Doctor Doom Appreciation 2022 - Scientist, Sorcerer, Romani, King

[Iron Maiden]

I had this art kicking around on my computer from somewhere, the only clue I had was the name "The Master" ...
Attachment 121960

The layout of the art suggested a card of some sort, possibly a game card, related to Shield or Nick Fury or ...? I don't play these card games but there are a million of them out there, but the cards usually show up on ebay and there was nothing like it anywhere.

Well it took awhile going down the rabbit hole but I finally found out that it came from a digital game called War of Heroes, which first came out in 2012 or 2013. I don't know if it's still around but there is a Marvel fan wiki that appears to list all of these digital "cards" and there are quite a few that feature Dr Doom. There are hundreds of these digital cards and many of the familiar characters are represented multiple times. I found 22 that have Doom and 2 others for which a picture isn't available.

Unsurprisingly, some of the art is familiar, from comic book covers or has appeared on other game and collection cards. Some of that art has been modified to make something slightly different from the original. But quite a few were brand new art pieces, some quite good. I'll share two more but you can look it up on the Marvel fan wiki to see more if interested:

Attachment 121961

Attachment 121962

Wow...the art looks great on that. I'll have to check those out. Sometimes these kind of things show up at comic book shops but since it's been a while that might be a long shot.

[DoomScribe]

Well the cards are digital only at this point like NFTs, so it seems unlikely that they will turn up in a printed card version. But, it is a possibility I suppose.

This just showed up in the post ... another ebay find. This was from 2006, and is the set the the Heroclix Doom 2099 figure came in. Pretty nice set, particularly considering that these characters were essentially retired in 1996.
2022-06-18 11.47.58.jpg

[DoomScribe]

Also because you asked, here's a comparison between the Masher Dr Doom figure and the latest Mech Strike Monster Hunters figure, which is appreciably smaller:
Mech Strike Monster Hunters Doctor Doom and Mashers Doom compare.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

And not as well made! I would think if I showed the two of them to my young nephews, they would take the Masher figure. I know mine definitely looks more sturdy than the Mech Strike Monster Hunter. The Funko Monster Hunter looks more impressive and has better quality sculpting on the figure.



On a side note: Here are the only two Doom appearances I saw listed for comics coming this September. I don't know if it is by design or coincidence but Christos Gage is writing both of these series. I going to keep my eye on the Daredevil series by Zdarsky since we know from recent developments that once he was removed as mayor of NYC, Wilson Fisk AKA Kingpin is suspected to have fled to Latveria.


FORTNITE X MARVEL: ZERO WAR #5 (OF 5)

Christos Gage & Donald Mustard (W) • Sergio Dávila (A)

The most dangerous person in the Marvel Universe has thrown in with some of the most dangerous people in the Fortnite universe. But what does Doom really want? And how far will he go to get it?






MECH STRIKE: MONSTER HUNTERS #4 (OF 5)

Christos Gage (W) • Paco Diaz (A) • Cover by E.J. Su
As if monsterized versions of Venom, Green Goblin and Loki weren’t enough, Dr. Doom unleashes his latest monstrous creation upon the armored Avengers! It’s a no holds barred battle in Latveria — and by the end of this issue, only one will be left standing! But who will it be?!



The illustrated version of the Monster Hunter armor looks better here than as an action figure. But I'm not all that crazy about it. It would go near the bottom of my list of alternate versions of Doom's armor.

[DoomScribe]

We already had Doom appear in Fortnite #1, and here are covers for #2
Fortnite Zero War 002 cover art hans variant.jpg

Fortnite Zero War 002 cover art.jpg

From what I've read in #1 I wouldn't expect much from it, either in plotting or concept or character development. Or dialogue. So, maybe the art will redeem it. Who knows.

[Doom'nGloom]

I have a question. How would you rank Doom among magic users in marvel. Strange once said Doom studied magic that even he doesn't know, his library was very impressive in Unthinkable and Doom also came in second place in the tournament in Triumph and Torment but there was no other named contestant in that tournament if I remember it right. There is Strange, Wanda, Wiccan, Magik, Mordo, Clea, Voodoo, Loki, Enchantress, Le Fay etc. Where would you put Doom among them in terms of knowledge and skill?

[Iron Maiden]

I have a question. How would you rank Doom among magic users in marvel. Strange once said Doom studied magic that even he doesn't know, his library was very impressive in Unthinkable and Doom also came in second place in the tournament in Triumph and Torment but there was no other named contestant in that tournament if I remember it right. There is Strange, Wanda, Wiccan, Magik, Mordo, Clea, Voodoo, Loki, Enchantress, Le Fay etc. Where would you put Doom among them in terms of knowledge and skill?

Just my opinions of course....


