Doctor Doom Appreciation 2022 - Scientist, Sorcerer, Romani, King

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks! I didn't realize Silver Sable and Symkaria debuted in ASM. I think the first things I read with her were from her solo series.

[ARkadelphia]

You mean that they have a daughter together that he doesn't know about?

Correct. Does he know about the daughter he doesn’t know about?

[Iron Maiden]

Correct. Does he know about the daughter he doesn’t know about?

No, they have never met. I don't think Morgan has broken the news to him. That would be an intersting conversation and I'd like to see Cantwell follow up on that. But I can understand why he wouldn't want to deal with it. I would like to see this followed up but as I mentioned, I think the daughter character needs to be revamped. I didn't find her to be very interesting in Fearless Defenders. I'd like to see a younger more impetuous take on her. It's just too strange to see that Morgan's daughter looks older that she does!

[Will Evans]

Thanks! I didn't realize Silver Sable and Symkaria debuted in ASM. I think the first things I read with her were from her solo series.

Yes, she’s considered a spider-Man character. Which is why Sony has the movie rights to her.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes, she’s considered a spider-Man character. Which is why Sony has the movie rights to her.

I didn't realize that Sony had some movie plans for her....she hasn't appeared yet has she? If so, I must have missed it or it went over my head!

[Cronus]

I have a very serious announcement to make...

Doctor Doom is the greatest super-villain in the history of super-villains!



That is all.

[Cronus]

It's not just you, I feel this way too. I think part of the reason why is because writers keep using characters like Doom, Namor, Thor, whomever is supposed to be the strongest/best in their field and having characters tear them down to make that character look better. I can't speak for World War M, bc like Peter David is writing it and it's a Hulk book so it's Hulk's circus, but in general like Slott and others have been making Doom less.. Doom and more like an idea of what they think Doom is. A lot of tearing him down (many books, FF, WWM) and stuff like him casually taking off his mask (savage avengers) just feels like writers don't write him like he was used to be written. He is a complex character with strengths and flaws, but most of all he is a very smart character and it's supposed to be hard to get the upper hand with Doom.

It's an unfortunate trope. I've seen it applied to Thor, Galactus and now it seems, Doom.

[Cronus]

QFT. I've said it before that I've been frustrated with PAD's use of this Maestro as his lead character. He's far worse than Doom. He ruthlessly kills people as when he killed this AU Namor's wife and son for no reason. Namor was offering him a truce and never even attacked him. Doom has better counter moves than PAD allows against a brutish character like Maestro . The only thing that will make it worth while is to finally see Maestro get stomped by Namor, the Abomination (who's loved ones Maestro also killed) and whatever Doom uses. He may have to use a Doombot side he's still recovering. But it will probably not go that way.

Isn't it funny? It's like your first love...you never forget that individual. Ever. And everything else is judged by that. I remember looking for other characters to get into after I became disenchanted with Thor.

But what was I really looking for? Thor.

I just hope my Dr. Doom doesn't go that way.

*sigh*

[Iron Maiden]

Doom's next appearance will be in the May issue of Fantastic Four and he will be going up against the Cormorrant. I'm looking forward to that at least even though I am really getting disappointed in Dan Slott's Fantastic Four. Usually when Doom goes up against a villain he comes ends up with the win.



THE RECKONING WAR CONTINUES!
• "Victor Von Doom: Hero of Earth"
• The last time the Cormorant appeared, he destroyed the Baxter Building and the Latverian Embassy, completely overpowered the Fantastic Four, and left without anyone laying a hand on him.
• Now, for the sake of the universe, Doctor Doom must face him alone. Hail Doom!
• Meanwhile, four of Earth's greatest heroes are trapped in the toxic wastelands of the Barrens...and there is no way for all of them to make it out alive.
• Guest-starring: The Silver Surfer, She-Hulk, and an army of Marvel's most cosmic champions!

[Iron Maiden]

For those who may not have picked up the last issue of the Thing or the latest issue of the Fantasic Four, here's a run down of events

First of all, writer Walter Mosley's The Thing series ended this week and features Doctor Doom, who was also in last months' issue #5. This series was just not my cup of tea. First of all, the the stylings of the artist is a bit unconventional, they lose me right off. After all, that's half of the experience. If I find the style unappealing it makes me want to page through it faster (and I did buy this series from it's first issue)

It takes place at some point in the past but I really didn't try to nail it down. But when Doom shows up in issue #5, we do get a clear idea that it definitely takes place after the events of Triumph and Torment.



