Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Mercury]

X-Men Forever is irrelevant to this discussion as thats not referenced in the current era. Xavier wrote the HOX data entry, which is what I was going on. Again, Im not saying he created the term omega mutant or originator of it ever being defined, but that the current definition that is now being used came from him

Or Cerebro. Perhaps Cerebro noted, "Mutant has an undefinable upper limit in [insert power classification]," no?

[Havok83]

Or Cerebro. Perhaps Cerebro noted, "Mutant has an undefinable upper limit in [insert power classification]," no?

I mean Cerebro isnt sentient (at least current model is). All it can do is be used as a tool for a user, that being Xavier, whom determined that the definition would be. Cerebro doesnt interepret its findings; Xavier did

[Grinning Soul]

I was mostly playing. However, technically, Xavier didn't determine the definition of Omega Level mutants, Fred--whoever that is--did. Also, under Hickman, Cerebro seems to have determined the definition of the classification.

Perhaps FBI agent Frederick Duncan?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

If we go by what's been referenced in the current era, there isn't much about Jean's history that counts for anything lol

[Mercury]

Perhaps FBI agent Frederick Duncan?

Hi, love! I just got a warm feeling seeing your username I'm glad you're still around! Also, I don't even know who Frederick Duncan is--you know how ditzy I am about these things--so please elaborate.

[Phoenixx9]

Perhaps FBI agent Frederick Duncan?

Yep--that would be him!

[Mercury]

I mean Cerebro isnt sentient (at least current model is). All it can do is be used as a tool for a user, that being Xavier, whom determined that the definition would be. Cerebro doesnt interepret its findings; Xavier did

Cerebro provides findings, though, and would be the tool to gauge a mutant's power limits and capabilities.

If we go by what's been referenced in the current era, there isn't much about Jean's history that counts for anything lol

[Grinning Soul]

Hi, love! I just got a warm feeling seeing your username :) I'm glad you're still around! Also, I don't even know who Frederick Duncan is--you know how ditzy I am about these things--so please elaborate.

Just lurking, really. Trying to help with facts if/when I can and feel like it. Even if they are - like in this case - totally irrelevant! :P

As for Fred Duncan, you know who he is 'cause you read the 60s comics. It's that FBI agent who worked with Xavier. :)

[Mercury]

Just lurking, really. Trying to help with facts if/when I can and feel like it. Even if they are - like in this case - totally irrelevant! :P

What you have to share is never irrelevant, especially the facts you bring to the table.

As for Fred Duncan, you know who he is 'cause you read the 60s comics. It's that FBI agent who worked with Xavier. [/QUOTE]

Ah, okay! I remember! I wonder how Fred would be able to gauge that!

[Grinning Soul]

Ah, okay! I remember! I wonder how Fred would be able to gauge that!

Here's a suggestion I hope doesn't offend anyone:what if Cerebro has a limited scale in which it can actually measure mutant power? And because of that, after a certain amount of power, it just can't really measure how powerful a mutant is anymore?

Xavier might have shared that Cerebro read Bobby and Jean like that and Fred came up with the term "Omega". Because, you know, there was no vocabulary to refer to them.

What if the definition of "omega" is actually not fully understood in-story as well? What if it has changed as cerebro and the knowledge of mutant power was improved and expanded?

[Phoenixx9]

Here's a suggestion I hope doesn't offend anyone:what if Cerebro has a limited scale in which it can actually measure mutant power? And because of that, after a certain amount of power, it just can't really measure how powerful a mutant is anymore?

Xavier might have shared that Cerebro read Bobby and Jean like that and Fred came up with the term "Omega". Because, you know, there was no vocabulary to refer to them.

What if the definition of "omega" is actually not fully understood in-story as well? What if it has changed as cerebro and the knowledge of mutant power was improved and expanded?

I think you are correct. For example, if I remember correctly, Xavier used Cerebro to find both Dazzler and Kitty Pryde, wherein he mentioned that both were "potentially quite powerful" or some-such wording. This lead me to believe that Cerebro can give some general reading of power but perhaps not exact level of power nor what are the exact powers.

[Lucyinthesky]

Here's a suggestion I hope doesn't offend anyone:what if Cerebro has a limited scale in which it can actually measure mutant power? And because of that, after a certain amount of power, it just can't really measure how powerful a mutant is anymore?

Xavier might have shared that Cerebro read Bobby and Jean like that and Fred came up with the term "Omega". Because, you know, there was no vocabulary to refer to them.

What if the definition of "omega" is actually not fully understood in-story as well? What if it has changed as cerebro and the knowledge of mutant power was improved and expanded?

Hi Grinning Soul, nice to see you posting again

I agree, we don´t know how many actualizations cerebro had and it makes sense it´s not able to detect the real power level of every mutant and that´s why we have the Omega and beyond omega level mutants.

[Mercury]

Here's a suggestion I hope doesn't offend anyone:what if Cerebro has a limited scale in which it can actually measure mutant power? And because of that, after a certain amount of power, it just can't really measure how powerful a mutant is anymore?

Xavier might have shared that Cerebro read Bobby and Jean like that and Fred came up with the term "Omega". Because, you know, there was no vocabulary to refer to them.

What if the definition of "omega" is actually not fully understood in-story as well? As it has changed as cerebro and the knowledge of mutant power was improved and expanded?

This is certainly a logical way of looking at the classification. Here's another thing to consider: The Shi'ar Logic Diamonds--"[m]ineral utensils with infinite information storage space"--are used "to power the new system augmentations made to Cerebro." Perhaps they've informed the current classification and its definition, especially considering the fact that these diamonds have "infinite information storage space."

Definition under the subheading Technology: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Shi%27ar_Empire

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Logic_Diamonds

[Grinning Soul]

I think you are correct. For example, if I remember correctly, Xavier used Cerebro to find both Dazzler and Kitty Pryde, wherein he mentioned that both were "potentially quite powerful" or some-such wording. This lead me to believe that Cerebro can give some general reading of power but perhaps not exact level of power nor what are the exact powers.

Exactly. Cerebro doesn't seem to be a precise measurement instrument, which makes sense as it used to double as a mutant-finding machine and now it's a psyche-xerox-machine as well.

I think it makes sense to assume that the more you go back in X-Men history, the more rudimentary the knowledge about mutant power was. So, back in the O5 days, it seems realistic to me that Xavier would have all those questions about what it meant for Bobby and Jean to be "Omega".

And perhaps we can even imagine that maybe it's still the case that no one fully understands it.

[Mercury]

Exactly. Cerebro doesn't seem to be a precise measurement instrument, which makes sense as it used to double as a mutant-finding machine and now it's a psyche-xerox-machine as well.

I think it makes sense to assume that the more you go back in X-Men history, the more rudimentary the knowledge about mutant power was. So, back in the O5 days, it seems realistic to me that Xavier would have all those questions about what it meant for Bobby and Jean to be "Omega".

And perhaps we can even imagine that maybe it's still the case that no one fully understands it.

We also can't discount Computo's classification of Jean as having "infinite mental powers." I believe it was self-aware and more advanced than Cerebro.

(You know I will always find a way to substantiate Jean being the most powerful mutant EVAR! mwahahahaha!)