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  1. #556
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    This is an interesting question, and maybe the guys over in the Dr Strange thread may know more, but I've never been quite sure whether being given the mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme actually gives the person more power. Aside from being given powerful items like the Eye or Agamotto and the Cloak of Levitation, I"m not sure if anything is bestowed upon the individual. It's a mantle, a sort of mystical job position, with the title holder being the most qualified. Sorcery isn't really powers that are given to you, which is why some many modern deconstruction arcs done to Dr Strange don't make any sense. Sorcery is the accumulation of skills and knowledge, I've never been sure how this can be taken away from Dr Strange. (barring the obvious like brain damage) Everything Dr Strange can do, he learned how to do. He simply knows more and is better at applying them than anyone else.
    This is exactly my understanding of Strange and the only deconstruction that makes sense is when he gets corrupted and goes evil.

    Because if Sorcerer Supreme title does bestow a power boost then Doom is superior because his power is his own (usually)

  2. #557
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    I've never come across any stories where the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme give the mantle holder more power. I could be wrong, but I believe it is as I said earlier, a position of power that must be earned. What is bestowed upon the mantle holder is not power but responsibility. The person now has an entire realm to defend. Doom has great skills and is an extremely powerful opponent, but he does not have the skill set to become Sorcerer Supreme. As much as this chaps his ass lol
    Last edited by Doombot; 06-19-2022 at 08:43 PM.

  3. #558
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I've never come across any stories where the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme give the mantle holder more power. I could be wrong, but I believe it is as I said earlier, a position of power that must be earned. What is bestows upon the mantle holder is not power but responsibility. The person now has an entire realm to defend.
    but couldn't someone evil also have the mantle? what if they didn't want responsibility?

    hence my good sorcerer and bad sorcerer example from my previous posts

  4. #559
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    but couldn't someone evil also have the mantle? what if they didn't want responsibility?

    hence my good sorcerer and bad sorcerer example from my previous posts
    If they don't accept the responsibility why would they want to mantle? Besides the few perks of additional powerful objects like the Eye of Agamotto, all you would get would be a headache. You may imagine yourself as King of the Sorcerers and all powerful, but in reality, while you want to lay in bed and have forest nymphs feed you grapes, every other week entities like Dormammu or Nightmare are trying to kick in the back door of the universe. I honestly don't even know why Doom wants it, besides to say he has it.

  5. #560
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    If they don't accept the responsibility why would they want to mantle? Besides the few perks of additional powerful objects like the Eye of Agamotto, all you would get would be a headache. You may imagine yourself as King of the Sorcerers and all powerful, but in reality, while you want to lay in bed and have forest nymphs feed you grapes, every other week entities like Dormammu or Nightmare are trying to kick in the back door of the universe. I honestly don't even know why Doom wants it, besides to say he has it.
    That's true, I suppose we'll get an answer one of these days

  6. #561
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I've never come across any stories where the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme give the mantle holder more power. I could be wrong, but I believe it is as I said earlier, a position of power that must be earned. What is bestowed upon the mantle holder is not power but responsibility. The person now has an entire realm to defend. Doom has great skills and is an extremely powerful opponent, but he does not have the skill set to become Sorcerer Supreme. As much as this chaps his ass lol
    So how did Clea get to be Sorcerer Supreme without earning it? I guess she just appointed herself because she was the closest thing to Dr. Strange's widow or heir that she just assumed the title. I've not read the second issue of her mini yet though. But it seems to me that just because Strange is assumed dead or missing (we know he'll be back) that the title should just stay vacant unless the Aged Genghis summons another Trial of the Vishanti. She is SS of the Faltine but I don't know if that means you can just sub for someone else when the role is vacant.
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-21-2022 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    As much as I love Doom, and believe he is most likely a person whose skills are frighteningly powerful, he is not on par with Stephen Strange. I think many people forget, or don't realize, how truly powerful Dr. Strange is. Doom has learned much and gained even more skills over the years, but his skills are not at the same level as Strange. He has thousands of years worth experience and knowledge over Doom. This doesn't make Doom any less of a threat, but he does not have the same skill set Strange has.