1. I rank Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom at the top. I think that it's difficult to separate the two as to which is the best, for the reason you mention.who is the best. One thing that has to be remembered is that the Sorcerer Supreme doesn't have to be a paragon of virtue. I did find a wiki listing that mentions a Sorceress Supreme named Salome who was banished for her misdeeds for example. But the article doesn't source it's information which I would think one would have to do. I think the power level between them is practically a tie and I'd hate to have my live depend on the difference

2. Merlin is considered a former Sorcerer Supreme and since he's been around forever I'd rank him at #2. I am adding him to the list

3. Clea started out as the frail female that needed to be rescued but has grown in power over the years, especially recently. I think her reign as Sorcerer Supreme in this dimension will be short because you know Dr. Strange will return. But she would remain the Sorceress Supreme of Faltine I imagine.

4. Doctor Voodoo did serve as Sorcerer Supreme but it didn't last very long. And he needed Doom's help during his first major battle.

5. Wanda, when she has the power, is very dangerous as we've seen in both the comics version and the MCU. But her powers have been nullified at times and unfortunately has a history of mental instability.
6. The Aged Genghis is a former Sorcerer Supreme according to some sources but I've not seen any information as to where this is stated. He may have been quite powerful eons ago but these days his powers have diminished both mentally and physically/


7. Loki tried his hand at it but I think he just didn't like the responsibility. IIRC this was the young Loki phase, not the one we were introduced to in Stan and Jack's Thor.

8. Wiccan is starting to get there but I think at this point he lacks the maturity.

9. Magik same opinion of her. I don't read the X-Men comics so that's just a guess. IIRC Doom had no problem handling her in an old Excalibur story and snatched the Soul Sword right out of her hands.

10. Morgan Le Fey has been shown to be less powerful than Doom. He was able to use a spell to keep her prisoner. These days they are romantically involved but it's not a steady thing.

11. Enchantress has liminted powers also and I am going back to the first Secret War. I haven't seen her in anything recent.

[Doombot]

As much as I love Doom, and believe he is most likely a person whose skills are frighteningly powerful, he is not on par with Stephen Strange. I think many people forget, or don't realize, how truly powerful Dr. Strange is. Doom has learned much and gained even more skills over the years, but his skills are not at the same level as Strange. He has thousands of years worth experience and knowledge over Doom. This doesn't make Doom any less of a threat, but he does not have the same skill set Strange has.

You also can't rank beings like Loki or the Enchantress, as not only are they magics wielders, but are themselves beings of magic. These are beings that are much more powerful than mortal sorcerers, but can be contained or thwarted by those with the skills and knowledge to do so. Like Strange or Doom. "Defeating" Mephisto or Dormammu doesn't make you more powerful than them, you've just put your abilities, knowledge and intelligence (and probably a little luck) into coming up with a way to halt their current mystical highjinks.

Clea, Merlin, Dr Voodoo and Morgan LeFey are all powerful sorcerers and one could probably debate whether Doom belongs among this group or maybe a bit ahead of them.

Magik, Wiccan and Wanda are not a skilled as Doom, although Wanda has much greater raw power due to her mutant abilities.

[K7P5V]

The illustrated version of the Monster Hunter armor looks better here than as an action figure. But I'm not all that crazy about it. It would go near the bottom of my list of alternate versions of Doom's armor.

I know, right?! Even the HellArmor seemed far more imposing (IMHO):

[DoomScribe]

The thing with ranking Doom as a magic user is that people forget he has transcended mere magic, and has incorporated magic and technology in a way that no other sorcerer has up to now. Granted, what we call "technology" is magical to those who don't understand it, but the point is that Doom is not just a magic user. He has also been zipping around the time stream so much that we may have only seen a fraction of what he has learned as far as magic from past lives, from Morgana and others from pre-history.

I assume that Dr Strange will always be ranked above Doom in the hall of pure magic, but the same way Doom excels against Reed and Tony in technology by using magic, I think he excels against Stephen by using science. Stephen has some science background, being a physician, but he has never wielded it with the kind of creativity that Doom employs.

There is also a non-traditional way of thinking that allows Doom to excel in these matters, because he was never trained in a traditional manner (in either science or magic) and so he can draw from both fields in ways that the others don't even think about. That's not to say the others aren't intelligent, but that how we learn things at the beginning follows us and in many ways limits us to a particular way of thinking. Formal schooling is designed to teach people not just what to think but how to think, and for very intelligent people it is often teaching them to suppress their creativity. But school does give most people a foundational knowledge, although often from a point of bias toward other ways of thinking about problems. The fact that Doom was nearly 100% self-taught until well into his teen years just emphasizes how extraordinary his thought processes are, to be so successful all on his own. The same is true for his magic learning, which is why I'm certain in his mind there is little to no difference between what we would call technology and magic.

I actually think Doom is in a class all by himself because of this.

[charliehustle415]

As much as I love Doom, and believe he is most likely a person whose skills are frighteningly powerful, he is not on par with Stephen Strange.

I always assumed Strange and Doom were different sides of the same coin?

The former being the "good" sorcerer and the latter being the "bad" sorcerer and each are constantly being pulled toward the other side, this is why we see corrupted Strange a lot and good Doom a lot.

Sure other humans are close but not to their levels; moreover, what makes them powerful is that they're human - not mutants, gods, enhanced individuals at all.

