Gwen Stacy: Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider Appreciation Thread 2022

[Kurolegacy]

A vast majority of the last run was completely ignored.

What happened to the Storm siblings? Guess they were taken care of off-panel.

Is the Jackal still trapped on E65? *Shrug*

What happened to the symbiote MJ had? Not mentioned at all.

What’s the point of having editors if they can’t be bothered with doing their jobs? It’s not even like they had to dig deep to figure that this story is a plot hole when her previous story was last year.

[Dron]

What’s the point of having editors if they can’t be bothered with doing their jobs? It’s not even like they had to dig deep to figure that this story is a plot hole when her previous story was last year.

Maybe that old philosophy "treat every comic like it's someone's first." This is a mini, not an ongoing or a tie in. The story by it's mini nature is going to be pretty self contained. Keeping this vague allows the story to be slotted in wherever. Just to go through that checklist of plotpoints would take like 3 paragraphs to both explain and contextulize. Then after that exposition dump NONE of it would be relevant to the actual plot of the mini.

[Frontier]

I think we can criticize Marvel for how they've handled this. I think it's fair to criticize Marvel for how they've handled this.

Between Peter (and by extension Ben and Kaine), Miles, Miguel, Jessica, Cindy, Anya, Julia, Mattie, Gwen, Mayday, the RYV Parker family... Not one of them is a canon LGBTQ+ character. They need to be called out for this.

I'm sure someone will fill that role eventually. Or not. I'm not sure what priorities Marvel Editorial have with their Spiders right now.

One thing I will say is that E65 MJ needs to stop being portrayed as an angry unlikable queer foil.

But that's basically EmJay's entire character .

So, for example, would a Gwen book from a top tier team where she and MJ worked through their differences and then entered into a relationship not sell? Or would it sell just because it's a Gwen book? Or would it make people excited because a Spider was depicted as LGBTQ+?

Considering the last Gwen run, I think it'd be lucky to hit two trades.

What’s the point of having editors if they can’t be bothered with doing their jobs? It’s not even like they had to dig deep to figure that this story is a plot hole when her previous story was last year.

Maybe that old philosophy "treat every comic like it's someone's first." This is a mini, not an ongoing or a tie in. The story by it's mini nature is going to be pretty self contained. Keeping this vague allows the story to be slotted in wherever. Just to go through that checklist of plotpoints would take like 3 paragraphs to both explain and contextulize. Then after that exposition dump NONE of it would be relevant to the actual plot of the mini.

They probably just wanted a one-and-done Gwen mini without needing to address too much plot beyond what's in the mini, so all the classic trappings are in it and everything else is just...not.

[Cornbread11]

I just don't see a romantic relationship between these two that would both be A. plausible or B. healthy even if EmJay has a lot of romantic frustration regarding Gwen. Personality-wise they're just not a great fit.

Agreed, plus I really canÂ’t picture this SpiderGwen being lgbtq at ALL. Personally I rather they leave her as is. If they want a spider person to represent that side of things than ultimate Jessica is the way to go or they could introduce a new spider based hero in the multiverse that is queer from the start and see how the fans and casual audience respond to it. I think they need to start taking more risk by just creating new characters there is no need to change the ones that came before that already have a solid following imo. I know not everybody feels the sameway that I do but thatÂ’s just my two cents on it.

[eratas123]

So I'm reading through Gwenverse right now and Gwen's back in her home universe? And MJ's back to normal with no hint of Carnage? Is this supposed to be canon or what? What happened to the Storm siblings threatening her to gtfo? Cause it seems like it given that Gwen's identity is still public knowledge and she mentions 616 college.

Also, apparently Gwen and MJ started the band when they were kids…cause GWEN wanted attention. Huh? When was Gwen ever established as attention whore? I thought that was Mj's shtick in this verse.

EDIT:

So I read Gwenverse. Maybe it's just me but I'm not really interested in the alternate verse shenanigans and more on Gwen's character, especially how she perceives herself and her relationships. When her dad calls her out on Spidering on 616 she says that over there she has hero friends and she actually feels cool rather than being a freak or a circus attraction.

She also frames her relationship with her dad and MJ in an interesting manner. Her dad is scared of the future (where she continously risks her life as a hero) while MJ is fixated on the past and returning to the relationship she had with Gwen before she got powers (which Gwen says is impossible). This causes her a lot of angst cause she feels like past or future she's failing everyone around her.

Part of this is also framed with the differences in the verses. Gwen states that her world is 'low super', referencing the fact that there are no Avengers, alien invasions or doomsday scenarios. Her dad also brings this up, stating that 'a little danger' in 616 is basically doomsday even compared to 'a lot of danger' on Earth-65. This indirectly brings up how Gwen is actually really powerful for her setting vien that she's basically 616 Spidey sans the experience.

Apparently the different Gwens are representative of one personality quirk of Gwen to the extreme. ThorGwen is apparently Gwen's desire to be adored. Again, when was Gwen being an attention whore ever indicated? She never shows this. MJ shows this trait, not Gwen. Gwenom vs Carnage even indicated that Gwen didn't care about starting a band.

