Sweet Christmas! - Luke Cage Appreciation 2022

[LukeCagefan]

Kevin Grevioux had a letter printed in it.

Luke's brother becomes a villian.

Luke's antics gets someone killed and he has to deal with that person's little brother-who eventually leaves town.

Hardcore was the first villain and he does have at least one Marvel trading card.

Hardcore died in issue 12 with Bushman's kid.

None of the others from that series have been seen since that book ended.

Did you like Hardcore?

[SecretWarrior]

I ‘m as big a Cage fan as anyone else, but I get it— Luke doesn’t bring out interesting sides of Jessica’s character or vice versa. Plus the most recent comic version (Post-Bendis) and the Netflix version have dry personalities because people keep pushing Luke as a saint-like paragon of Black/urban America, and there’s no humanity there— No quirks or internal struggles like he originally had. Just my opinion. Luke’s character needs new life to be able to stand on his own two feet and carry his own franchise as a leading man again. Moving in the direction of fewer super hero elements in his stories limits his storytelling potential too.

Is there an instance when two separate franchise leads successfully married? Closest I can think of is Green Arrow (who the original Luke had some personality traits in common with) and Black Canary, who often takes the back seat between the two outside of her BoP stories.

Oh, and I agree he would be proactive in anything threatening his family— Regardless of which era we’re talking about.

[LukeCagefan]

I ‘m as big a Cage fan as anyone else, but I get it— Luke doesn’t bring out interesting sides of Jessica’s character or vice versa. Plus the most recent comic version (Post-Bendis) and the Netflix version have dry personalities because people keep pushing Luke as a saint-like paragon of Black/urban America, and there’s no humanity there— No quirks or internal struggles like he originally had. Just my opinion. Luke’s character needs new life to be able to stand on his own two feet and carry his own franchise as a leading man again. Moving in the direction of fewer super hero elements in his stories limits his storytelling potential too.

Is there an instance when two separate franchise leads successfully married? Closest I can think of is Green Arrow (who the original Luke had some personality traits in common with) and Black Canary, who often takes the back seat between the two outside of her BoP stories.

Oh, and I agree he would be proactive in anything threatening his family— Regardless of which era we’re talking about.

Amen to this. And as you can see Black Canary and Green Arrow's marriage didn't last long and they have far more years of canon and chemistry than Jessica and Luke. Jessica and Luke actually didn't have a lot of building before Jessica announced she was pregnant. She spent the majority of the Alias series running around with Scott Lang and drooling over Matt Murdock going as far as to question whether or not she was in love with him. There was no national progression between her and Luke almost until she told him she was pregnant. Then, they were barely spent any panel time together in the Pulse before they got married in New Avengers. To me the relationship just feels forced and maybe that's why some writers just aren't feeling it. I dunno. Pre Netflix Jessica wasn't a franchise but she is now and I think it's becoming more of an issue.

Luke should never be a saint. That's just not who he is. His Netflix counterpart was a bit too dry, I have to admit. That might work for Mike Colter but that kind personality for a guy like Luke Cage just isn't going to work for him or draw in audience in a comic.

[Agent Z]

I feel you, but I think they were married in 2006 and together since maybe 2001 and very little has been done with them, in my opinion. And as Jessica's popularity continues to grow and feminist writers see her as this feminist icon they'll want to tell stories on her without Cage involved or involved very little. They'll do things like make him take the baby and leave her to handle things for herself - which to me is out of character for him. The Jessica Jones Netflix series increased Jessica's popularity tremendously and now writers care a lot more about her and not so much about Cage. It's not like a Lois & Clark, or a Spidey & MJ thing. I think Storm and T'Challa is a good example of that. Storm fans felt she should be more than just T'Challa's wife despite Hudlin handling her with respect. Both Reginald Hudlin & Brian Michael Bendis cared about those relationships but other writers seem to be only interested in one or the other rather than them as an item. I do think Jessica & Luke could be interesting but I haven't seen writers outside of Bendis and Ewing that actually care about them. I think with the rumoured appearance of Jessica Jones set to appear on Echo it's going to be even more so. She has her own fanbase now and they don't seem to care about Luke. Most of them I talked to ship her with Matt Murdock. Gail Simone probably does too judging by the variant cover of her smooching with Murdock lol.

