Gwen Stacy: Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider Appreciation Thread 2022

[Kevinroc]

Spider-man comics have way bigger problems than rep rn, not to say rep isn't up there but just make your own thread to discuss that.They need better and more consistent writers

Most fans fear new stories when we should be looking forward to them

The issue is that the comics don't really matter anymore and Marvel is all about marketing their IP in other mediums like films, tv shows, video games, etc.

I know that isn't a very popular opinion around these parts, but that's how I see things. So as much as people talk about Gwen being aro or ace, that is not how that character is represented in other mediums. The mediums that actually matter to Marvel.

[Kurolegacy]

The X-Men are not Spiders. It is embarrassing that the Spider-Man IP (Marvel's biggest IP) does not have one prominent LGBTQ Spider-Hero. This is an issue that needs to be addressed and fixed.

See that just comes across as entitled as to say that simply because it’s not being expressed in the way that you personally want it that it doesn’t count no matter what strives that they’re making. They don’t have to do anything. If they do, they do. If they don’t, there’s plenty of LGBT representation within Marvel including within the Spider books.

[Kevinroc]

See that just comes across as entitled as to say that simply because it’s not being expressed in the way that you personally want it that it doesn’t count no matter what strives that they’re making. They don’t have to do anything. If they do, they do. If they don’t, there’s plenty of LGBT representation within Marvel including within the Spider books.

Issues of representation in regards to the X-Men are a separate discussion. Trying to shield Marvel from this discussion by saying "there are LGBTQ people elsewhere" doesn't change the fact that the Spider-Man franchise does not have one major hero with "Spider" in their name that is canonically queer.

DC has, in recent times, published comics headlined by a bisexual Superman. There is zero excuse for Marvel on this front. Sending the message that LGBTQ people can wear the mask is an important one.

[Spiderfan001]

The issue is that the comics don't really matter anymore and Marvel is all about marketing their IP in other mediums like films, tv shows, video games, etc.

I know that isn't a very popular opinion around these parts, but that's how I see things. So as much as people talk about Gwen being aro or ace, that is not how that character is represented in other mediums. The mediums that actually matter to Marvel.

This is a comics forum, even though I agree w/ you in that comics are a back-burner subject for Marvel people here do like and care about the comics.

And if we talk about Gwen 65 we talk about her comic version, not ITSV or any other show unless specified

See that just comes across as entitled as to say that simply because it’s not being expressed in the way that you personally want it that it doesn’t count no matter what strives that they’re making. They don’t have to do anything. If they do, they do. If they don’t, there’s plenty of LGBT representation within Marvel including within the Spider books.

This, I hate when people say "A company/franchise/etc. might have rep, but they don't have it where/how I want it so it's a diff. thing".

That's like me complaining that there isn't a Spider-character w/ my ethnicity or nationality so all the POC Spider-characters don't really count.

And again I'd be a lot more inclined to agree w/ that and criticize Marvel if this was it's own thread and not hijacking another one

[Kevinroc]

This is a comics forum, even though I agree w/ you in that comics are a back-burner subject for Marvel people here do like and care about the comics.

And if we talk about Gwen 65 we talk about her comic version, not ITSV or any other show unless specified

And it was a Gwen comic that set off this discussion. Because the first issue of Gwenverse went back to queerbaiting Spider-Gwen and EmJay. Marvel needs to either knock that off or have them actually hook up.

This, I hate when people say "A company/franchise/etc. might have rep, but they don't have it where/how I want it so it's a diff. thing".

That's like me complaining that there isn't a Spider-character w/ my ethnicity or nationality so all the POC Spider-characters don't really count.

And again I'd be a lot more inclined to agree w/ that and criticize Marvel if this was it's own thread and not hijacking another one

This argument could be rephrased as "why does Spider-Man need Miles Morales? There are Black people who are in the X-Men."

The X-Men are not Spider-Man, and should not be treated as if they were.

Marvel has worked hard to make sure that Spider-Man is not just Peter Parker. They have worked hard to diversify this franchise, to who can wear the mask. But there's still more work to be done.

[Spiderfan001]

And it was a Gwen comic that set off this discussion. Because the first issue of Gwenverse went back to queerbaiting Spider-Gwen and EmJay. Marvel needs to either knock that off or have them actually hook up.

That's how you read it, that's not what everyone or most people came off w/ it.In the panel before the ones you posted EmJay even says "friendship" and not relationship

This argument could be rephrased as "why does Spider-Man need Miles Morales? There are Black people who are in the X-Men."

The X-Men are not Spider-Man, and should not be treated as if they were.

Marvel has worked hard to make sure that Spider-Man is not just Peter Parker. They have worked hard to diversify this franchise, to who can wear the mask. But there's still more work to be done.

