John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2022

[HandofPrometheus]

It's time to stop worrying about who is iconic or not.

The public does not CARE. They only care if the story is worth it or not.

Fanboys want to use that as a barrier especially towards those characters that they don't care for. ESPECIALLY POC.

The public does not care. They never have.

Fatality's origin can be rewritten.

Unused villains can be reworked. It's not that hard.

Thank you! I’m tired of this argument.

[Cosmic Emerald 23]

Some available villains for John:
1. Starbreaker
2. Eclipso
3. Despero
4. Darkstar/Manhunter Representative
They've definitely got some good ass material to work with here. The real question is: Do they know/care enough to use it? I would hope so, but only time will tell.

[LukeCagefan]

It's time to stop worrying about who is iconic or not.

The public does not CARE. They only care if the story is worth it or not.

Fanboys want to use that as a barrier especially towards those characters that they don't care for. ESPECIALLY POC.

The public does not care. They never have.

Fatality's origin can be rewritten.

Unused villains can be reworked. It's not that hard.

Co-signed on this. I don't care to see Sinestro. Give me the Manhunters, Despero and Fatality. Give me Katma.

[Sodam Yat]

The Manhunters would have been my pick, as you get to explore the themes of over-policing and our fears of technology in one great set of baddies that have strong connections to the Oans and, as a bonus, aren't yet another one of Hal villains.

That said, I think the hook for Sinestro and John as great enemies has always been there through Katma Tui, who was Sinestro's protege who lead a revolution against him, as well as John's teacher and great love. However, that would require investing time and energy into a female character

This was exactly what I was thinking. It would be great to introduce the Manhunters in a John-led film. I wonder how this movie would've been if it was based off on that idea?

Yeah it certainly gives a legit reason on why there can be a relationship with John and Sinestro through Katma Tui.

[Sodam Yat]

I get Fatality but what about Despero? He's cool and he was a good antagonist in Justice League Hearts and Minds. And couldn't Fatality's origin be altered? They could find another reason why she would hate John, right? They change everything else lol. I hate that the Xanshi plot anyways.

The Justice League Hearts and Minds is one of my favorite fight scenes with John Stewart. Yeah Despero can work, because he seems more of a bigger adversary than Fatality, given his abilities. Fatality is very skilled in her own right, but she doesn't come off as a real cosmic threat imo. John has grown to be a great competent leader and tactician, where he should have villains that are a bigger cosmic threat than her. The problem with Fatality is that the very core concept of her character comes from a planet that was destroyed. There's no way of avoiding that. You're better off creating a new villain.

Even if Xanshi being destroyed was undone where Fatality becomes a villain for whatever reason, a Hal fan writer like Geoff Johns would just have that planet destroyed again and make John the fault, which would be some kind of revenge to what they did to Hal Jordan in this film.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Even if Xanshi being destroyed was undone where Fatality becomes a villain for whatever reason, a Hal fan writer like Geoff Johns would just have that planet destroyed again and make John the fault, which would be some kind of revenge to what they did to Hal Jordan in this film.

And in the highly unlikely event that something like that happens, the GL franchise would continue to spiral. Good stories tend to come from passionate creators focusing their talents on crafting stories that showcase what they love about these characters, not making decisions in any way predicated on petty nerd rivalries.

I don't think anyone involved in the making of Beware My Power was trying to settle any scores, but I would have hoped that someone, at any point during the making of it, had thought a little harder about whether or not those creative decisions would have the kind of payoff they were hoping for, or if it would lead to an underwhelming climax that would alienate some of the people interested in buying their product

[John Venus]

-To echo what skyvolt2000 said, characters don't have to be iconic to be successful. Audiences will show up if you put out a good story. Plus I always hated the iconic bullshit from the Didio/Johns era. What's iconic is subjective and dependent on the era you grew up with and ironically 'iconic' never applied to stuff that wasn't a part of their childhood nostalgia.

-Fatality's backstory can always be retconned. Just have it so that she is not from Xanshi but from the massacre of Sector 666 and thus has it out for the GL's. Or just retcon the Xanshi thing, just like how everything else from Cosmic Odyssey was or blame it on alien fear bugs like they did for Hal Jordan. Truth be told, I would be fine if we never hear the word 'Xanshi' in the same context with John Stewart for the next 20 years.

