Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[Grinning Soul]

Hi Grinning Soul, nice to see you posting again :)

I agree, we don´t know how many actualizations cerebro had and it makes sense it´s not able to detect the real power level of every mutant and that´s why we have the Omega and beyond omega level mutants.

I'm not really. I'll go back to my cave soon (and reply to your PM tomorrow). :P

I suppose trying to think of what mutants (and Xavier in particular, since we normally get his perspective of the matter) understand of their powers allows us to accept better the evolving definitions of "omega level". I don't think Hickman's will be the definitive one anyway.

Honestly? I don't even care about that. I'm happy with "Omega-level mutants are powerful AF" and let's move on to the actual stories. :P

[Mercury]

Honestly? I don't even care about that. I'm happy with "Omega-level mutants are powerful AF" and let's move on to the actual stories. :P

I love that, all throughout Jean's long history, she has been classified as being an anomaly, a nexus, and having infinite mental powers separate and apart from the Phoenix Force, in addition to being classified as an Omega Level Mutant. These descriptions all substantiate and lend credence to the fact that the Phoenix Force chose and was so obsessed with her for so long.

[Phoenixx9]

Exactly. Cerebro doesn't seem to be a precise measurement instrument, which makes sense as it used to double as a mutant-finding machine and now it's a psyche-xerox-machine as well.

I think it makes sense to assume that the more you go back in X-Men history, the more rudimentary the knowledge about mutant power was. So, back in the O5 days, it seems realistic to me that Xavier would have all those questions about what it meant for Bobby and Jean to be "Omega".

And perhaps we can even imagine that maybe it's still the case that no one fully understands it.

I agree again.

Also, perhaps what Xavier considered Omega about Jean and Bobby was that their powers had many more uses or different things they could do with them over the others.

As you say, perhaps there is still much to learn regarding being an omega mutant.

[Grinning Soul]

This is certainly a logical way of looking at the classification. Here's another thing to consider: The Shi'ar Logic Diamonds--"[m]ineral utensils with infinite information storage space"--are used "to power the new system augmentations made to Cerebro." Perhaps they've informed the current classification and its definition, especially considering the fact that these diamonds have "infinite information storage space."

Definition under the subheading Technology: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Shi%27ar_Empire

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Logic_Diamonds

Possible. Shi'Ar tech is canonically more advanced, after all.

But it's also possible that the Logic Diamonds are only being used for Cerebro's "new" function of reading, processing and storing the copy of the mutant psyche's. If you think about it, it is quite a task after all.

We also can't discount Computo's classification of Jean as having "infinite mental powers." I believe it was self-aware and more advanced than Cerebro.

(You know I will always find a way to substantiate Jean being the most powerful mutant EVAR! mwahahahaha!)

That's why I'm trying to be very careful here. :D

It's not because of you in specific. I just don't want to get anyone jumping on me for reading incorrectly that I'm suggesting that Jean isn't an Omega or powerful AF or whatever. Even though I said it countless of times that I think her power is limitless, including tk (though she doesn't need to be powerful for me to be her fan).

[Mercury]

I agree again.

Also, perhaps what Xavier considered Omega about Jean and Bobby was that their powers had many more uses or different things they could do with them over the others.

As you say, perhaps there is still much to learn regarding being an omega mutant.

Interestingly enough, Jean and Bobby have both seemingly reached the pinnacle of their abilities by transcending physical form. Jean has become "a being of pure thought" more than once, and Bobby can dissolve into water or mist. ☝️😌 I mean, how much farther from there can they go?

[Grinning Soul]

I agree again.

Also, perhaps what Xavier considered Omega about Jean and Bobby was that their powers had many more uses or different things they could do with them over the others.

As you say, perhaps there is still much to learn regarding being an omega mutant.

I think so too (EDIT: meaning, there's still a lot to learn). Though, to be honest, my preference is that no writer ever tries to explain it too much.

That's how we got midi-chlorians count. :P

[Mercury]

But it's also possible that the Logic Diamonds are only being used for Cerebro's "new" function of reading, processing and storing the copy of the mutant psyche's. If you think about it, it is quite a task after all.

This is precisely my point!

That's why I'm trying to be very careful here.

It's not because of you in specific. I just don't want to get anyone jumping on me for reading incorrectly that I'm suggesting that Jean isn't an Omega or powerful AF or whatever. Even though I said it countless of times that I think her power is limitless, including tk (though she doesn't need to be powerful for me to be her fan).

I understand. Also, you're safe here!

By the way, I'm still fleshing out the op of this thread. I would love it if you did a quick readthrough and let me know if I should add or change anything. You can DM me if you prefer. I'm in the middle of fleshing out the period spanning from the Phoenix Saga to her resurrection (2017).

[Phoenixx9]

Interestingly enough, Jean and Bobby have both seemingly reached the pinnacle of their abilities by transcending physical form. Jean has become "a being of pure thought" more than once, and Bobby can dissolve into water or mist. ☝️�� I mean, how much farther from there can they go?

Hahaha, true!

I think that is why it took a little longer for Jean and Bobby to reach their peak---they are so powerful that their Omega powers took a bit of time to adjust their minds and bodies.

