Gwen Stacy: Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider Appreciation Thread 2022

[eratas123]

Gwen’s interest in Harry seemed more because she wanted to be considered ‘normal’ and dating was normal. Notice that when Kosei, the guy in Ghost Spider, showed signs of being into her Gwen’s internal monologue is her gushing about making a friend. Later on when Kosei tries to flirt with her Gwen igmores it or seems unaware. Back during Latour’s run she was also unaware and in denial when told both Harry and Peter liked her:



Her reaction to being flirted to is also a reason some fans think she’s ace or aro. When someone asked for a date in the hero for hire app her response was ‘ew gross!’. Ditto when a kid tried to ask her for a prom date and she gets super annoyed. By contrast when Ultimate Peter had a girl flirt with him in costume he was surprised rather than put off. And of course the song thing where she knows MJ made a song about her but again she just seems annoyed:



Whether intentional or not it’s definitely a contrast compared to other Spiders who are shown to actively date, seek out romantic partners, or have main love interests. In Gwen’s 7 years she’s had two love interests, neither of which went anywhere and it’s shown both times that the guy is more imto her than the other way around. Contrast her to Mayday (actively sought out and had crushes on guys), Jessica Drew (dating Roger and previously dated other heroes) and Silk (had a serious boyfriend who she reconnected with and both miniseries have her trying to date men).

It’s either that or they just don’t have a clue on who would make a decent love interest for Gwen. A few years ago I’d have said MJ but this version is just toxic and unlikeable. Meanwhile she has no chemistry with Harry or Miles.

[Kevinroc]

If Marvel were really pushing Gwen as ace or aro, they wouldn't be parading her around on these covers as they do.

[eratas123]

If Marvel were really pushing Gwen as ace or aro, they wouldn't be parading her around on these covers as they do.

Covers does not equal actual story content. If you believe the covers then she and 616 Peter have a thing but in the comics she finds the idea of a romance with him super gross due to the age gap. Covers just get you to buy-in and Gwen is a hot blonde in skintight spandex. Same reason they give her a boob job but in the actual story she has more toned down curves. They’ve even done the same to Kamala, touting romance and more curves that never show in the story. Except in Kamala’s case she has a reason (her religion makes dating non-Muslims super hard) and she’s 15 so of course she’s not gonna have adult physique.

[Kevinroc]

Covers does not equal actual story content. If you believe the covers then she and 616 Peter have a thing but in the comics she finds the idea of a romance with him super gross due to the age gap. Covers just get you to buy-in and Gwen is a hot blonde in skintight spandex. Same reason they give her a boob job but in the actual story she has more toned down curves. They’ve even done the same to Kamala, touting romance and more curves that never show in the story. Except in Kamala’s case she has a reason (her religion makes dating non-Muslims super hard) and she’s 15 so of course she’s not gonna have adult physique.

Comics are a visual medium. The cover is absolutely an essential part of the presentation.



This kiss on the cover is why Into the Spider-Verse leaned in on Miles x Gwen. (And why its sequels will presumably lean into them more too.)

[Spiderfan001]

If Marvel were really pushing Gwen as ace or aro, they wouldn't be parading her around on these covers as they do.

Covers don't mean anything

Sitting in a tree was a mistake though

[Kevinroc]

Covers don't mean anything

Sitting in a tree was a mistake though

Comics are a visual medium and covers are a significant part of the presentation (as covers are the first thing people see). Do you think Into the Spider-Verse focuses on Miles x Gwen without Sitting in a Tree?

[eratas123]

Comics are a visual medium. The cover is absolutely an essential part of the presentation.

This kiss on the cover is why Into the Spider-Verse leaned in on Miles x Gwen. (And why its sequels will presumably lean into them more too.)

Covers like that have been used to bait readers before. Remember this?



Nothing REMOTELY close to that happened. There was also a cover of Kamala and male Muslim hero tangled in red ala the red string of fate. The aftual chapter? They have a friendly convo and Kamala decides dating isn’t for her just yet.

[Kevinroc]

Covers like that have been used to bait readers before. Remember this?



Nothing REMOTELY close to that happened. There was also a cover of Kamala and male Muslim hero tangled in red ala the red string of fate. The aftual chapter? They have a friendly convo and Kamala decides dating isn’t for her just yet.

So you agree that covers are important, even if they aren't canonical.



(And the cover didn't lie. Miles and Gwen did indeed kiss. And without that cover, without this story, Into the Spider-Verse does not exist as it does.)

[Spiderfan001]

We get it

Marvel has bad rep w/ Spiders. Covers can lie. ITSV can exist w/out MilesGwen ship but won't be the exact same.

Also Gwen has had more development after Bendis of all people wrote her, which leads people to believe she might be aro, etc.