    You also can't rank beings like Loki or the Enchantress, as not only are they magics wielders, but are themselves beings of magic. These are beings that are much more powerful than mortal sorcerers, but can be contained or thwarted by those with the skills and knowledge to do so. Like Strange or Doom. "Defeating" Mephisto or Dormammu doesn't make you more powerful than them, you've just put your abilities, knowledge and intelligence (and probably a little luck) into coming up with a way to halt their current mystical highjinks.

    Clea, Merlin, Dr Voodoo and Morgan LeFey are all powerful sorcerers and one could probably debate whether Doom belongs among this group or maybe a bit ahead of them.

    Magik, Wiccan and Wanda are not a skilled as Doom, although Wanda has much greater raw power due to her mutant abilities.
    We already know that Doom is more powerful than Morgan leFey. Check out their encounter in Dark Avengers. He was able to neutralize her and hurl her back to prehistoric times using magic. Even earlier than that he was able too keep her imprisoned in her castle back in Iron Man Legacy IIRC. We've yet to see a full out match with Clea...they just had a brief encounter in Clea #1.

    As for Stephen Strange and Doom, they were pretty much on good footing in Savage Avengers. They didn't spend their time opposing each other but it was a true team up IMO.
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-22-2022 at 09:18 AM.

  8. #563
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Default Victor von Doom ancestry and family relationships - Part 3

    Time to resume an examination of the family and ancestry of Victor Von Doom

    In previous entries Werner and Cynthia von Doom have been discussed. There was also a mention of a grandfather who made marionettes in Doom 2099. We have no clue as to whether this was a maternal or paternal grandfather. I don't think there's ever been mention of Cynthia von Doom's family name.

    But there was a brief mention of a grandmother from a rather unusual source.....a Doombot. But not just any Doombot. This is one of Doom's creations that has a life of his own outside of Latveria and took up residence with the Runaways. His origin really goes back to Avengers A.I. where he was forced to become one of the team when Hank Pym put a black hole in it's chest. And Tony Stark thought he had problems.





    His friendship with Victor Mancha in A.I. carried over into the Runaways title where he joined the group in their home as a sort of Mr Belevedere, if you're old enough to remember the TV show or the earlier films starring Clifton Webb. Here he joins them for some holiday festivities bringing a dish that his (?)/ Doom's paternal grandmother would make. Since Doombot comes equipped with Doom's memories I would have to assume this is Doom's memory of her.
    One has to wonder why Doom let's such personal memories become part of the Doombot A.I Could it have been a mistake? I suppose it's to help confuse the enemy into guessing whether or not they are confronting Doom or a Doombot.


    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-21-2022 at 08:54 PM.

  9. #564
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    So how did Clea get to be Sorcerer Supreme without earning it? I guess she just appointed herself because she was the closest thing to Dr. Strange's widow or heir that she just assumed the title. I've not read the second issue of her mini yet though. But it seems to me that just because Strange is assumed dead or missing (we know he'll be back) that the title should just stay vacant unless the Aged Genghis summons another Trial of the Vishanti. She is SS of the Faltine but I don't know if that means you can just sub for someone else when the role is vacant.
    Stephen requested it go to her in the event of his death. Which he has done in the past, request an individual take the mantle for a time he is unable to do it. Plus, in modern comics, we know the mantle has become a bit of a gimmick, with Stephen losing it every other week. The Trial of the Vishanti also doesn't seem to be something that must happen for the mantle to be passed, the current holder can also choose their successor. As the Ancient One did for Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    We already know that Doom is more powerful than Morgan leFey. Check out their encounter in Dark Avengers. He was able to neutralize her and hurl her back to prehistoric times using magic. Even earlier than that he was able too keep her imprisoned in her castle back in Iron Man Legacy IIRC. We've yet to see a full out match with Clea...they just had a brief encounter in Clea #1.

    As for Stephen Strange and Doom, they were pretty much on each footing in Savage Avengers. They didn't spend their time opposing each other but it was a true team up IMO.
    Having a team up doesn't require both parties to be of equal power. Dr Strange has teamed up with countless sorcerers. Also, Doom is a more popular character than Strange, as well as being the preeminent Marvel villain, they're not going to let him have a bad showing against Strange unless he turns heel and Strange has to stop him. Plus Strange & Doom together is always going to be fun storytelling.