[Grinning Soul]

I love that, all throughout Jean's long history, she has been classified as being an anomaly, a nexus, and having infinite mental powers separate and apart from the Phoenix Force, in addition to being classified as an Omega Level Mutant. These descriptions all substantiate and lend credence to the fact that the Phoenix Force chose and was so obsessed with her for so long.

It could be. Though I think it was primarily about her personality and then the fact she could "house" the PF.

And that's the part that is based on the actual stories. My headcanon gets much crazier than that, but I've talked about it twice already.

Going to sleep now. It's super late here. Have fun, guys. And a happy 2022 for everyone. o/

[Phoenixx9]

It could be. Though I think it was primarily about her personality and then the fact she could "house" the PF.

And that's the part that is based on the actual stories. My headcanon gets much crazier than that, but I've talked about it twice already.

Going to sleep now. It's super late here. Have fun, guys. And a happy 2022 for everyone. o/

Good nite, GS and Happy New Year 2022!

[Lucyinthesky]

I'm not really. I'll go back to my cave soon (and reply to your PM tomorrow). :P

That´s ok it´s always nice to talk with you

I suppose trying to think of what mutants (and Xavier in particular, since we normally get his perspective of the matter) understand of their powers allows us to accept better the evolving definitions of "omega level". I don't think Hickman's will be the definitive one anyway.

Agreed I think we will have other takes on what an Omega level is, it´s just that Hickman is the first to try to give it a category and an explanation instead of just being "Ultra powerful mutant" I personally don´t have a problem with his take but I would add that skill and potential play a big part in becoming an Omega, as you said, mutants have to understand their powers to be able to use them and for that all of them need to try with them and find their capabilities and limitations, this happened with Jean, Bobby, Magneto, Storm, etc and it could happen to other mutants. So I think cerebro may detect the initial power level of a mutant but then comes a time in which that power level is too high to give it a number and also cerebro is not infalible, Magneto has been able to hide himself from it a number of times and I think other mutants are capable of doing that as well.

Honestly? I don't even care about that. I'm happy with "Omega-level mutants are powerful AF" and let's move on to the actual stories. :P

Yes we as readers are like whatever, I want them to have adventures but I understand that writers do need to put some sort of definition to it, otherwise we are going to end with a bunch of OP mutants no plot would be good enough to explain why they can´t solve every problem ever in the story, so no conflict either and that´s a big narrative problem.

Going to sleep now. It's super late here. Have fun, guys. And a happy 2022 for everyone. o/

Good night GS, Happy New Year 2022

[Mercury]

Hahaha, true!

I think that is why it took a little longer for Jean and Bobby to reach their peak---they are so powerful that their Omega powers took a bit of time to adjust their minds and bodies.

Or vice versa!

It could be. Though I think it was primarily about her personality and then the fact she could "house" the PF.

And that's the part that is based on the actual stories. My headcanon gets much crazier than that, but I've talked about it twice already.

Going to sleep now. It's super late here. Have fun, guys. And a happy 2022 for everyone. o/

Hm. Interesting. I don't see her being classified as "an anomaly" or "a nexus of probabilities" or having "infinite mental powers" as having much to do, if anything, with her personality.

Agreed I think we will have other takes on what an Omega level is, it´s just that Hickman is the first to try to give it a category and an explanation instead of just being "Ultra powerful mutant" I personally don´t have a problem with his take but I would add that skill and potential play a big part in becoming an Omega, as you said, mutants have to understand their powers to be able to use them and for that all of them need to try with them and find their capabilities and limitations, this happened with Jean, Bobby, Magneto, Storm, etc and it could happen to other mutants. So I think cerebro may detect the initial power level of a mutant but then comes a time in which that power level is too high to give it a number and also cerebro is not infalible, Magneto has been able to hide himself from it a number of times and I think other mutants are capable of doing that as well.

I don't think a mutant becomes Omega Level. It seems they are born that way.

[Lucyinthesky]

I don't think a mutant becomes Omega Level. It seems they are born that way.

I agree, my point is just that being Omega also involves potential and potential alone can´t be developed if it´s not paired with skill and training. I think the Omega level mutants are born that way but to fully develop their potential they need to train and learn about how their powers work. For example, Bobby always had a lot of potential but he didn´t always had the control over his habilities he now has, same with Jean, Storm, etc. All of them had a lot of potential but the level of control and skill they now have was a result of their training.

[Mercury]

I agree, my point is just that being Omega also involves potential and potential alone can´t be developed if it´s not paired with skill and training. I think the Omega level mutants are born that way but to fully develop their potential they need to train and learn about how their powers work. For example, Bobby always had a lot of potential but he didn´t always had the control over his habilities he now has, same with Jean, Storm, etc. All of them had a lot of potential but the level of control and skill they now have was a result of their training.

Oh, I completely agree! And, considering they have “undefinable upper limit[s]” to the their power, they could potentially continue to learn about and grow in their abilities ad infinitum!

[Lucyinthesky]

Oh, I completely agree! And, considering they have “undefinable upper limit[s]” to the their power, they could potentially continue to learn about and grow in their abilities ad infinitum!

Exactly and I really like it because it tells us much of their characters how much training they need to do to get where they are now.