Doctor Doom Appreciation 2022 - Scientist, Sorcerer, Romani, King

[Lucyinthesky]

Thanks! We all want an awesome Victor for 2022

He will, I am looking forward to see his role there , I am curious to see what he´s going to do now that he has Dormamus power after the Anhiliation War, the Reckoning looks like it´s going to be all about the comic entities at marvel so it´s a good idea he´s preparing for it already.

I also think he will be great in next week issue of Darkhold omega, along with Wanda.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes, I want to see if Wanda and Victor reluctantly team up. IMO writers over the years have gotten their relationship wrong, starting with her rage against Victor in Axis. I've posted this many times and I still think the ending of Children's Crusade is fairly clear that

1. Wanda was not angry with Doom and accepted a lot of the responsibility for House of M. The Doom that was presented in HOM was an AU version since his mother is shown to be alive along with Valeria.
2. Heinberg implies via Wolverine's dialogue that Doom was covering for Wanda at the end when he took on all the blame. I think Wanda knew this too.

In any case we really know that it's all Bendis's fault for playing a big part in how Wanda was burdened with this act that I don't think she would ever have done in the first place.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Iron Maiden, Rev mentioned in the Namor thread that you might want to check out the Doom Graphic Guide I made the other year and here it is. I am hoping to update it when I am done with all my Doom comic reading!

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, I want to see if Wanda and Victor reluctantly team up. IMO writers over the years have gotten their relationship wrong, starting with her rage against Victor in Axis. I've posted this many times and I still think the ending of Children's Crusade is fairly clear that

1. Wanda was not angry with Doom and accepted a lot of the responsibility for House of M. The Doom that was presented in HOM was an AU version since his mother is shown to be alive along with Valeria.
2. Heinberg implies via Wolverine's dialogue that Doom was covering for Wanda at the end when he took on all the blame. I think Wanda knew this too.

In any case we really know that it's all Bendis's fault for playing a big part in how Wanda was burdened with this act that I don't think she would ever have done in the first place.

I believe marvel changed their minds and decided to go with the version of Axis but fans just didn´t buy it because as you said, Heinberg implied Victor was blaming himself, as Wolverine said "A man in love would say anything" to help her get back to her life and most characters knew or suspected it, this also explains why Magneto accepted Doom´s version of the story at the end of CC and yet never blamed Doom for anything related to decimation or HoM which only could happen if he didn´t believe he did it either.

Now about Wanda, while I do believe she cared for Victor and would not blame him for HoM, I could see her being mad at him for using her power for his own interests, after she had time to think about it,because that would mean he only cared about her for her power and not for herself as a person and Wanda is more than tired of having people more interested in her power than in her.

So I think their interaction on Darkhold makes sense and it´s a nice middle point, Wanda knows Victor and trusts him to team up to stop Chthon but also gets annoyed when his ego gets in the way of them working together while Victor respects her power and her knowledge so I think at this point they are no longer romantically interested in each other but there´s mutual respect between them and that´s a good basis for future stories.

[Iron Maiden]

Iron Maiden, Rev mentioned in the Namor thread that you might want to check out the Doom Graphic Guide I made the other year and here it is. I am hoping to update it when I am done with all my Doom comic reading!

Thanks! If you don't mind I can move this to the post where I have the other reading materials.

[Iron Maiden]

I believe marvel changed their minds and decided to go with the version of Axis but fans just didn´t buy it because as you said, Heinberg implied Victor was blaming himself, as Wolverine said "A man in love would say anything" to help her get back to her life and most characters knew or suspected it, this also explains why Magneto accepted Doom´s version of the story at the end of CC and yet never blamed Doom for anything related to decimation or HoM which only could happen if he didn´t believe he did it either.

Now about Wanda, while I do believe she cared for Victor and would not blame him for HoM, I could see her being mad at him for using her power for his own interests, after she had time to think about it,because that would mean he only cared about her for her power and not for herself as a person and Wanda is more than tired of having people more interested in her power than in her.

So I think their interaction on Darkhold makes sense and it´s a nice middle point, Wanda knows Victor and trusts him to team up to stop Chthon but also gets annoyed when his ego gets in the way of them working together while Victor respects her power and her knowledge so I think at this point they are no longer romantically interested in each other but there´s mutual respect between them and that´s a good basis for future stories.

I agree....there is this tension between them because after all she spent quite a bit of time living under his roof. He provided her with a stable environment which probably helped her to recover. And he didn't sleep with her right off like Hawkeye did That was soooo questionable since Clint obviously knew she was amnesiac. Heinberg does throw him a bone there with the Wandabot but we can only guess when the switch was made.

I do like that Doom has gone through a period of transition. He's not the raving OTT super-villain of the 1960s and 70s and the heroes actually give him some degree of respect and trust. His relationship with Stephen has grown to a sort of friendship esp. in Savage Avengers. He can hold somewhat normal conversations with Tony or Stephen in a manner which never, ever happens with Reed.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree....there is this tension between them because after all she spent quite a bit of time living under his roof. He provided her with a stable environment which probably helped her to recover. And he didn't sleep with her right off like Hawkeye did That was soooo questionable since Clint obviously knew she was amnesiac. Heinberg does throw him a bone there with the Wandabot but we can only guess when the switch was made.

Yes when I read that story for the first time it was such a let down because I thought marvel was finally going to bring back Wanda and instead I actually got mad at Clint and had a good laugh after Heinberg changed it for a Doombot even if it doesn´t quite make sense either, I don´t think Victor makes his Doombot´s "that" accurate ;D but I will take it.

