Gwen Stacy: Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider Appreciation Thread 2022

[eratas123]

Want to also point out this is a variant MJ that's only been around for a few years. Not the actual one with a rich history and character growth thats about 56 years long. Relax and read the rest of the mini

The issue is her character regression. She already had her character development, it's just that from Maguire onwards she regressed to being a one-note queerbaiting bitch who is a very toxic 'friend' to Gwen who the latter should really dump. She's even worse than pre-development under Latour since at least then that was her origin story and and showed more diversity than just hating on Gwen - the issue where they talk about life after Gwen was depressed and lost her powers was a good showcase. Instead she goes from this:



to this:



So she goes from 'Hey, isn't it cool Gwen has powers' and 'We're waiting for you to come back' to 'Showoff, if only I had powers instead' and 'You deliberately messed with me just because you wanna be the center of attention'? And this is just one instance of bitchy behavior. Remember this is after Gwen went to jail for a year. You'd think MJ would be a bit more sympathetic instead of accusing one of her so-called closest friends from childhood (because Gwenom vs Carnage indicates that they knew each other many years prior to the start of the comic proper) of being an attention whore spiteful enough to sabotage people around her.

It also doesn't help that her current arc seems to be wanting her pre-powered friendship back with Gwen and during Gwenom vs Carnage it's clear that MJ mentally considered Gwen a bad friend. Knull even says that most people fight back harder against his control but MJ had enough anger to make possessing her easier. Her reasoning for that?



Because Gwen was...kinda flaky? Gee, it's not like kids/early teenagers couldn't be distracted. Apparently she held this grudge for years and even after finding out about the whole Spider-Woman thing she hasn't let it go despite knowing full well why Gwen is distracted. Again, this is extremely possessive and toxic behavior but neither Gwen or the story ever call her on it. Apparently her toxic behavior is just MJ being MJ.

[Kevinroc]

Want to also point out this is a variant MJ that's only been around for a few years. Not the actual one with a rich history and character growth thats about 56 years long. Relax and read the rest of the mini

Spider-Gwen received her first title in February 2015. It has been over 7 years.

[Mercwmouth12]

The issue is her character regression. She already had her character development, it's just that from Maguire onwards she regressed to being a one-note queerbaiting bitch who is a very toxic 'friend' to Gwen who the latter should really dump. She's even worse than pre-development under Latour since at least then that was her origin story and and showed more diversity than just hating on Gwen - the issue where they talk about life after Gwen was depressed and lost her powers was a good showcase. Instead she goes from this:



to this:



So she goes from 'Hey, isn't it cool Gwen has powers' and 'We're waiting for you to come back' to 'Showoff, if only I had powers instead' and 'You deliberately messed with me just because you wanna be the center of attention'? And this is just one instance of bitchy behavior. Remember this is after Gwen went to jail for a year. You'd think MJ would be a bit more sympathetic instead of accusing one of her so-called closest friends from childhood (because Gwenom vs Carnage indicates that they knew each other many years prior to the start of the comic proper) of being an attention whore spiteful enough to sabotage people around her.

It also doesn't help that her current arc seems to be wanting her pre-powered friendship back with Gwen and during Gwenom vs Carnage it's clear that MJ mentally considered Gwen a bad friend. Knull even says that most people fight back harder against his control but MJ had enough anger to make possessing her easier. Her reasoning for that?



Because Gwen was...kinda flaky? Gee, it's not like kids/early teenagers couldn't be distracted. Apparently she held this grudge for years and even after finding out about the whole Spider-Woman thing she hasn't let it go despite knowing full well why Gwen is distracted. Again, this is extremely possessive and toxic behavior but neither Gwen or the story ever call her on it. Apparently her toxic behavior is just MJ being MJ.

So yes she was upset with her friend because she deep down misses her friend and wants to go back to the way they were when just friends having to worry about simple things. Think a a teen girl movie with drama but add superhero days drama. Deep down they are friends so all this extra stuff you think you see is there but also not there. This story also follows it's going to go in a bland and easily guessable ending they make up,Gwen calls her out and they have a talk or the multiverse adventure messes up her world and it changes a few people for the better

[Frontier]

So I'm reading through Gwenverse right now and Gwen's back in her home universe? And MJ's back to normal with no hint of Carnage? Is this supposed to be canon or what? What happened to the Storm siblings threatening her to gtfo? Cause it seems like it given that Gwen's identity is still public knowledge and she mentions 616 college.

Also, apparently Gwen and MJ started the band when they were kids…cause GWEN wanted attention. Huh? When was Gwen ever established as attention whore? I thought that was Mj's shtick in this verse.