[eratas123]

No, I agreed that covers lie and tend to be used as bait even if they contradict the story or characterizartion. How many times have we gotten covers of Superman being a dick only for the actual comic to show a very good reason or have him never show what he did in the cover? Gwen can be shown as thirsty as she wants in covers, it doesn’t change the fact that she doesn’t show much actual interest in the comics. The cover series of Gwen posing in Miles’ arms with a selfie also had Felicia in Venom’s arma. Last I checked those two weren’t a thing either.

The Miles/Gwen thing was also touted by Marvel as the new power couple and how it would critically change their status quo. What happened? Literally one kiss that Gwen breaks off and neither mention ti again. Miles goes back to pining after Barbara while Gwen literally never thinks back on it and acts as if it never happened.

[Frontier]

I mean, Gwen is a marketable character who was paired with Miles once and because of iconography is still associated with Peter. It's really as simple as that.

No, I agreed that covers lie and tend to be used as bait even if they contradict the story or characterizartion. How many times have we gotten covers of Superman being a dick only for the actual comic to show a very good reason or have him never show what he did in the cover? Gwen can be shown as thirsty as she wants in covers, it doesn’t change the fact that she doesn’t show much actual interest in the comics. The cover series of Gwen posing in Miles’ arms with a selfie also had Felicia in Venom’s arma. Last I checked those two weren’t a thing either.

The Miles/Gwen thing was also touted by Marvel as the new power couple and how it would critically change their status quo. What happened? Literally one kiss that Gwen breaks off and neither mention ti again. Miles goes back to pining after Barbara while Gwen literally never thinks back on it and acts as if it never happened.

Well, there was that AU where they were married and had kids but that was kind of just another weird tangent for that book.

[Kevinroc]

If Gwen is meant to be aro and ace, Marvel has done a terrible job sending that message. It's as simple as that.

[eratas123]

I mean, Gwen is a marketable character who was paired with Miles once and because of iconography is still associated with Peter. It's really as simple as that.

Well, there was that AU where they were married and had kids but that was kind of just another weird tangent for that book.

Still wondering how she can never have a proper love interest when Silk seems to have no issues. Her difficulty dating is also explained by her social issues due to the bunker.

AU’s don’t really matter since every pairing has come from AU’s. One AU had MJ in Exiles be a lesbian, for example. Another had Peter dating Sue Storm.

If Gwen is meant to be aro and ace, Marvel has done a terrible job sending that message. It's as simple as that.

You argument is covers. Other arguments come from story content. And Marvel being bad at sending a message? Gee, what a surprise. Not like tehy made their canonically bisexual version of MJ be raging queerbait for GwenxMJ fans.

[Kevinroc]

You argument is covers. Other arguments come from story content. And Marvel being bad at sending a message? Gee, what a surprise. Not like tehy made their canonically bisexual version of MJ be raging queerbait for GwenxMJ fans.

My argument is imagery is important in a visual medium. Trying to downplay the importance of a cover in this medium is not something I understand.

Also, Marvel have never come out and had Gwen actually say she is Aro or Ace. (Because that would absolutely destroy the shipping potential with regards to the character.)

It is deeply unsatisfying for a company with the resources of Marvel to present this character in the manner that they have. And I think they should be called out as such. They should also be called out for their lack of an actual canon LGBTQ Spider-Man or Spider-Woman character.

(And it's not like this is stopping Sony from shipping Miles x Gwen in their Spider-Verse films. These films will do more to color people's receptions of Gwen than any comic Marvel has published with the character.)

[eratas123]

My argument is imagery is important in a visual medium. Trying to downplay the importance of a cover in this medium is not something I understand.

Also, Marvel have never come out and had Gwen actually say she is Aro or Ace. (Because that would absolutely destroy the shipping potential with regards to the character.)

It is deeply unsatisfying for a company with the resources of Marvel to present this character in the manner that they have. And I think they should be called out as such. They should also be called out for their lack of an actual canon LGBTQ Spider-Man or Spider-Woman character.

(And it's not like this is stopping Sony from shipping Miles x Gwen in their Spider-Verse films. These films will do more to color people's receptions of Gwen than any comic Marvel has published with the character.)

I’m not downplaying it, I’m pointing out it’s inaccurate and deliberately tailored to just attract readers without a care for the actual story inside. Gwen being shown as thirsty on the covers isn’t accurate ti her deliberate lack of interest across multiple issues. You could easily have her try to get partners like Mayday or Silk but she’s never shown trying outaide of Miles (more on his end than hers) and Harry (who she seemed to date for the sense of normalcy rather than liking him specifically).

As you said Marvel really wants Gwen open for shipping, but I don’t get why she’s written this way. Again Mayday and Silk prove the company knows how to write women who have functioning hormones but Gwen sticks out for almost always seeing things in a platonic light. And when she doesn’t she either gets annoyed or ignores it. It’s really hard to claim that 65 MJ just wants to be friends with Gwen. Friends don’t act so controlling, jealous and obsessive unless Mey Jane is meant to be written as mentally unbalanced.