The closest thing I can think of is that she used her powers for fame at first but literally every Spider sans Miles does that. Was Peter Parker an attention whore? Not really. It feels weird that they're stapling this to her characterization when she barely ever cared about fame beforehand and actively ran away from it:



Also, I have to say it: MJ's either being written as queerbait or the writers have no fucking clue how she comes across. I mean look at this:



Seriously? If Gwen was a guy readers would absolutely think MJ wants in her pants with no ambiguity. The issue is if that's what they're angling for then they absolutely failed given that this MJ is fucking terrible:

- She's controlling: Demands Gwen's time despite her other responsibilities. When Gwen started Heroes for Hire she got pissy and even demanded she move back in with Betty if rent was an issue.

- Guilt tripping: This panel and others where she tries to make Gwen feel bad for the band not being her priority.

- Projecting: Calls her an attention whore because one of Gwen's spiders accidentally landed on her.

- Jealous: Grumbles that she wishes she had powers instead of Gwen.

- Obsessive: Flashbacks in Gwenom vs Carnage show her fixating on Gwen being a bad friend when the flashbacks just show Gwen not being as invested as MJ into something, which is hardly horrible.

Why the hell is Gwen still friends with her? She's clearly toxic at this point and obsessed with recreating her pre-Spiderwoman friendship with Gwen, which Gwen herself points out isn't possible anymore.

[Spiderfan001]

Emjay's a mess lmfao

[Mercwmouth12]

What's going to happen is Gwen will make some changes to her timeline inadvertently and EM Jay and Gwens dad attitude will be changed and Gwen will too. It's a character evolution story. Clear from her interactions with the various heroes of her self and seeing how different but similar they are to her

[eratas123]

What's going to happen is Gwen will make some changes to her timeline inadvertently and EM Jay and Gwens dad attitude will be changed and Gwen will too. It's a character evolution story. Clear from her interactions with the various heroes of her self and seeing how different but similar they are to her

I love how in the first verse Gwen visits MJ is super kind and gushing over her being a hero...then she immediately tries to snitch Gwen out when robo dad sees her. Honestly at this point it seems like whoever's writing Spider-Gwen post Latour is just doing blatant character assassination towards any MJ we see. The last good one we saw was from the Gwen Goblin verse.

[Mercwmouth12]

You've never read 1984 have you? The alternate earth she was on is an variation of that. Free to have thoughts, but when confronted by authority had to bow to it or be punished as well

[eratas123]

You've never read 1984 have you? The alternate earth she was on is an variation of that. Free to have thoughts, but when confronted by authority had to bow to it or be punished as well

It makes her two faced regardless. If she just tried to ignore Gwen/keep her head down then the snitching would seem less terrible. But because she gushes and praises Gwen her immediate about face is comical and makes it seem like that MJ was spouting a load of BS or trying to cozy up to the Super.

[Mercwmouth12]

It makes her two faced regardless. If she just tried to ignore Gwen/keep her head down then the snitching would seem less terrible. But because she gushes and praises Gwen her immediate about face is comical and makes it seem like that MJ was spouting a load of BS or trying to cozy up to the Super.

That sounds a bit of reaching, what is worrisome is that they didnt do much for the Storm twins, Em Jay and Gwen will make up that's a foregone conclusion

[TinkerSpider]

So I'm reading through Gwenverse right now and Gwen's back in her home universe? And MJ's back to normal with no hint of Carnage? Is this supposed to be canon or what? What happened to the Storm siblings threatening her to gtfo? Cause it seems like it given that Gwen's identity is still public knowledge and she mentions 616 college.

Also, apparently Gwen and MJ started the band when they were kids…cause GWEN wanted attention. Huh? When was Gwen ever established as attention whore? I thought that was Mj's shtick in this verse.

EDIT:

So I read Gwenverse. Maybe it's just me but I'm not really interested in the alternate verse shenanigans and more on Gwen's character, especially how she perceives herself and her relationships. When her dad calls her out on Spidering on 616 she says that over there she has hero friends and she actually feels cool rather than being a freak or a circus attraction.

She also frames her relationship with her dad and MJ in an interesting manner. Her dad is scared of the future (where she continously risks her life as a hero) while MJ is fixated on the past and returning to the relationship she had with Gwen before she got powers (which Gwen says is impossible). This causes her a lot of angst cause she feels like past or future she's failing everyone around her.

Part of this is also framed with the differences in the verses. Gwen states that her world is 'low super', referencing the fact that there are no Avengers, alien invasions or doomsday scenarios. Her dad also brings this up, stating that 'a little danger' in 616 is basically doomsday even compared to 'a lot of danger' on Earth-65. This indirectly brings up how Gwen is actually really powerful for her setting vien that she's basically 616 Spidey sans the experience.

