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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    One of the best Jean stories ❤️ And my favorite costume of hers. The full white Phoenix outfit has something so mystical and cosmic to me. It matches the stars in my mind, as the Phoenix is the “mother of the stars”.
    They should have had her wear it more. It was a great story!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Agent of Chaos View Post
    Is the White Hot Room connected to the M'Kraan Crystal? If so, where was this established?
    In the AvX tie-in Secret Avengers #26, the Kree baddies had an M'Kraan shard and it apparently gave them access to the White Hot Room, from which they resurrected Mar-Vell for a bit. This idea hasn't been referenced since so your mileage may vary.

  3. #63
    Incredible Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    They should have had her wear it more. It was a great story!
    Definitely, is so unique and personal for her. It has such a deep connection to Jean. I wonder if someday a writer will reference that story? I would literally cry if I read Jean talking about the time she met Death in space, in a modern comic.

  4. #64
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    From an old X-Men issue. The beginning of Kelly’s run, I think. (I think Jean is battling the Iron Man from the reality Franklin Richards created.) She looks so powerful here.


  5. #65
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    Definitely, is so unique and personal for her. It has such a deep connection to Jean. I wonder if someday a writer will reference that story? I would literally cry if I read Jean talking about the time she met Death in space, in a modern comic.
    Did you read the post by BobbysWorld about the connection between Jean and the Phoenix? (Page 2 in this thread.) What did you think about that idea, having Jean one day transcend into the Phoenix force?

  6. #66
    Mighty Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Question about Jean's pink form.

    Is it powered by how many people/beings she's leeching or by the power of the being? For example, if she leeched say 50 Sage's (low level telepath) vs say 1 Xavier, would she gain more power from the Sages' due to numbers or the Xavier due to the raw power?
    Through lightning and rain, break down the walls and unlock these chains!

  7. #67
    Marvel Girl Could Never! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    Question about Jean's pink form.

    Is it powered by how many people/beings she's leeching or by the power of the being? For example, if she leeched say 50 Sage's (low level telepath) vs say 1 Xavier, would she gain more power from the Sages' due to numbers or the Xavier due to the raw power?
    I believe power plays a part in it. Of course, it's comic book science so no real rules, but I think she was able to punch Galactus by drawing on his own massive power, IIRC.

    I wish Adult Jean was allowed to use the pink form.
    #FreeSCEMMA

    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  8. #68
    Incredible Member Starchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Did you read the post by BobbysWorld about the connection between Jean and the Phoenix? (Page 2 in this thread.) What did you think about that idea, having Jean one day transcend into the Phoenix force?
    I think is beautiful and it makes so much sense. I love how much insight it gives to the history of Jean and the concept of Omega, and it fixes the mess in a beautiful way. We have seen Jean trascending in Morrison’s, is her Destiny done early because she had to save the universe from Sublime.

    Both yours and Bobby’s idea about Jean and Phoenix sound amazing to me and they make absolute sense, 100 times better that whatever Marvel tries to do with the concept of Phoenix now. Honestly Marvel trying to detach the Phoenix from Jean SO HARD is such a “trying to make fetch happen” move for me. The story of Phoenix is born from Jean, she is the one who makes the Phoenix interesting and moving, without her there’s no soul and the concept becomes a power-up. I’ve always seen the Phoenix and Jean as one, just as BobbysWorld said, even with the retcon considered. It’s a part of her identity and shouldn’t be given to random people. Aside from her it only works with Rachel bc she is a daughter of Jean, a legacy that truly wanted to honor her. That’s why she is called Starchilde, since Phoenix is the Mother of Stars.

    I don’t like that Jean has to be so stripped from that part of her identity bc is “complicated”. You don’t see writers stripping other characters from what people consider “scary” or “dangerous” about them. Think Illyana or Wanda, for example. I wish they would see Jean through the same lens and do something like what you or Bobby have proposed.
    Last edited by Starchilde; 01-02-2022 at 07:03 PM.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchilde View Post
    I think is beautifu and it makes so much sense. I love how much insight it gives to the history of Jean and the concept of Omega, and it fixes the mess in a beautiful way. We have seen Jean trascending in Morrison’s, is her Destiny done early because she had to save the universe from Sublime.

    Both yours and Bobby’s idea about Jean and Phoenix sound amazing to me and they make absolute sense, 100 times better that whatever Marvel tries to do with the concept of Phoenix now. Honestly Marvel trying to detach the Phoenix from Jean SO HARD is such a “trying to make fetch happen” move for me. The story of Phoenix is born from Jean, she is the one who makes the Phoenix interesting and moving, without her there’s no soul and the concept becomes a power-up. I’ve always seen the Phoenix and Jean as one, just as BobbysWorld said, even with the retcon considered. It’s a part of her identity and shouldn’t be given to random people. Aside from her it only works with Rachel bc she is a daughter of Jean, a legacy that truly wanted to honor her. That’s why she is called Starchilde, since Phoenix is the Mother of Stars.

