t really like Gillen’s writing anyways and it’s completely fine for them because they have legitimately given Gillen’s work a try and didn’t like anything. But I think everyone else should at the very least see what he does with Jean before saying anything, especially if we liked what he has brought so far.

    Example: I was pretty underwhelmed by Jean’s portrayal in the first issue of A.X.E. She came at the tail end of a battle and completely missed out on a psychic fight that really showed off the power of the psi’s of the Quiet Council after Druig attests that no single Eternal can fight the psi’s in combat, despite literally being a nation of psychics.

    Is that gonna make me judge an entire issue off of a preview? No. Would I like to see Jean wrecking Eternals right out of the gate? Yeah, but I am not gonna nitpick the issue for what I see is only a couple of pages in a battle that had already started before Exodus had even arrived. I will reserve that judgement for when the issue comes out.

  5. #5570
    Incredible Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I likes the agency that xmen red Jean had but she was too preachy and was all bark and no bite. I was so hyped for a knock down drag out fight with Cassandra, but instead we had the equivalent of a carebear stare/“I beat you with FEELINGS”. What would have been a hype, cathartic moment for Jean and readers turned into a bland fizzle. I kind of blame Tom Taylor for the bland Jean we have right now. She needs her fire and an edge back.
    That was my problem with it too. In my head, Jean would actually win her fight against Cassandra and leave her alive to prove a point about mercy. And maybe even injecting that nano-sentinel in Cassandra’s head afterwards

  6. #5571
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    Here’s what I think part of the issue is. Some people are pretty happy with the Krakoa era. I’m one of them. Some people aren’t. That’s fine.

    But no one here to force what they like or don’t like on other people. Respect people’s right to their beliefs.

    As for Mercury, of course he is generally right. He goes to actual sources in the comics for upcoming spoilers. Plus, Msrcel is predictable if you actual read the comics and don’t let trolls determine how you feel.

    Also, sometimes it’s just a waste of time to engage certain people on certain things as some people seem incapable of rational discourse or logic. You find this in all walks of life, not just in fandom. If certain conversations don’t work out for you, you may have to out some people on ignore.

  7. #5572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I likes the agency that xmen red Jean had but she was too preachy and was all bark and no bite. I was so hyped for a knock down drag out fight with Cassandra, but instead we had the equivalent of a carebear stare/“I beat you with FEELINGS”. What would have been a hype, cathartic moment for Jean and readers turned into a bland fizzle. I kind of blame Tom Taylor for the bland Jean we have right now. She needs her fire and an edge back.
    I like that I don’t have to post anymore, I can eat ice-cream and gives you my thumb-up!
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  8. #5573
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Stay tuned Monday for talk regarding her use of “Marvel Girl.”
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  9. #5574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    Judging from Gillen's quote, I also think that he needed a telepath for his storyline because he also brought up Xavier and Emma as characters from his current run he could have used instead of Jean (and not Exodus, for example).

    Maybe we shouldn't expect so much of a huge telekinetic showcase of Jean's powers (also the previews seem to tease it) but a telepathic attack?

    I personally prefer Jean as a telepath tbh. I just love a creative usage of her telepathic powers. I feel like her telekinetic powers have been showcased to the fullest already in her long history, but her telepathy can still be used in so much more creative & new manners.

    I wished Jean would become the guardian for the astral plane like Doctor Strange is for magical and multiversal threats.
    That would be really interesting, though in her reality, I imagine it would mean she was in actuality just sitting with her eyes closed in every issue lol

  10. #5575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Stay tuned Monday for talk regarding her use of “Marvel Girl.”
    Will marvel issue a worlwide public apology to jean’s fandom?
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  11. #5576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    Will marvel issue a worlwide public apology to jean’s fandom?
    I wonder if Jodan will have an in-story reason that didn't make it in the book that is different from the non-narrative answer he gave on this topic already.

    He has already previously explained that they don't want her to be Phoenix but also didn't feel like coming up with a different codename lol so they just used Marvel Girl.

  12. #5577
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    Will marvel issue a worldwide public apology to jean’s fandom?
    I suspect he will reaffirm what Duggan has already subtly established: Jean's choice to reclaim the Marvel Girl garb and moniker was a conflicted one that left her feeling insecure. I also have a hunch Gillen might be exploring this in A.X.E.: X-Men #1. In either case, something tells me fans will still complain.

    Interestingly enough, she appears on the roster in Judgment Day #1 as Jean Grey, not Marvel Girl.

    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  13. #5578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I wonder if Jodan will have an in-story reason that didn't make it in the book that is different from the non-narrative answer he gave on this topic already.

    He has already previously explained that they don't want her to be Phoenix but also didn't feel like coming up with a different codename lol so they just used Marvel Girl.
    Jean going trough the early stages of psionic induced mutant dementia ?
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

  14. #5579
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    I do get the concern for Jean’s usage, but I think we should at the very least trust Mercury’s take if it is so difficult to believe in what Gillen says. Yes, Mercury does get excited over a lot, but they are most certainly incredibly accurate in news about Jean is portrayed usually.

    Not to mention we have wanted a spicier Jean and already we are seeing snippets of it in this preview alone from just a single line, which no one can deny is the most personality Jean has had in that one phrase in comparison to Hickman’s Jean comparatively. We have seen Gillen’s view of Jean before through his previous X-Men stories.





    Critique is fine, but pre-judging in my opinion is not a real good thing. Speculation is fine. Excitement is good. But tempering expectations are also reasonable to do. But let’s actually read the whole thing before writing Gillen’s work on Jean off as good or bad.

    @jwatson doesn’t really like Gillen’s writing anyways and it’s completely fine for them because they have legitimately given Gillen’s work a try and didn’t like anything. But I think everyone else should at the very least see what he does with Jean before saying anything, especially if we liked what he has brought so far.

    Example: I was pretty underwhelmed by Jean’s portrayal in the first issue of A.X.E. She came at the tail end of a battle and completely missed out on a psychic fight that really showed off the power of the psi’s of the Quiet Council after Druig attests that no single Eternal can fight the psi’s in combat, despite literally being a nation of psychics.

    Is that gonna make me judge an entire issue off of a preview? No. Would I like to see Jean wrecking Eternals right out of the gate? Yeah, but I am not gonna nitpick the issue for what I see is only a couple of pages in a battle that had already started before Exodus had even arrived. I will reserve that judgement for when the issue comes out.
    All of this. And thanks for the vote of confidence. I do try to report what I'm at least 90% sure is true.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  15. #5580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I also have a hunch Gillen might be exploring this in A.X.E.: X-Men #1. In either case, something tells me fans will still complain.
    I manly post to point out stuff that I don’t appreciate, it’s my way of helping marvel get better, I deserve a medal for my feedback.
    Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”

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