I do like that Doom has gone through a period of transition. He's not the raving OTT super-villain of the 1960s and 70s and the heroes actually give him some degree of respect and trust. His relationship with Stephen has grown to a sort of friendship esp. in Savage Avengers. He can hold somewhat normal conversations with Tony or Stephen in a manner which never, ever happens with Reed.

I liked this too, my favourite parts of Savage Avengers were Stephen and Victor arguments and talks, they were close before but now after their alliance during Secret Wars I think Dr Strange does consider Doom as a kind of friend or at least someone he can trust in a crisis even if he knows they may have to fight at some point because of their different methods, same with Tony but Reed, I guess it will always be hard because Reed just brings Victor´s competitive side to much and sometimes it even looks like he does this on purpose, there´s some potential for them to have a friendship but it will take some work on both their parts

[Iron Maiden]

Yes when I read that story for the first time it was such a let down because I thought marvel was finally going to bring back Wanda and instead I actually got mad at Clint and had a good laugh after Heinberg changed it for a Doombot even if it doesn´t quite make sense either, I don´t think Victor makes his Doombot´s "that" accurate ;D but I will take it.

Yes, that would be really crazy if Clint had relations with a Doombot. That happened in movie Blade Runner though,right?

I liked this too, my favourite parts of Savage Avengers were Stephen and Victor arguments and talks, they were close before but now after their alliance during Secret Wars I think Dr Strange does consider Doom as a kind of friend or at least someone he can trust in a crisis even if he knows they may have to fight at some point because of their different methods, same with Tony but Reed, I guess it will always be hard because Reed just brings Victor´s competitive side to much and sometimes it even looks like he does this on purpose, there´s some potential for them to have a friendship but it will take some work on both their parts

There have been some AU's where they are on better terms but I think they are too far apart now, esp after the wedding fiasco. I still think that was badly plotted by Slott, considering the relationship that Christopher Cantwell built up between Victor and Zora in his Doom series. Doom wrote in his journal that thought of her as the daughter he never had. He could have always made her a princess or some other title to raise her rank instead of making her is wife.

[Reviresco]

Happy New Year, fellow Doom fans! Excellent opening posts, Iron Maiden!

Here are Doom's first new appearances of 2022 and the previews look pretty good.

CBR has an exclusive first look

I'm really looking forward to this, for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with such an awesome cover!

Darkhold has been a mixed bag. It wasn't what I was expecting at all.

[Iron Maiden]

Happy New Year, fellow Doom fans! Excellent opening posts, Iron Maiden!




I'm really looking forward to this, for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with such an awesome cover!

Darkhold has been a mixed bag. It wasn't what I was expecting at all.

I was hoping for more with Wanda and Doom since they've not had much interaction since the Children's Crusade except for Axis as discussed above. I wish that writers would get to the point where Wanda doesn't hold a grudge anymore. Of the two outings this week I think the Wastlelanders one will be the better of the two. I am not familiar with the creative team but it certainly looks promising.

[Force de Phenix]

[Iron Maiden]

Interesting choice of panels. It's been a long time since I've read the FF with spikey Thing. Thanks...I like these better that the first choice you made

[Ravin' Ray]

Just tweeted by Bill Sienkiewicz:

https://twitter.com/sinKEVitch/statu...03854561361923

[Force de Phenix]

Interesting choice of panels. It's been a long time since I've read the FF with spikey Thing. Thanks...I like these better that the first choice you made

I'd love to see him go against the X-Men, inhumans and Avengers, and this scene in the MCU.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, that would be really crazy if Clint had relations with a Doombot. That happened in movie Blade Runner though,right?

I have not seen Blade Runner yet but yes, it´s quite crazy which I guess helps to sell the story because "comics" but also because he was not really aware it was a doombot, it´s still a mess but is better than leaving it as Bendis did, it isnt a good look for Clint that instead of helping Wanda when she was amnesiac, that he just decided to sleep with her and just leave her there without helping her since he´s supposed to be her friend. This doombot retcon doens´t erase that but at least it wasn´t really Wanda.

There have been some AU's where they are on better terms but I think they are too far apart now, esp after the wedding fiasco. I still think that was badly plotted by Slott, considering the relationship that Christopher Cantwell built up between Victor and Zora in his Doom series. Doom wrote in his journal that thought of her as the daughter he never had. He could have always made her a princess or some other title to raise her rank instead of making her is wife.

You know, I think Slott and Cantwell are writting a different version of Zora and that´s the problem. Slott always wrote her as the right hand woman of Victor, unconditional supporter of Latveria and the one who managed to push him towards leading the country once again while Doom was deppressed for not being able to become a superhero and Cantwell introduced Zora´s backstory with her parents that definitely puts her in Kristoff place as Doom´s heir, right hand and emotional support. So my guess is that Slott didn´t want to erase his original version of Zora and Doom story so he went with a marriage for them, even if it was a ceremonial one instead of an adoption, I could see Slott version of Zora agreeging while it would be strange for Cantwell Zora to do so. In the end I think this is why the marriage was a dead end from the beggining because Slott could not take back the changes Cantwell introduced in the dynamic with Zora and Victor but he seems to be ok with going on with her being his right hand.

About Reed, what I liked about "Bride of Doom" was that both Reed and Victor were really trying this time, like Reed didn´t want to use the opotunity to spy Doom and Victor stopped all his projects to attack the FF4 and it was nice to see the main reason behind that is that at some level both admit the other is the one person who can really challenge them intellectually and if they couldo only get over their issues, they could even be friends at some point. I think Reed remembers that other AU Victor who´s his friend who asked him to not give up on his own Victor and I think after Cantwell series it´s clear Doom is starting to feel alone and in need of having a positive relationship with people he can see as his equal and the closest person of that for him is Reed. That´s how I see it.