Mosely gives us another take on this by having Cynthia Von Doom now in the land of the Dead ruled by Mistress Death. Mistress Death has been in the series since the beginning but spoilers:

in disguise

end of spoilers So once again Victor has to undertake a rescue of his mother. IMO this doesn't make that much sense. I mean if she's dead this is where she is supposed to be. Marvel pretty much avoids a specific concept of Heaven. Doom's mother earned her redemption in the earlier story so it's not clear why she is in this kingdom that is ruled by Mistress Death. It's not like Hell or the Underworld kingdoms ruled by entities like Mephisto, Belasco, etc. One gets the sense that Roger Stern's graphic novel may be the only Doom story that author Walter Mosley has read. Mistress Death had tried to force Ben to be her consort by kidnapping Alicia and Ben's sets out to rescue her with Doom's help. Mistress Death however imprisons Doom and he really doesn't do much here but Ben uses the resources Doom brought with him....a robot army. Alls well that ends well as they say...Alicia is freed and Doom gets to see his mother again. Doom wants his mother to return to the land of the living within but she says she can't and she belongs with the dead. rating: C+. IMO this was just a bit too bizarre with the quirky art and some peculiar and sometimes stilted dialogue by the writer.

Then we get to Doom's one page appearance in Fantastic Four #42. This page mostly serves as a lead in to next month's battle when the Cormorrant returns. Slott has be featuriing some of the well know objects of power in the Universe which the Comorrnant was seeking earlier in the run without success. At least he wasn't finding the one he was looking for.

I was trying to figure out why the Everglades is the setting for this appearance and really couldn't think of any reason why Doom is here. The only thing I can say is the last time I remember Doom being in this locale was in a multi-part story in the Sub-Mariner series that concerned a search for the Cosmic Cube. update: I did go back and check and there's an opening scene in Sub-Mariner #48 that takes place in the Mississippi bayous .

[DoomScribe]

For those who may not have picked up the last issue of the Thing or the latest issue of the Fantasic Four, here's a run down of events

First of all, writer Walter Mosley's The Thing series ended this week and features Doctor Doom, who was also in last months' issue #5. This series was just not my cup of tea. First of all, the the stylings of the artist is a bit unconventional, they lose me right off. After all, that's half of the experience. If I find the style unappealing it makes me want to page through it faster (and I did buy this series from it's first issue)

It's rare that I finish a comic book like The Thing #6 and my only impression is how awful it is. OK there were a few from Slott/Allred's FF that left me feeling the same. But this one was really awful. The writing was like something a ten-year old might do. No offense to ten-year olds. When I see that I sometimes think that it's being written for a ten-year old. But it's more than that. There are also plot jumps that are difficult to make sense of, and dangling, unexplained elements that need some exposition. Meanwhile, other panels of action either don't make sense or cram multiple events into one panel. I often see that when the series gets cut off at fewer issues than the writer wanted, or they couldn't reach the end they wanted in this issue and they had to make massive cuts to get it to fit. Like the story jump cuts past elements that you want to see more of, but spends an inordinate amount of time on other scenes that could be shortened. There are also inconsistencies that are just glaring. Thing is wearing a helmet, then not wearing it, then told if he wears it he will see into Death's realm, then all of a sudden they are in Death's realm. It's just weird and disjointed. The dialogue is repetitive and unoriginal. Plus, Doom's mom appearing as blonde (or is that supposed to be gray?) really Marvel, do better.
The Thing 006 pg a.jpg
The art is reminiscent of the Allred stuff on FF also, very cartoony and I do not care for it either IM. Thankfully, Doom's presence in this issue is peripheral and inconsequential. Although I sense the team had some respect for the Doom character, so at least they didn't butcher him.

ds

[Iron Maiden]

It's rare that I finish a comic book like The Thing #6 and my only impression is how awful it is. OK there were a few from Slott/Allred's FF that left me feeling the same. But this one was really awful. The writing was like something a ten-year old might do. No offense to ten-year olds. When I see that I sometimes think that it's being written for a ten-year old. But it's more than that. There are also plot jumps that are difficult to make sense of, and dangling, unexplained elements that need some exposition. Meanwhile, other panels of action either don't make sense or cram multiple events into one panel. I often see that when the series gets cut off at fewer issues than the writer wanted, or they couldn't reach the end they wanted in this issue and they had to make massive cuts to get it to fit. Like the story jump cuts past elements that you want to see more of, but spends an inordinate amount of time on other scenes that could be shortened. There are also inconsistencies that are just glaring. Thing is wearing a helmet, then not wearing it, then told if he wears it he will see into Death's realm, then all of a sudden they are in Death's realm. It's just weird and disjointed. The dialogue is repetitive and unoriginal. Plus, Doom's mom appearing as blonde (or is that supposed to be gray?) really Marvel, do better.
The Thing 006 pg a.jpg
The art is reminiscent of the Allred stuff on FF also, very cartoony and I do not care for it either IM. Thankfully, Doom's presence in this issue is peripheral and inconsequential. Although I sense the team had some respect for the Doom character, so at least they didn't butcher him.

ds

I agree...at least this story has very little impact. Apparently it takes place in the past and the writer really gives very little to go by. Alicia is stll the girl friend and not Ben's wife. And very little is seen of the rest of the FF or Frankin and Valeria.