I wasn't suggesting Fatality being the main villain. She is more befitting an antagonist anyway. Despero and the Manhunters are whom I would prefer to be the main antagonist. IMO, Fatality should be like his Catwoman.

[Sodam Yat]

And in the highly unlikely event that something like that happens, the GL franchise would continue to spiral. Good stories tend to come from passionate creators focusing their talents on crafting stories that showcase what they love about these characters, not making decisions in any way predicated on petty nerd rivalries.

I don't think anyone involved in the making of Beware My Power was trying to settle any scores, but I would have hoped that someone, at any point during the making of it, had thought a little harder about whether or not those creative decisions would have the kind of payoff they were hoping for, or if it would lead to an underwhelming climax that would alienate some of the people interested in buying their product

It just gave me a little paranoia on that possibility lol. I certainly don't want John to get treated worse in the comic books.

I don't think the writers behind this movie had any intentions of trying to go after Hal Jordan fans. I think they saw whatever happened in those events like ET, Final Night, etc. were good stories and thought it would make a good story to tell in an animation film. Those were big events and made an impact on the Green Lantern mythos and the DCU at that time. They were never told in a animated film before. So they mixed those events, some DCAU nostalgia, and John's origin as being specifically selected among the guardians to be in this film. What happened was that they seemed to prioritize general audience over Hal fans, since the general audience will show up if you put out a good story as what was said earlier. Hal Jordan fans were disregarded unfortunately.

[skyvolt2000]

-To echo what skyvolt2000 said, characters don't have to be iconic to be successful. Audiences will show up if you put out a good story. Plus I always hated the iconic bullshit from the Didio/Johns era. What's iconic is subjective and dependent on the era you grew up with and ironically 'iconic' never applied to stuff that wasn't a part of their childhood nostalgia.

If we are going to use that like they did for Cyborg's face plate excuse.

Shouldn't that apply to everybody???

Harley is NOT wearing the outfit that everyone got introduced to.

Supergirl is not in hers.

How many outfits has Falcon ran through?

We got a new Static figure. Not in the animated costume that everyone WANTS but the one JIM LEE made.


And what is the icon story for John anyway? Not that planet story.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It just gave me a little paranoia on that possibility lol. I certainly don't want John to get treated worse in the comic books.

I don't think the writers behind this movie had any intentions of trying to go after Hal Jordan fans. I think they saw whatever happened in those events like ET, Final Night, etc. were good stories and thought it would make a good story to tell in an animation film. Those were big events and made an impact on the Green Lantern mythos and the DCU at that time. They were never told in a animated film before. So they mixed those events, some DCAU nostalgia, and John's origin as being specifically selected among the guardians to be in this film. What happened was that they seemed to prioritize general audience over Hal fans, since the general audience will show up if you put out a good story as what was said earlier. Hal Jordan fans were disregarded unfortunately.

Totally agree that the average person doesn’t care about any of this. Tom Cruise’s first Mission: Impossible movie is a great example. Jim Phelps was the stalwart hero of several years worth of stories spanning decades and most audiences couldn’t have cared less when he was tossed aside for Cruise’s Ethan Hunt. I mean, the actor Peter Graves, who played Phelps for all those years certainly cared, as did a lot of the diehard fans of the old show, but that obviously made little difference to the success or failure of the Mission Impossible franchise. General audiences are showing up to see Tom Cruise do crazy stunts and those films have delivered on that promise.

Likewise, I don’t think the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern film failed because it wasn’t about John Stewart as I’ve heard some, including even the late great Neal Adams, suggest. It failed because it wasn’t a particularly great film and its production cost exceeded what an untested superhero franchise merited. It tried to do too much in film because there was no singular vision driving it. It felt like a bunch of different producers all with different ideas, none of which agreed with one another, and with a director and actor stuck in the middle.

Beware My Power is in a very different position because those DTV films cost so much less, but the audience is also much, much smaller. It’s more of a niche product for a niche audience that’s certainly broader than the average comics reader, but I’d guess that these films are still much more dependent upon nerds with disposable income than any big budget superhero movie is.

