Superman Rogues Gallery Appreciation 2022

[Frontier]

Rereading that brief New 52 run right now and it’s actually pretty good. Not on the same level as his Pre-Flashpoint work but enjoyable enough, and it does do a couple things I like such as the Machinist and Clark telling Jimmy his secret. Would’ve been better received if it hadn’t had Romita doing the art I reckon, and Johns hadn’t bailed yet again before wrapping up his plot threads.

Ulysses had some real potential too, even though he was another “Evil Superman” Rogue.

I remember people complaining about Clark going back to the Planet...although I don't think anyone really cared about his and Cat's blog.

[Vordan]

I remember people complaining about Clark going back to the Planet...although I don't think anyone really cared about his and Cat's blog.

The blog was a good idea that never really went anywhere (like so many other New 52 ideas). If I had been here back then I definitely would’ve complained about going back to the Planet however .



When it comes to the Daily Planet I think Fraction has provided a believable “out” for why the Planet still operates as an old time newspaper, Jimmy blackmailed Lex into funding it under the table the way a lot of billionaires “own” the news now except it’s Lex being forced to fund good reporting, but I do think the New 52 trying to “update it” to reflect the modern era of news and shakeups like Perry stepping down and Lois becoming editor in chief are ideas worth revisiting at some point.

[Frontier]

The blog was a good idea that never really went anywhere (like so many other New 52 ideas). If I had been here back then I definitely would’ve complained about going back to the Planet however .



When it comes to the Daily Planet I think Fraction has provided a believable “out” for why the Planet still operates as an old time newspaper, Jimmy blackmailed Lex into funding it under the table the way a lot of billionaires “own” the news now except it’s Lex being forced to fund good reporting, but I do think the New 52 trying to “update it” to reflect the modern era of news and shakeups like Perry stepping down and Lois becoming editor in chief are ideas worth revisiting at some point.

Even Clark was EIC at some point. It's a revolving door centered around when Perry can't do it for a period of time .

[Prime]

Rereading that brief New 52 run right now and it’s actually pretty good. Not on the same level as his Pre-Flashpoint work but enjoyable enough, and it does do a couple things I like such as the Machinist and Clark telling Jimmy his secret. Would’ve been better received if it hadn’t had Romita doing the art I reckon, and Johns hadn’t bailed yet again before wrapping up his plot threads.

Ulysses had some real potential too, even though he was another “Evil Superman” Rogue.

Whatever happened to Ulysses?

[Lvenger]

Whatever happened to Ulysses?

He hasn't made an appearance since The Last Days of Superman where he fought New 52 Superman in an ARGUS prison and realised New 52 Superman was dying. Ulysses was quite a bland attempt at a sympathetic antagonist, so I'm not surprised The Machinist has made a further appearance where Ulysses hasn't.

[Vordan]

He hasn't made an appearance since The Last Days of Superman where he fought New 52 Superman in an ARGUS prison and realised New 52 Superman was dying. Ulysses was quite a bland attempt at a sympathetic antagonist, so I'm not surprised The Machinist has made a further appearance where Ulysses hasn't.

Last time we saw him was in The Final Days of Superman:



He could’ve been interesting, a “Lost Son of Earth”, who puts his adopted homeworld over his birth one to the point of being willing to destroy his birth world to save his adopted one, feels like a good foe to use for storylines examining how far Clark is willing to go in order to save Earth. Could be a deconstruction of the Post Crisis Superman mindset, examine that “Krypton may be where I was born but Earth is my true home” mindset and how it might not be a totally healthy thing to possess. But he never capitalized on that concept to my satisfaction.

[Thor-Ul]

He hasn't made an appearance since The Last Days of Superman where he fought New 52 Superman in an ARGUS prison and realised New 52 Superman was dying. Ulysses was quite a bland attempt at a sympathetic antagonist, so I'm not surprised The Machinist has made a further appearance where Ulysses hasn't.

But Ulysses had a more interesting starting point however. The Machinist was like the standard "oh look me how evil I am" mysterious villian.

[Thor-Ul]

He could’ve been interesting, a “Lost Son of Earth”, who puts his adopted homeworld over his birth one to the point of being willing to destroy his birth world to save his adopted one, feels like a good foe to use for storylines examining how far Clark is willing to go in order to save Earth. Could be a deconstruction of the Post Crisis Superman mindset, examine that “Krypton may be where I was born but Earth is my true home” mindset and how it might not be a totally healthy thing to possess. But he never capitalized on that concept to my satisfaction.

The immigrant dilemma: what if your adopted country goes to war against your birthing country? Towards whom are you going to be loyal?

[Lvenger]

Last time we saw him was in The Final Days of Superman:



He could’ve been interesting, a “Lost Son of Earth”, who puts his adopted homeworld over his birth one to the point of being willing to destroy his birth world to save his adopted one, feels like a good foe to use for storylines examining how far Clark is willing to go in order to save Earth. Could be a deconstruction of the Post Crisis Superman mindset, examine that “Krypton may be where I was born but Earth is my true home” mindset and how it might not be a totally healthy thing to possess. But he never capitalized on that concept to my satisfaction.

Thanks for the correction on the title being The Final Days of Superman rather than The Last Days. Funnily enough, that’s the page I was thinking of when I was writing my post about Ulysses’ last appearance.