    Just to be Devil's Advocate, when it comes to someone like LeFey, Doom has done nasty things to many characters who were more powerful than he is. (not saying she is or isn't as I'm not sure) That's his nature. He's a man who will use any ability and cunning he can muster to get what he wants, which is what makes him so dangerous, even to Stephen Strange.

  10. #565
    Mighty Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Time to resume an examination of the family and ancestry of Victor Von Doom

    In previous entries Werner and Cynthia von Doom have been discussed. There was also a mention of a grandfather who made marionettes in Doom 2099. We have no clue as to whether this was a maternal or paternal grandfather. I don't think there's ever been mention of Cynthia von Doom's family name.

    But there was a brief mention of a grandmother from a rather unusual source.....a Doombot. But not just any Doombot. This is one of Doom's creations that has a life of his own outside of Latveria and took up residence with the Runaways. His origin really goes back to Avengers A.I. where he was forced to become one of the team when Hank Pym put a black hole in it's chest. And Tony Stark thought he had problems.





    His friendship with Victor Mancha in A.I. carried over into the Runaways title where he joined the group in their home as a sort of Mr Belevedere, if you're old enough to remember the TV show or the earlier films starring Clifton Webb. Here he joins them for some holiday festivities bringing a dish that his (?)/ Doom's grandmother would make. Since Doombot come equipped with Doom's memories I would have to assume this is Doom's memory of her. But we have no idea if this would be his maternal or paternal grandmother.

    One has to wonder why Doom let's such personal memories become part of the Doombot A.I Could it have been a mistake? I suppose it's to help confuse the enemy into guessing whether or not they are confronting Doom or a Doombot.


    I find the whole idea of Doombots running around the MU to be very weird. I know it's really just a way for certain books and writers to have "Doom" on their teams or in there stories because Marvel would not allow the actual Doom to be used in such a way. But in-universe, there's no way Doom would allow any of his Doombots to be on these teams of among these people. He'd have them self destruct or he'd track them down and destroy them. Also, hasn't it been established in the past Doom can see everything any of his Doombots can see?

  11. #566
    Incredible Member DoomScribe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I find the whole idea of Doombots running around the MU to be very weird. I know it's really just a way for certain books and writers to have "Doom" on their teams or in there stories because Marvel would not allow the actual Doom to be used in such a way. But in-universe, there's no way Doom would allow any of his Doombots to be on these teams of among these people. He'd have them self destruct or he'd track them down and destroy them. Also, hasn't it been established in the past Doom can see everything any of his Doombots can see?
    Doom has had moles in forms of human like robots (not Doombots) in various places around the world, gathering intel. Some of them have no doubt been imbedded for years, acting like normal humans (ala The Americans spy show - anything the Russians can think of he can do better). It's fair to say that any active Doombot could be recalled at any time, if he so chooses, and having them observing and recording information is a win even if they appear to be compromised. He may even allow other people to think that they've disabled them. And Doom can't see everything his Doombots can see (or he wouldn't have had to ask that one Doombot about the scratch on his armor from Arcade's match strike, many years ago). But no doubt he can access their memories either through a physical or remote download, and information is always valuable.

    As to Doom's grandmother, IM - she wouldn't be "Baba von Doom" unless she came from his father's side. But I agree, I don't think that any writer has revealed Cynthia's family name. There is so much that could be told about Doom's Romani past and his Latervian family, I've delved into it for some fan fic years past. But Marvel hasn't followed through on that particular story nugget for 60 years, I often doubt that they ever will.
    "Because ... I am Doom
    ... What Gods dare stand against me?"


    Posting from the dungeon of Castle Doom, Latveria

  12. #567
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I find the whole idea of Doombots running around the MU to be very weird. I know it's really just a way for certain books and writers to have "Doom" on their teams or in there stories because Marvel would not allow the actual Doom to be used in such a way. But in-universe, there's no way Doom would allow any of his Doombots to be on these teams of among these people. He'd have them self destruct or he'd track them down and destroy them. Also, hasn't it been established in the past Doom can see everything any of his Doombots can see?
    Doom has shown a degree of sentimentality in regards to his Doombots in the past. I think after I finish up the family history of Doom I will dive into "Doombots I Have Known"

    But as for giving Doombots their independance, let's go back to the surprise ending to Books of Doom. A very old spoiler ahead to those who've not read it....