I don't mean to insult artists because typically in the realm of comic book production, the artist's job can be quite detailed and takes the longest to complete. It's easy to write "the Thing and Doom get into a fight" but much harder to actually draw it IMO. But many panels in tis look like they took many 5 or 10 minutes to execute.

And looking at those pages again, why is Doom's mask different from how it looked earlier? Instead of metal, it looks like leather stitched together. Did something happen while he was being held prisoner that was dropped from the story?

As for the writing, since so little of it involves the rest of the FF that I wonder if it is because the writer isn't that well read on them or Doom for that matter other than what you can find on a wiki page.

[ImperiusWrecked]

My friend posted some side by side comparisons of Marvel light/whitewashing Romani characters again. This is the second time in less than a year or so that a Romani character who has always had dark hair, is made into a blonde, first with Victor and Valeria, second with Cynthia. Marvel quietly changed the color for Victor and Valeria after it must have come to their attention from fan letters (only the digital version) however here it is again with Cynthia, and I don't think that is grey hair it look blonde to me. As for the story I give up hope that anyone except Cantwell at this point will give us a good Doom.

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks for posting that update on the whitewashing of Romani characters. It's sad when Marvel editorial is so lax these kind of things. I know a lot of this is probably due to lack of knowledge on the editorial side. I know Tom Brevoort can't be everywhere but someone should have caught that. When Marvel gets new art talent they should give them some basic knowledge of the Marvel character they will be working on. Julius Ohta is the artist on Wasterlanders: Doom and other than this faux pas, he does a very good job, especially compared to suffering through the art on that Thing series cited above.

I did snip another panel from the Thing series and the coloring is a bit different here so who knows? Here the hair of Cynthia von Doom looks as gray as Doom's armor.

[Darkshadow]

For those who may not have picked up the last issue of the Thing or the latest issue of the Fantasic Four, here's a run down of events

First of all, writer Walter Mosley's The Thing series ended this week and features Doctor Doom, who was also in last months' issue #5. This series was just not my cup of tea. First of all, the the stylings of the artist is a bit unconventional, they lose me right off. After all, that's half of the experience. If I find the style unappealing it makes me want to page through it faster (and I did buy this series from it's first issue)

It takes place at some point in the past but I really didn't try to nail it down. But when Doom shows up in issue #5, we do get a clear idea that it definitely takes place after the events of Triumph and Torment.



Mosely gives us another take on this by having Cynthia Von Doom now in the land of the Dead ruled by Mistress Death. Mistress Death has been in the series since the beginning but spoilers:

in disguise

end of spoilers So once again Victor has to undertake a rescue of his mother. IMO this doesn't make that much sense. I mean if she's dead this is where she is supposed to be. Marvel pretty much avoids a specific concept of Heaven. Doom's mother earned her redemption in the earlier story so it's not clear why she is in this kingdom that is ruled by Mistress Death. It's not like Hell or the Underworld kingdoms ruled by entities like Mephisto, Belasco, etc. One gets the sense that Roger Stern's graphic novel may be the only Doom story that author Walter Mosley has read. Mistress Death had tried to force Ben to be her consort by kidnapping Alicia and Ben's sets out to rescue her with Doom's help. Mistress Death however imprisons Doom and he really doesn't do much here but Ben uses the resources Doom brought with him....a robot army. Alls well that ends well as they say...Alicia is freed and Doom gets to see his mother again. Doom wants his mother to return to the land of the living within but she says she can't and she belongs with the dead. rating: C+. IMO this was just a bit too bizarre with the quirky art and some peculiar and sometimes stilted dialogue by the writer.

Then we get to Doom's one page appearance in Fantastic Four #42. This page mostly serves as a lead in to next month's battle when the Cormorrant returns. Slott has be featuriing some of the well know objects of power in the Universe which the Comorrnant was seeking earlier in the run without success. At least he wasn't finding the one he was looking for.

I was trying to figure out why the Everglades is the setting for this appearance and really couldn't think of any reason why Doom is here. The only thing I can say is the last time I remember Doom being in this locale was in a multi-part story in the Sub-Mariner series that concerned a search for the Cosmic Cube. update: I did go back and check and there's an opening scene in Sub-Mariner #48 that takes place in the Mississippi bayous .

That last panel taking place in the Everglades could have something to do with the Nexus of All Realities. Perhaps Doom plan is to fight there over whatever this mystery object is so that if he starts losing, he can toss it into the Nexus where the Cormorant won't be able to find it?

Also, I'm not read up on what exactly the M'rkan (sp?) crystal is, but the Reckoning were interested in it. So they do seem to be drawn to nexus type devices.