Apparently the different Gwens are representative of one personality quirk of Gwen to the extreme. ThorGwen is apparently Gwen's desire to be adored. Again, when was Gwen being an attention whore ever indicated? She never shows this. MJ shows this trait, not Gwen. Gwenom vs Carnage even indicated that Gwen didn't care about starting a band.

The closest thing I can think of is that she used her powers for fame at first but literally every Spider sans Miles does that. Was Peter Parker an attention whore? Not really. It feels weird that they're stapling this to her characterization when she barely ever cared about fame beforehand and actively ran away from it

Also, I have to say it: MJ's either being written as queerbait or the writers have no fucking clue how she comes across. I mean look at this:


Seriously? If Gwen was a guy readers would absolutely think MJ wants in her pants with no ambiguity. The issue is if that's what they're angling for then they absolutely failed given that this MJ is fucking terrible:

- She's controlling: Demands Gwen's time despite her other responsibilities. When Gwen started Heroes for Hire she got pissy and even demanded she move back in with Betty if rent was an issue.

- Guilt tripping: This panel and others where she tries to make Gwen feel bad for the band not being her priority.

- Projecting: Calls her an attention whore because one of Gwen's spiders accidentally landed on her.

- Jealous: Grumbles that she wishes she had powers instead of Gwen.

- Obsessive: Flashbacks in Gwenom vs Carnage show her fixating on Gwen being a bad friend when the flashbacks just show Gwen not being as invested as MJ into something, which is hardly horrible.

Why the hell is Gwen still friends with her? She's clearly toxic at this point and obsessed with recreating her pre-Spiderwoman friendship with Gwen, which Gwen herself points out isn't possible anymore.

Co-signed.

I was looking forward to this after reading an advanced review and:

I don’t know what the reviewer was smoking, but it either should be banned on all seven continents or made free so all of us can enjoy their altered reality.

I found the whole concept….silly, and not in a good way. It’s obvious they’re going for some meta comics commentary but the meme villain is pure cringe and “Marvel Law” made me laugh at loud - but AT the comic, not with it. Did the writer think he was assigned Gwenpool, and had to switch out the names at the last minute?

Petition to remove any character resembling Mary Jane Watson from the Spider-Gwen-verse. It’s blatantly obvious that the writers have absolutely no idea how to depict female relationships and fall into the trap of either making MJ an absurdly antagonistic two-dimensional foil and/or queer bait. Anyone assigned to Spider-Gwen in the future should be required to read McKay’s Mary Jane and Black Cat for a crash course in how to write for two women characters who have a complicated history without making either one a perfect saint or an 3v!L villain, and allowing each one to shine based on their unique and particular character strengths and weaknesses. At least under Latour, and somewhat under McGuire despite her well-known hatred for 616 Mary Jane, EmJay had fire and snark to go with her noxiousness. Here, she’s just…a generic extreme histrionic mood swing. (Also, EmJay hasn’t been depicted as wealthy? Nor into expensive clothes? Nor is she all that self-aware? So the line about about her mask being a smile and an expensive purse felt very much out of place.)

But then, Gwen doesn’t have a personality, either. In fact, this book seems to be written expressly to demonstrate that Gwen is a blank slate who can cosplay as anyone. Latour already did the “Who am I?” crisis of confidence for Gwen, so seeing her back to square one is rather eye-rolling. On the other hand, I got the impression the writer wasn’t at all familiar with Gwen’s earlier stories (still think he thought he was writing Gwenpool for a good portion of the series).

Half-star for Spider Zero, who was the best part of the book but also acted as a generic deus ex machina - so far, anyone with access to the time stream could have played her role. Hopefully we’ll get more insight into her, but I’m not holding my breath.

[eratas123]

MJ being wealthy and fashion conscious in that one verse can at least be explained with timeline differences. Her style and appearance points to that MJ being a rich girl. 65-MJ really needs to tone it the fuck down or just tell Gwen everything so she can be properly rejected, cause right now I feel sorry for Glory. The girl she’s actually dating.

[Mercwmouth12]

MJ being wealthy and fashion conscious in that one verse can at least be explained with timeline differences. Her style and appearance points to that MJ being a rich girl. 65-MJ really needs to tone it the fuck down or just tell Gwen everything so she can be properly rejected, cause right now I feel sorry for Glory. The girl she’s actually dating.

Want to also point out this is a variant MJ that's only been around for a few years. Not the actual one with a rich history and character growth thats about 56 years long. Relax and read the rest of the mini

[TinkerSpider]

Want to also point out this is a variant MJ that's only been around for a few years. Not the actual one with a rich history and character growth thats about 56 years long. Relax and read the rest of the mini

EmJay-65 has been around since 2014 - that’s eight years. She’s been a key supporting character in all the Spider-Gwen series. She’s even a supporting character in the Ghost Spider Marvel Rising animated shorts. That’s more than enough time to have established characterization as well as character growth. More to the point: characters should have consistent characterization in the same issue. George Stacy does, after all.

Not that this mini is demonstrating believable characterization nor growth for Gwen, either. So it’s not worth my money nor my reading time. May borrow a copy to skim but that’s about it. *shrug*