You are aware that this is a story about different versions of Jessica right? The one we see kissing Daredevil is very likely not the one from the main universe. You're reading an awful lot into a variant cover.

[Agent Z]

Amen to this. And as you can see Black Canary and Green Arrow's marriage didn't last long and they have far more years of canon and chemistry than Jessica and Luke. Jessica and Luke actually didn't have a lot of building before Jessica announced she was pregnant. She spent the majority of the Alias series running around with Scott Lang and drooling over Matt Murdock going as far as to question whether or not she was in love with him. There was no national progression between her and Luke almost until she told him she was pregnant. Then, they were barely spent any panel time together in the Pulse before they got married in New Avengers. To me the relationship just feels forced and maybe that's why some writers just aren't feeling it. I dunno. Pre Netflix Jessica wasn't a franchise but she is now and I think it's becoming more of an issue.

Luke should never be a saint. That's just not who he is. His Netflix counterpart was a bit too dry, I have to admit. That might work for Mike Colter but that kind personality for a guy like Luke Cage just isn't going to work for him or draw in audience in a comic.

Luke's netflix counterpart wasn't a saint either. As for what personality would make him successful, you only need to look at how many people watched the netflix show vs how many have ever read a comic.

[SecretWarrior]

Luke's netflix counterpart wasn't a saint either. As for what personality would make him successful, you only need to look at how many people watched the netflix show vs how many have ever read a comic.

Not an apt comparison since they are different mediums and not every Cage run has been good. OG cage was actually more like the Snipes Blade before the Snipes Blade. A sanitized, teeny bopper version of the same archetype was the over the top personality the 2003 Teen Titans Cyborg had without any of the man vs machine stuff. BA Baracus is another example, but not my favorite one. All ESTPs. There’s an ESTP is the new Top Gun, and he has lines that remind me of early Cage— The character: Hangman. It’s not just about not being a Saint— It’s the swagger. And I’m not talking about Colter using R&B video smooth talk.

[LukeCagefan]

Luke's netflix counterpart wasn't a saint either. As for what personality would make him successful, you only need to look at how many people watched the netflix show vs how many have ever read a comic.

What works for television doesn't work for comics all the time. Cage Netflix fans don't read comics. Funny thing is a lot of Cage's critics from Netflix also had complaints about Colter's stiffness and said he was boring. I disagree, but I heard that quite a bit.

[LukeCagefan]

Not an apt comparison since they are different mediums and not every Cage run has been good. OG cage was actually more like the Snipes Blade before the Snipes Blade. A sanitized, teeny bopper version of the same archetype was the over the top personality the 2003 Teen Titans Cyborg had without any of the man vs machine stuff. BA Baracus is another example, but not my favorite one. All ESTPs. There’s an ESTP is the new Top Gun, and he has lines that remind me of early Cage— The character: Hangman. It’s not just about not being a Saint— It’s the swagger. And I’m not talking about Colter using R&B video smooth talk.

That's still the most popular version of Cyborg haha. You're spot on per usual lol. What in Top Gun reminded you of Cage?

[Agent Z]

Not an apt comparison since they are different mediums and not every Cage run has been good.

Given he hasn't had a solo since the 90s - where he still had his original personality - it seems to me the issue hindering him now is not his new characterization.

It’s not just about not being a Saint— It’s the swagger. And I’m not talking about Colter using R&B video smooth talk.

You guys kept brining up his being a saint and supposed lack of flaws so often I assumed that was the case. I don't know what you mean by "swagger", but it clearly wasn't helping him for a long time before Bendis took an interest in him during the 2000s.

[Agent Z]

What works for television doesn't work for comics all the time.

I've seen nothing to indicate having Luke be similar to his Netflix depiction would be an issue for the comics.

Cage Netflix fans don't read comics.

For a number of reasons, not the least of which is how difficult it is to get into superhero comics by the Big 2.