EDIT:

So I read Gwenverse. Maybe it's just me but I'm not really interested in the alternate verse shenanigans and more on Gwen's character, especially how she perceives herself and her relationships. When her dad calls her out on Spidering on 616 she says that over there she has hero friends and she actually feels cool rather than being a freak or a circus attraction.

She also frames her relationship with her dad and MJ in an interesting manner. Her dad is scared of the future (where she continously risks her life as a hero) while MJ is fixated on the past and returning to the relationship she had with Gwen before she got powers (which Gwen says is impossible). This causes her a lot of angst cause she feels like past or future she's failing everyone around her.

Part of this is also framed with the differences in the verses. Gwen states that her world is 'low super', referencing the fact that there are no Avengers, alien invasions or doomsday scenarios. Her dad also brings this up, stating that 'a little danger' in 616 is basically doomsday even compared to 'a lot of danger' on Earth-65. This indirectly brings up how Gwen is actually really powerful for her setting vien that she's basically 616 Spidey sans the experience.

Apparently the different Gwens are representative of one personality quirk of Gwen to the extreme. ThorGwen is apparently Gwen's desire to be adored. Again, when was Gwen being an attention whore ever indicated? She never shows this. MJ shows this trait, not Gwen. Gwenom vs Carnage even indicated that Gwen didn't care about starting a band.

The closest thing I can think of is that she used her powers for fame at first but literally every Spider sans Miles does that. Was Peter Parker an attention whore? Not really. It feels weird that they're stapling this to her characterization when she barely ever cared about fame beforehand and actively ran away from it:



Also, I have to say it: MJ's either being written as queerbait or the writers have no fucking clue how she comes across. I mean look at this:



Seriously? If Gwen was a guy readers would absolutely think MJ wants in her pants with no ambiguity. The issue is if that's what they're angling for then they absolutely failed given that this MJ is fucking terrible:

- She's controlling: Demands Gwen's time despite her other responsibilities. When Gwen started Heroes for Hire she got pissy and even demanded she move back in with Betty if rent was an issue.

- Guilt tripping: This panel and others where she tries to make Gwen feel bad for the band not being her priority.

- Projecting: Calls her an attention whore because one of Gwen's spiders accidentally landed on her.

- Jealous: Grumbles that she wishes she had powers instead of Gwen.

- Obsessive: Flashbacks in Gwenom vs Carnage show her fixating on Gwen being a bad friend when the flashbacks just show Gwen not being as invested as MJ into something, which is hardly horrible.

Why the hell is Gwen still friends with her? She's clearly toxic at this point and obsessed with recreating her pre-Spiderwoman friendship with Gwen, which Gwen herself points out isn't possible anymore.

If I remember right initially Gwen as Spider-Woman made the rounds on the media circuit and became a minor celebrity but it only swung in the opposite direction after Earth-65 Peter died.

[eratas123]

If I remember right initially Gwen as Spider-Woman made the rounds on the media circuit and became a minor celebrity but it only swung in the opposite direction after Earth-65 Peter died.

Yep, those were only shown in the splash page. Let's also not forget Jameson being a spin artists of epic proportions who somehow made everyone in that school forget the MULTI TON GIANT LIZARD Gwen fought. Like that **** would be up on social media before the night was over. And we know from flashbacks that MJ, Glory and Betty saw it, and the collateral damage was severe enough that others saw it too. Unless people seriously buy Gwen tore apart the gym to kill one non-powered nerd.

So yes she was upset with her friend because she deep down misses her friend and wants to go back to the way they were when just friends having to worry about simple things. Think a a teen girl movie with drama but add superhero days drama. Deep down they are friends so all this extra stuff you think you see is there but also not there. This story also follows it's going to go in a bland and easily guessable ending they make up,Gwen calls her out and they have a talk or the multiverse adventure messes up her world and it changes a few people for the better

This doesn't explain MJ's behavior. Missing her friend is one thing, but she's blatantly projecting and character assassinating Gwen. Gwen's internal monologues even note that MJ seems to find any reason to scream at her or get on her ass but again she just rolls with it? Would you hang around a friend who nitpicks every single thing and uses it as an excuse to start a fight? Even at her worst in the Latour run MJ rarely ever actually got on Gwen's ass too much, and the first time she did (after she went missing for days due to Spiderverse) Glory called her out and she was treated as being selfish cause she just wanted Gwen back in the band rather than being actually worried.

Just because the story's cliche and will end with them making up doesn't change the fact that MJ's character is atrocious. Gwen jokes about it, but the fact that she's so genuinely surprised that MJ alternate was nice to her in Gwenverse says a lot. And again completely contradicts that MJ was perfectly nice and supportive once she found out her identity instead of resenting and holding it against her. Unless Gwen pissed in her cornflakes between comic runs I see no reason why MJ would regress so harshly or why Gwen would think this is normal for one of her best friends.