NO LMFAO.Miles is more than "Black Spider-man", what are you on about

And Peter is still THE Spider-man, every other Spider-man whether Miguel or Miles is literally inspired by his example and picked up the name he built.They've even sated in canon Peter is the best Spider-man in the multiverse

And there's ALWAYS more work to be, my problem is this is the wrong thread

[Kevinroc]

That's how you read it, that's not what everyone or most people came off w/ it.In the panel before the ones you posted EmJay even says "friendship" and not relationship

I am aware. Doesn't change what I said.

NO LMFAO.Miles is more than "Black Spider-man", what are you on about

And Peter is still THE Spider-man, every other Spider-man whether Miguel or Miles is literally inspired by his example and picked up the name he built.They've even sated in canon Peter is the best Spider-man in the multiverse

And there's ALWAYS more work to be, my problem is this is the wrong thread

Miles was very much treated as "The Black Spider-Man" when he was announced. He's had time to grow into his own, but acting like he came out and was instantly accepted and loved by everyone is not what happened. (And I like Miles.)

Peter is still the headline of the franchise. But we're seeing releases that revolve around other characters. A Miles Morales game where Peter's role is minimal. A Miles Morales movie where Peter is a supporting character. And this will only continue. Peter will always be the number 1 character in the franchise, but he won't be the only one who gets the spotlight.

A new LGBTQ Spider-Man or Spider-Woman would absolutely be treated as such if they were announced. If they revealed a pre-existing Spider-Man or Spider-Woman was LGBTQ? Well, that's the question, isn't it? What would happen if they revealed Gwen was bi? (And for the sake of argument, didn't pair her with EmJay, but someone new.)

As for your argument that this is the "wrong thread," if that were the case, a mod would ask us to stop or spin this discussion into a new thread. That has not happened. So please don't make that argument.

[Spiderfan001]

I am aware. Doesn't change what I said.

Yes it does, if they were baiting they would have much more likely said relationship

Miles was very much treated as "The Black Spider-Man" when he was announced. He's had time to grow into his own, but acting like he came out and was instantly accepted and loved by everyone is not what happened. (And I like Miles.)

Peter is still the headline of the franchise. But we're seeing releases that revolve around other characters. A Miles Morales game where Peter's role is minimal. A Miles Morales movie where Peter is a supporting character. And this will only continue. Peter will always be the number 1 character in the franchise, but he won't be the only one who gets the spotlight.

A new LGBTQ Spider-Man or Spider-Woman would absolutely be treated as such if they were announced. If they revealed a pre-existing Spider-Man or Spider-Woman was LGBTQ? Well, that's the question, isn't it? What would happen if they revealed Gwen was bi? (And for the sake of argument, didn't pair her with EmJay, but someone new.)

As for your argument that this is the "wrong thread," if that were the case, a mod would ask us to stop or spin this discussion into a new thread. That has not happened. So please don't make that argument.

Were going in circles here

Anyways I hope a mod cleans this up

[Frontier]

As a mod, I'm going to recommend we shift this discussion to talking about the latest issue and what's going on with Gwen.

[TinkerSpider]

To be fair though, 616 MJ used to own a nightclub. That's music related.

But when has 616 Mary Jane EVER been shown playing a guitar?! Owning a nightclub is not being a musician, and nightclubs can have more than music - they can host standup comedy, for example (and that doesn't make MJ a standup comedian, either). That's like saying Bob Chapek is a costumed performer at Walt Disney World because he's the CEO of The Walt Disney Company. Or like saying Mary Jane is now Rescue, because she worked with Tony Stark. Also, nothing Slott did with Mary Jane should be considered canon. That's my story and I will die on that hill.

It's obvious they've taken the Mary Jane Fortnite skin from Spider-Gwen/Marvel Rising and not 616 nor the movies nor the Spider-Man animated series in which MJ is a character. Which means the Spider-Gwen version of the character is starting to seep into pop culture (with people conflating her with 616 Mary Jane in the game press) and I find that to be a problem considering how toxic EmJay is portrayed (and also considering she is one of Marvel's few LGBTQ+ characters...does the rep have to be SO negative?).

Back to Gwenverse - what do people think about the overall story? There's been little discussion of the plot. I don't find meme villain or her version of Spider-baddies to be all that compelling - more like trying too hard cringe - but maybe I'm wrong?

[Vegeta]

Back to Gwenverse - what do people think about the overall story? There's been little discussion of the plot. I don't find meme villain or her version of Spider-baddies to be all that compelling - more like trying too hard cringe - but maybe I'm wrong?