[Agent Z]

I ‘m as big a Cage fan as anyone else, but I get it— Luke doesn’t bring out interesting sides of Jessica’s character or vice versa. Plus the most recent comic version (Post-Bendis) and the Netflix version have dry personalities because people keep pushing Luke as a saint-like paragon of Black/urban America, and there’s no humanity there— No quirks or internal struggles like he originally had. Just my opinion. Luke’s character needs new life to be able to stand on his own two feet and carry his own franchise as a leading man again. Moving in the direction of fewer super hero elements in his stories limits his storytelling potential too.

Is there an instance when two separate franchise leads successfully married? Closest I can think of is Green Arrow (who the original Luke had some personality traits in common with) and Black Canary, who often takes the back seat between the two outside of her BoP stories.

Oh, and I agree he would be proactive in anything threatening his family— Regardless of which era we’re talking about.

Luke and Jessica aren't really separate franchise leads. Her original book had her interacting with various Marvel characters and she ultimately ended up with Luke.

[LukeCagefan]

I've seen nothing to indicate having Luke be similar to his Netflix depiction would be an issue for the comics.



For a number of reasons, not the least of which is how difficult it is to get into superhero comics by the Big 2.

Cage comics aren't difficult to get into. There's various ways to read comics nowadays and a simple Google search can help guide someone if they're looking. I didn't see Netflix Cage was a saint. I said he should never be one. It's not who he is. I was replying to a comment.

[LukeCagefan]

Luke and Jessica aren't really separate franchise leads. Her original book had her interacting with various Marvel characters and she ultimately ended up with Luke.

That was before her Netflix series and it's clear as day she has risen in popularity and Marvel has made more of an effort to push her since the release of her series. Bendis actually kept a lot of Cage's personality. I don't think the issue is there was something wrong with his character pre Bendis. Bendis was Marvel's most popular writer for a long day and he had an interest in Luke Cage so he crammed in just about every story he was writing. It was more s writer willing to do something rather than an issue with the character. The original Cage series had a pretty long run as did the Power Man and Iron Fist series. 90s Cage just didn't work for people and it was around a time where every single badass character was getting a series in the 90's from Wolverine, Venom, War Machine, Lobo, Spawn, Ghost Rider, etc. It was a tough market but I think he was fine. Bottom line, in my opinion, I don't think changing Cage to be more like Mike Colter is going to sell comics. Might work on television but not comics. Most people wanna see Cage be closer to John Shaft than a guy getting stomped by the police while pleading for them to stop. Or babysit while his wife goes out to handle Killgrave. That's not Cage.

[SecretWarrior]

Given he hasn't had a solo since the 90s - where he still had his original personality - it seems to me the issue hindering him now is not his new characterization.




You guys kept brining up his being a saint and supposed lack of flaws so often I assumed that was the case. I don't know what you mean by "swagger", but it clearly wasn't helping him for a long time before Bendis took an interest in him during the 2000s.

He had a duo book with Iron Fist a few years ago.

All of the stuff the worked in his early solo years—base of operations, business, super identity, supporting cast, etc.— has been pushed off to the side for team stuff, whether that be Avengers, Heroes for Hire, etc.

And the stuff that wasn’t working pre Bendis was people failing to translate what worked in the original run to modern day. Instead of using the elements I listed above or the Count of Monte Cristo thing, people just started trying to make him a super powered street thug from a 00s/90s rap/hip hop video. I’m not interested in Cage being turned into 50 Cent. I cited more apt comparisons for his swagger. And I would keep the superhero business man elements.

[SecretWarrior]

That's still the most popular version of Cyborg haha. You're spot on per usual lol. What in Top Gun reminded you of Cage?

Just how utterly confidant and capable that guy was while being a lone wolf at the same time— Luke was naturally like that a bit, but it was amped up by becoming literally bulletproof.

I can hear Luke saying some of his lines, like:

“I’m very good. In fact, I am too good to be true.”

What a great way to psyche people out while marketing yourself.

He knows he’s the best, and he’s not here to make friends.