Your theory on what Ulysses could have represented as a Superman antagonist is interesting to think about. Over the years, I’ve grown to appreciate the characterisation of Superman as someone whose Kryptonian heritage, culture and knowledge is entwined with his Kansas rural upbringing by the Kent’s. The Maggins/Bates era of Superman comics and Busiek’s One Year later run are the best examples of this. However, although I don’t subscribe to the Post Crisis mentality, I do believe that Superman’s defining character traits, and his heroism, come from his upbringing by the Kent’s which should play a large part in why Superman fights for a better tomorrow.

[Lvenger]

But Ulysses had a more interesting starting point however. The Machinist was like the standard "oh look me how evil I am" mysterious villian.

Initially, I was invested in the original Men of Tomorrow storyline as I hadn’t been that interested in New 52 Superman stories. Ulysses seemed like a more interesting character than The Machinist. However, the ending where Ulysses goes crazy and tries to destroy the Earth felt very predictable, and it was basically a publicity stunt for the first appearance of Superman’s new Solar Flare power.

Also, whilst I love the flying brick powerset, Superman has a dime a dozen of enemies with the exact same powers whereas the Machinist brought something new to the table. And as Vordan has posted compellingly, The Machinist has a high tech gunrunner feel to him which is a way to bring a Golden Age style Superman enemy into the modern era against a more powerful, worldly Superman.

[Vordan]

Thanks for the correction on the title being The Final Days of Superman rather than The Last Days. Funnily enough, that’s the page I was thinking of when I was writing my post about Ulysses’ last appearance.

Your theory on what Ulysses could have represented as a Superman antagonist is interesting to think about. Over the years, I’ve grown to appreciate the characterisation of Superman as someone whose Kryptonian heritage, culture and knowledge is entwined with his Kansas rural upbringing by the Kent’s. The Maggins/Bates era of Superman comics and Busiek’s One Year later run are the best examples of this. However, although I don’t subscribe to the Post Crisis mentality, I do believe that Superman’s defining character traits, and his heroism, come from his upbringing by the Kent’s which should play a large part in why Superman fights for a better tomorrow.

I agree just for the record. Something like Red Son shows that Clark would have likely been a hero no matter where he ended up, as a person he leans towards compassion for others, long as he found a good home, but the specific Superman as we know him (doesn’t want to impose his will on others, refrains from killing, shows restraint) is a product of the Kents. I just think completely erasing his Kryptonian side robs him of a lot of nuance and interesting character traits, like if Luke Skywalker could never be anything more than a “farm boy from Tatooine”. Even the Triangle Era guys I think would agree with me since they started slowly having Clark take more interest in his heritage over time.

With Ulysses specifically I see him as a deconstruction of one of Clark’s big character flaws: his need for public approval and validation. That is after all why he doesn’t wear a mask, he wants people to like him and approve of him. Ulysses shows what happens when that desire overrides your sense of right and wrong. He’s so desperate to stay in the good graces of his adopted homeworld, to show that he’s “one of them”, that he’s willing to turn on his birth world to do it rather than try to find another way. I think the two big mistakes they made were:

1. Destroying his home world. What should have happened is that Supes and Ulysses found a way to save it, but his adopted homeworld exiled him for what they see as a lack of loyalty. When the chips were down Ulysses didn’t put his homeworld above every other concern, so they banish him, and that causes him to snap. Now he’s desperate to get back in their affections any way possible which sets him up to be a really interesting ongoing villain for Superman with a motive beyond just RAAAGH IM GONNA KILL YOU CLARK (which he won’t because only Doomsday gets that feat). Have them task him with a list of undertakings he needs to complete in order to demonstrate his loyalty again so he can return home, and have those undertakings get more and more morally repugnant. Give Ulysses a life back home, friends and loved ones he desperately wants to see again to justify why he’s willing to go to such lengths in order to go home. Now you’ve got a villain for Clark who makes him wonder what he would be willing to do if Earth banished him and he couldn’t see Lois or Jon or his parents or Jimmy or any of the people he knows and loves again unless he worked for someone like Amanda Waller. Would he accept permanent exile over compromising his morals?

2. Making his caretakers abusive. I think it was implied they beat him or didn’t trust him or whatever. That to me is the wrong way to go because it cheapens the moral conflict. Oh they were evil so it’s not really that bad if they all died. Instead show that they did give Ulysses a good home and cared for him and loved him in their own way. They were decent people but they don’t want to die and they’re willing to sacrifice others in order to maintain their society. That makes things much more challenging for Clark because it forces him to ask himself if humanity would really act differently if their backs were up against the wall in a “us or them” scenario. If Earth forced him to choose between humanity and another planet, and he truly had no way out, what would he do? That to me is the kind of moral questions that Ulysses could invite, a way to make an otherwise bland “evil Superman” Rogue more interesting.

Of the two I still think the Machinist is better put together because his simplicity works in his favor, Ulysses needs a lot of fleshing out to work, but if I was tasked with revamping and making him an ongoing Superman Rogue when there’s already Zod and Bizarro, I do think Ulysses has some good ideas that could be utilized in a way to differentiate him. He’d make a great Rogue for Jon now that I think about it.

[Gaius]

Greg Woronchak - Layouts
Tom Raney - Bizarro
Adelso Corona - Darksied
Phil Jimenez - Brainiac
Talent Caldwell - Lex

[Frontier]

Greg Woronchak - Layouts
Tom Raney - Bizarro
Adelso Corona - Darksied
Phil Jimenez - Brainiac
Talent Caldwell - Lex

Just missing Zod .

[Last Son of Krypton]

Intergang in the BA trailer (the folks invading Kahndaq):

[Frontier]

Intergang in the BA trailer (the folks invading Kahndaq):

Weird they'd use Intergang here, but okay.