No, I honestly just couldn't get into it. I think I am just getting sick and tired of multiversal shenanigans. (It didn't help that I also picked up "Superior Four" with Doc Ock ALSO dealing with multiverse variants the same week.) A lot of stuff happens, ("Oh look, my dad is now a robot suit militant cop") but I never feel like there are any real stakes. "ITSV" worked because they kept the main emotional focus of the story on Peter, Miles and Gwen (with Spider-Ham, Noir and Peni as mostly comedic sidekicks) "No Way Home" worked because we were already familiar with and emotionally connected to the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spiders from previous franchises. Spider-Gwen (and Doc Ock!) popping in and out of a bunch of realities we've never seen before doesn't really carry much weight (imo).

[eratas123]

And again the issue is they’re trying to conflate all the Gwen variants into one of Gwen’s flaws…except the flaw they bring up for this issue is that Gwen is an attention whore. This has literally never been part of her character outside of her splash page intro and previous runs show her running away from or anxious when people fanrgirl over her when she’s unmasked. And it’s comical that MJ of all people calls her that most any readers would remember that Mj herself is a horrible attention seeker who names the band after herself. Yet she accuses Gwen that she started the band?

The way her relationship is framed with MJ and her dad via the past vs future metaphor is good, but again this was already fixed at the end of Latour’s run. Why is she going through this again? It makes me wary cause whole the series is marketed for Gwen’s growth I know that it won’t stick and by the next run MJ will be back to being toxic queerbait while her dad just continuous to passively watch her heroics.

[Dron]

No, I honestly just couldn't get into it. I think I am just getting sick and tired of multiversal shenanigans. (It didn't help that I also picked up "Superior Four" with Doc Ock ALSO dealing with multiverse variants the same week.) A lot of stuff happens, ("Oh look, my dad is now a robot suit militant cop") but I never feel like there are any real stakes. "ITSV" worked because they kept the main emotional focus of the story on Peter, Miles and Gwen (with Spider-Ham, Noir and Peni as mostly comedic sidekicks) "No Way Home" worked because we were already familiar with and emotionally connected to the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spiders from previous franchises. Spider-Gwen (and Doc Ock!) popping in and out of a bunch of realities we've never seen before doesn't really carry much weight (imo).

It's a self contained mini, and not a tie-in to any sort of event comic. Also it's more time travel based then alternate reality. They've never left earth-65.

[eratas123]

It's a self contained mini, and not a tie-in to any sort of event comic. Also it's more time travel based then alternate reality. They've never left earth-65.

That still has issues. Like the fact that Gwen's supposed to be trapped in Earth-616 due to the Storm siblings and MJ is heavily hinted to still have Carnage. Neither of which is followed up on. Also, according to the Marvel wiki this version of MJ is meant to be Carnage on a more permanent basis, making this weirder:

Seanan McGuire had wanted to make Mary Jane the Carnage to Gwen Stacy's Venom ever since she took over writing the Spider-Gwen series, but had struggled to find a plausible way to make it happen until King in Black was proposed by Donny Cates. Even then, Marvel's editorial nearly vetoed her proposal out of the belief there were too many symbiote characters already, until the success of Absolute Carnage convinced them otherwise.[3]

Though I don't know if they meant for her to be a villain or an anti-hero given this. Considering McGuire admitted to being a fan of Gwen and not so much Mary Jane I think they'd lean more towards the former...

Also, as someone else pointed out, apparently Gwen is worthy of Mjolnir?



Either that's just a glitch cause technically Spider-Gwen and Thor-Gwen are the same person or somehow Gwen is worthy of the name Thor even though I'm pretty sure 616 Spidey isn't?

[Frontier]

That still has issues. Like the fact that Gwen's supposed to be trapped in Earth-616 due to the Storm siblings and MJ is heavily hinted to still have Carnage. Neither of which is followed up on. Also, according to the Marvel wiki this version of MJ is meant to be Carnage on a more permanent basis, making this weirder:

Seanan McGuire had wanted to make Mary Jane the Carnage to Gwen Stacy's Venom ever since she took over writing the Spider-Gwen series, but had struggled to find a plausible way to make it happen until King in Black was proposed by Donny Cates. Even then, Marvel's editorial nearly vetoed her proposal out of the belief there were too many symbiote characters already, until the success of Absolute Carnage convinced them otherwise.[3]

Though I don't know if they meant for her to be a villain or an anti-hero given this. Considering McGuire admitted to being a fan of Gwen and not so much Mary Jane I think they'd lean more towards the former...

Also, as someone else pointed out, apparently Gwen is worthy of Mjolnir?



Either that's just a glitch cause technically Spider-Gwen and Thor-Gwen are the same person or somehow Gwen is worthy of the name Thor even though I'm pretty sure 616 Spidey isn't?

They weren't wrong about too many Symbiote characters.

Maybe this Hammer doesn't have the Worthiness enchantment on it (I mean, Thor-Gwen talks about her "beautiful face" so it seems like she has some level of pride one would expect of pre-humility Thor).