    In this example, the Doombot is kept in a cell in a dungeon of Castle Doom. But he has a sort of illusion of independence in that Doom allowed it to continue being Doom in his programming. It's not a stretch to believe that Doom also knows about the existence of the Doombot in Runaways. I think he feels that it is harmless to allow this one to have its own existence. He may even check in on it once in a while. I think Doom may even have a kind of peculiar sentimental attachment to these two Doombots. Unfortunately I don't think we will see much of Doombot anymore since Runaways was cancelled. I kind of miss him to be honest.

    There is another Doombot that has a life of their own out there but that's a tale for another time....
    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-21-2022 at 09:27 PM.

  13. #568
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoomScribe View Post
    Doom has had moles in forms of human like robots (not Doombots) in various places around the world, gathering intel. Some of them have no doubt been imbedded for years, acting like normal humans (ala The Americans spy show - anything the Russians can think of he can do better). It's fair to say that any active Doombot could be recalled at any time, if he so chooses, and having them observing and recording information is a win even if they appear to be compromised. He may even allow other people to think that they've disabled them. And Doom can't see everything his Doombots can see (or he wouldn't have had to ask that one Doombot about the scratch on his armor from Arcade's match strike, many years ago). But no doubt he can access their memories either through a physical or remote download, and information is always valuable.

    As to Doom's grandmother, IM - she wouldn't be "Baba von Doom" unless she came from his father's side. But I agree, I don't think that any writer has revealed Cynthia's family name. There is so much that could be told about Doom's Romani past and his Latervian family, I've delved into it for some fan fic years past. But Marvel hasn't followed through on that particular story nugget for 60 years, I often doubt that they ever will.
    Good points, Doomscribe.

    And thanks for pointing my failure to note the obvious in that Baba von Doom would be the paternal grandmother. I made the correction in the post. And you are right about Marvel not showing much interest in Doom's Romani past anymore. My fear is that once he does appear in the MCU Doom's Romani heritage will be expunged because of a possible controversy. I know I read in the Sub Mariner thread that there is one of those click bait rumors that Namor's heritage will be Mayan. One hopes that's a false one.

  14. #569
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    Another reason to keep around Doombots that display autonomy or sentience is scientific curiosity. It has to be fascinating when one of the Doombot AIs behaves in new and unexpected ways and that knowledge can be used to build better and more powerful versions of AI death machines, always a plus for Victor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Doom has shown a degree of sentimentality in regards to his Doombots in the past. I think after I finish up the family history of Doom I will dive into "Doombots I Have Known"

    But as for giving Doombots their independance, let's go back to the surprise ending to Books of Doom. A very old spoiler ahead to those who've not read it....




    In this example, the Doombot is kept in a cell in a dungeon of Castle Doom. But he has a sort of illusion of independence in that Doom allowed it to continue being Doom in his programming. It's not a stretch to believe that Doom also knows about the existence of the Doombot in Runaways. I think he feels that it is harmless to allow this one to have its own existence. He may even check in on it once in a while. I think Doom may even have a kind of peculiar sentimental attachment to these two Doombots. Unfortunately I don't think we will see much of Doombot anymore since Runaways was cancelled. I kind of miss him to be honest.

    There is another Doombot that has a life of their own out there but that's a tale for another time....

  15. #570
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    And now for something completely different, my newest Doom Funko Pop - the Mech Strike Monster Hunter edition. He became my 7th Doom Funko figure and I have them all being overseen by the Diamond Select Doom diorama figure that came out last year as I recall.




    As you can see in the above photo that's just part of my Funko collection. Funkos may not be for everyone but they sure are trying hard to make one to suit everybody! Recently I also finally found the Wanda Vision Agatha to go along with the Trick or Treat Wanda and Vision. I also have the entire Fantastic Four wave except I don't have all the variants. I draw the line there.

    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 06-22-2022 at 03:22 PM.

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