[Mercwmouth12]

Yep, those were only shown in the splash page. Let's also not forget Jameson being a spin artists of epic proportions who somehow made everyone in that school forget the MULTI TON GIANT LIZARD Gwen fought. Like that **** would be up on social media before the night was over. And we know from flashbacks that MJ, Glory and Betty saw it, and the collateral damage was severe enough that others saw it too. Unless people seriously buy Gwen tore apart the gym to kill one non-powered nerd.



This doesn't explain MJ's behavior. Missing her friend is one thing, but she's blatantly projecting and character assassinating Gwen. Gwen's internal monologues even note that MJ seems to find any reason to scream at her or get on her ass but again she just rolls with it? Would you hang around a friend who nitpicks every single thing and uses it as an excuse to start a fight? Even at her worst in the Latour run MJ rarely ever actually got on Gwen's ass too much, and the first time she did (after she went missing for days due to Spiderverse) Glory called her out and she was treated as being selfish cause she just wanted Gwen back in the band rather than being actually worried.

Just because the story's cliche and will end with them making up doesn't change the fact that MJ's character is atrocious. Gwen jokes about it, but the fact that she's so genuinely surprised that MJ alternate was nice to her in Gwenverse says a lot. And again completely contradicts that MJ was perfectly nice and supportive once she found out her identity instead of resenting and holding it against her. Unless Gwen pissed in her cornflakes between comic runs I see no reason why MJ would regress so harshly or why Gwen would think this is normal for one of her best friends.

Thos is also the first issue. Trust me just read the mini and then see how it plays out. No reason to get out of shape on it after just one issue. Which marvel also delayed it several times because they had no faith in it

[eratas123]

Thos is also the first issue. Trust me just read the mini and then see how it plays out. No reason to get out of shape on it after just one issue. Which marvel also delayed it several times because they had no faith in it

I’m referring to how MJ has been treated for years past Latour’s run. Admittedly this comic doesn’t help by also writing her as yet another queerbait jerk character. It’s doubtly stupid since Gwen seems almost asexual so you can’t even make the same jokes such as with Peter and Johnny Storm.

[Kevinroc]

I’m referring to how MJ has been treated for years past Latour’s run. Admittedly this comic doesn’t help by also writing her as yet another queerbait jerk character. It’s doubtly stupid since Gwen seems almost asexual so you can’t even make the same jokes such as with Peter and Johnny Storm.

But then they market Gwen on covers like these...

[Frontier]

Yep, those were only shown in the splash page. Let's also not forget Jameson being a spin artists of epic proportions who somehow made everyone in that school forget the MULTI TON GIANT LIZARD Gwen fought. Like that **** would be up on social media before the night was over. And we know from flashbacks that MJ, Glory and Betty saw it, and the collateral damage was severe enough that others saw it too. Unless people seriously buy Gwen tore apart the gym to kill one non-powered nerd.

I forget how much people knew about Peter's transformation into the Lizard.

But then they market Gwen on covers like these...

I guess Gwen Stacy is still marketable as a love interest even she never dates anybody.

[Kevinroc]

I guess Gwen Stacy is still marketable as a love interest even she never dates anybody.

I'm just saying this idea that she's ace or aro isn't coming across in these covers. (Also, didn't she sort of date her world's Harry Osborn?)

[Dron]

I'm just saying this idea that she's ace or aro isn't coming across in these covers. (Also, didn't she sort of date her world's Harry Osborn?)

She did. I personally though didn't believe it wouldn't last beyond the end of that series before her new started her attending school in 616. (It didn't). There was a new original guy She showed slight interest in when she was going to school, but the book got axed before anything could be developed. You could argue the Ace like appearance could just be the result of all her titles getting canceled after 1 or 2 plotlines.

[Kevinroc]

I think it's absolutely fair to criticize the way Marvel has handled this from top to bottom. They don't want to present this major character as LGBTQ+ (they don't want to present any of the major Spiders as LGBTQ+ which is where the problem actually is).

[Frontier]

I think it's a case where fans look more deeply into things than probably Marvel or Marvel marketing.

[Kevinroc]

I think it's a case where fans look more deeply into things than probably Marvel or Marvel marketing.

I'm not giving Marvel the benefit of the doubt here. They don't deserve it.

If Miles or Miguel or Cindy or Mayday or anyone was shown actually romantically interested in a member of the same sex, I could. But not one of them has. I refuse to believe this is coincidence.

[Spiderfan001]

I think it's a case where fans look more deeply into things than probably Marvel or Marvel marketing.

Yeah, I'm inclined to believe that