    I don’t like that Jean has to be so stripped from that part of her identity bc is “complicated”. You don’t see writers stripping other characters from what people consider “scary” or “dangerous” about them. Think Illyana or Wanda, for example. I wish they would see Jean through the same lens and do something like what you or Bobby have proposed.
    Yes! I haven’t thought about Illyana and Wanda, but you are absolutely right. It feels like they are using the same lens for Jean that Shooter used back in the 70s.

    Sometimes I really really miss Morrison.

    I want to show BobbysWorld’s post to everyone ”in charge” at Marvel Comics and tell them: ”Look at this! See how beautiful it is, and how much sense it makes!”

  10. #70
    Incredible Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I wish Adult Jean was allowed to use the pink form.
    Yeah, if she can’t be the Phoenix this is the perfect compromise.






  11. #71
    Marvel Girl Could Never! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    Yeah, if she can’t be the Phoenix this is the perfect compromise.





    I think we don't see the pink form because the Powers That Be regard it the same way they regard the Phoenix. It makes her independently flashy and badass.
    #FreeSCEMMA

    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  12. #72
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I think we don't see the pink form because the Powers That Be regard it the same way they regard the Phoenix. It makes her independently flashy and badass.
    Honestly, I think White said what he said--i.e., that she is still capable of doing what she did as a time-displaced teenager but chooses, for the moment, not to--because he knew Hickman wouldn't be touching upon it--Hickman ended up not touching upon most of the characters' histories and abilities--during his run. However, the fact that "the powers that be" didn't want to retcon or remove teenage Jean's newfound manifestation of her powers from adult Jean's repertoire and overall power set indicates that they are open to and maybe even considering exploring these aspects of her abilities in the future. If not, White simply would have said, "She can't and won't be doing that anymore." Instead, he made it clear that "it remains to be seen" if she will again use her powers the way she did as a time-displaced teenager. It's also important to remember that Jean has had moments in which she's lost both her telepathic and telekinetic abilities for extended periods.

    Furthermore, to give some perspective, most characters during Hickman's run have been underdeveloped and nerfed in favor of his overall concept, which, incidentally, I believe was meant to be temporary and perhaps a commentary/cautionary tale regarding nationalism. It seems Hickman's final aim was to reset his own paradigm shift--Moira was probably supposed to die--to something still different from the status quo present when he first took over the X-franchise, but not the same as the status quo he is leaving behind. As he himself has admitted, his writing team didn't want to move on to the next phase of his overarching plot/narrative. In either case, most fans have taken issue with and umbrage at the fact that Hickman's depictions of the majority of the characters have not honored their histories and established character traits.

    Hell, I've spoken to a few Emma fans on Twitter who, despite loving the political importance Hickman has given her, are bothered by the fact that she has rarely used her telepathic powers and, when she has, seems to be a considerably weaker telepath this era. I hadn't noticed this at first, but when a particular Emma fan with whom I have a good rapport began pointing out and citing examples, it dawned on me that they were onto something. It also gave me some perspective and made me realize that most fans have something to complain about regarding depictions of their favorite characters this era. Thankfully, I'd venture to say more so than in most mediums, the rules and established reality in comic books are constantly shifting and changing for both good and bad. It seems pointless to take on a fatalistic or pessimistic attitude about the direction teams and characters will take in the future.

    I'm at a point where I'm just happy and grateful that Jean is back and a part of the nucleus of the current and it seems future status quo. Of course, like everyone here, there are things I would change about her characterization and new directions in which I would prefer to take her, but I'm also certain that she will continue to grow and evolve and surprise us. She has a lot of fans out there, both in and outside of the comic book industry. At this point, her overall stature and legacy within both the X-franchise and Marvel Universe at large are undeniable. As her fan, I think it is incumbent upon me to share her history and potential as a character and my ideas for her with as many people as possible to generate more interest and enthusiasm. As I've said before, the cosmos and beyond are the limit for her as a character, and I intend to remain optimistic and keep my eyes on the ever-expanding horizon.
    Last edited by Mercury; 01-02-2022 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #73
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Also, who remembers Marvel Le Fay?





    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  14. #74
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  15. #75
    The Joker was right! The Agent of Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising7 View Post
    In the AvX tie-in Secret Avengers #26, the Kree baddies had an M'Kraan shard and it apparently gave them access to the White Hot Room, from which they resurrected Mar-Vell for a bit. This idea hasn't been referenced since so your mileage may vary.
    I also read a What If book where Vulcan entered the White Hot Room through the crystal. Was just wondering if their was ever any 616 examples.

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