If they had the running time to pull it off, I think it’d mitigate the potential and predictable nerd rage that’d come with these kinds of tired ‘twists’, but given all the plates they have spinning, I don’t see what they gained from doing this because it means their film’s 3rd act isn’t as strong as it could be.

[Mantis-Ray]

Ya know if Sinestro really is the most "iconic" Green Lantern villain then thats all the more reason to use villains other than Sinestro. Like there's nothing worse than for a franchise to be pigeonholed into using the same exact elements over and over again cause its "iconic".

Thats exactly what lead to Joker fatigue, Joker is the most "iconic" Batman villain so it meant he always has to show up even at the expense of other villains. Like thats the exact argument why people keep saying Joker should be the villain of the next Reeves movie cause he's the iconic nemesis so "he has to have his own movie again"

And it affects other characters as well. Lex Luthor and General Zod keep getting adapted in films at the expense of other villains because of their "iconic" appearances in the original Superman movies. Then there's Aquaman who is defined purely by Black Manta and Ocean Master.

The fact that Sinestro is the only Green Lantern villain that apparently matters is a pretty bad state of affairs for the GL franchise. A varied cast is paramount for a franchise's long-term quality after all.

[SiegePerilous02]

-To echo what skyvolt2000 said, characters don't have to be iconic to be successful. Audiences will show up if you put out a good story. Plus I always hated the iconic bullshit from the Didio/Johns era. What's iconic is subjective and dependent on the era you grew up with and ironically 'iconic' never applied to stuff that wasn't a part of their childhood nostalgia.

-Fatality's backstory can always be retconned. Just have it so that she is not from Xanshi but from the massacre of Sector 666 and thus has it out for the GL's. Or just retcon the Xanshi thing, just like how everything else from Cosmic Odyssey was or blame it on alien fear bugs like they did for Hal Jordan. Truth be told, I would be fine if we never hear the word 'Xanshi' in the same context with John Stewart for the next 20 years.

I wasn't suggesting Fatality being the main villain. She is more befitting an antagonist anyway. Despero and the Manhunters are whom I would prefer to be the main antagonist. IMO, Fatality should be like his Catwoman.

Agree with all of this. Most of John's success and his own iconic status comes from the DCAU, where they barely touched upon Xanshi (which if I recall, was revealed in this universe to not have actually blown up) and mostly made brand new stories for him from scratch. He "borrowed" Sinestro and Star Sapphire (who may not have even been Carol) from Hal, but didn't recreate their dynamics with them. The lack of any iconic stories for John in comics clearly isn't a detriment if you have creators from other media who are good with coming up with their own stories.

Is there a pre-requisite that the DTVs MUST be adapted from specific story arcs instead of original stories? The original DCAU drew inspiration from years of comics, but didn't directly adapt too many stories. And look what they did with Mr. Freeze after only a handful of silly Silver Age issues. They took the name and re-invented him from the ground up. Nobody can manage the same with Fatality or the Manhunters or the Empire of Tears for John (or for the franchise in general)? And Sinestro can be used, it's a good idea for him and John to fight in other media, but they have to either recreate Sinestro vs. Hal or do this half assed ET rehash. Whereas a unique dynamic between them that also involves Katma seems like a no-brainer.

[John Venus]

The JLU show was broadcast on tv and reached millions.

The DTV's OTOH are for niche audiences. That's why they adapt well selling characters and story arcs. They see the numbers for stories like Death of Superman, Killing Joke, Year One, Emerald Twilight, All Star Superman and proceeds to adapt them. I imagine (and this is purely from an outsider trying to get a peek inside perspective), DC seems to think adding a reference to a well known work would add another dollar to the sales even if it comes at the detriment of actual story telling.

[Frontier]

Did Emerald Twilight actually sell well? I know critically it never seemed that popular (unless you thought Parallax was a good idea) but I don't know about commercially.

[John Venus]

According to Gerard Jones, it did cause a sales spike and kept the franchise viable for the next several years: https://www.cbr.com/green-lantern-em...ight-original/

It sounds like Gerard was already planning on putting Hal on sabbatical and let a new GL fill in for a while because the title was floundering at the time. But he had a falling out with the editor and the creative heads at the time wanted to go bigger and bolder. Not even 'Death of Superman' and 'Knightfall' were considered 'big enough' back then according to Gerard.