[Doombot]

The thing with ranking Doom as a magic user is that people forget he has transcended mere magic, and has incorporated magic and technology in a way that no other sorcerer has up to now. Granted, what we call "technology" is magical to those who don't understand it, but the point is that Doom is not just a magic user. He has also been zipping around the time stream so much that we may have only seen a fraction of what he has learned as far as magic from past lives, from Morgana and others from pre-history.

I assume that Dr Strange will always be ranked above Doom in the hall of pure magic, but the same way Doom excels against Reed and Tony in technology by using magic, I think he excels against Stephen by using science. Stephen has some science background, being a physician, but he has never wielded it with the kind of creativity that Doom employs.

There is also a non-traditional way of thinking that allows Doom to excel in these matters, because he was never trained in a traditional manner (in either science or magic) and so he can draw from both fields in ways that the others don't even think about. That's not to say the others aren't intelligent, but that how we learn things at the beginning follows us and in many ways limits us to a particular way of thinking. Formal schooling is designed to teach people not just what to think but how to think, and for very intelligent people it is often teaching them to suppress their creativity. But school does give most people a foundational knowledge, although often from a point of bias toward other ways of thinking about problems. The fact that Doom was nearly 100% self-taught until well into his teen years just emphasizes how extraordinary his thought processes are, to be so successful all on his own. The same is true for his magic learning, which is why I'm certain in his mind there is little to no difference between what we would call technology and magic.

I actually think Doom is in a class all by himself because of this.

Doom is definitely is in a class of his own, but that class is still well below Steven Strange. He's definitely unique in both his thinking and application of that knowledge and skill, when it comes to both magic and technology. We know he infuses or enchants his various armours with magic for different defensive reasons. Another example would be in Triumph & Torment when he used his armour to read the mystical energies being cast by the Vishanti and also analyzed the skills and techniques being used by the different sorcerers in the contest. He then used this info to have his armour repeat those techniques, which allowed him to get further in the contest than he might have otherwise. Strange even mentions Doom's movements as being oddly mechanical and somehow seeming like his own techniques, which heavily implies Doom used his armour to analyze Stephen's abilities and then duplicate them. Some people might say Doom is cheating, but it's just Doom's way of learning and understanding. Stephen says more than once in that story how remarkably quickly Doom is able to learn. But what also tends to be overlooked in that story, is that once Doom turns on Strange to try and win the contest, Stephen quickly contains and defeats Doom and moves on to complete the contest on his own.

Doom may be traveling into other times and learning all kinds of arcane knowledge, but that's not the same as actually living through a thousand year war amongst gods and extradimensional entities like the Vishanti, Dormammu, Cyttorak etc. Doom's age and experience isn't extending while he's time-hopping, however Strange only appears to be a middle aged man, while in fact, he's extremely old.

[Doombot]

I always assumed Strange and Doom were different sides of the same coin?

The former being the "good" sorcerer and the latter being the "bad" sorcerer and each are constantly being pulled toward the other side, this is why we see corrupted Strange a lot and good Doom a lot.

Sure other humans are close but not to their levels; moreover, what makes them powerful is that they're human - not mutants, gods, enhanced individuals at all.

I agree with you somewhat, Doom can often seem like a good parallel for many characters, Strange, Tony Stark, etc. (His most direct counterpart being Reed of course) But the power levels just don't match up, and being a "bad" sorcerer does not bar you from becoming the Sorcerer Supreme. It's not really a mantle dependant on morality. There have been Sorcerer Supremes who have been very much not good people.

[charliehustle415]

I agree with you somewhat, Doom can often seem like a good parallel for many characters, Strange, Tony Stark, etc. (His most direct counterpart being Reed of course) But the power levels just don't match up, and being a "bad" sorcerer does not bar you from becoming the Sorcerer Supreme. It's not really a mantle dependant on morality. There have been Sorcerer Supremes who have been very much not good people.

ahh, sorry I was simply referring to pure magical skill sans The Eye of Agamotto or the title of Sorcerer Supreme (I guess that brings up a good question is Strange powerful without the Eye?)

[Doombot]

ahh, sorry I was simply referring to pure magical skill sans The Eye of Agamotto or the title of Sorcerer Supreme (I guess that brings up a good question is Strange powerful without the Eye?)

This is an interesting question, and maybe the guys over in the Dr Strange thread may know more, but I've never been quite sure whether being given the mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme actually gives the person more power. Aside from being given powerful items like the Eye or Agamotto and the Cloak of Levitation, I"m not sure if anything is bestowed upon the individual. It's a mantle, a sort of mystical job position, with the title holder being the most qualified. Sorcery isn't really powers that are given to you, which is why some many modern deconstruction arcs done to Dr Strange don't make any sense. Sorcery is the accumulation of skills and knowledge, I've never been sure how this can be taken away from Dr Strange. (barring the obvious like brain damage) Everything Dr Strange can do, he learned how to do. He simply knows more and is better at applying them than anyone else.