Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[Huntsman Spider]

All great ideas, as always

Thank you very much.

[Jness]

I'm really NOT a fan of the "you did THIS to me!!" vengeance trope. It was already tired decades ago when Venom first appeared.

It's been like this for a while. Debbie Downer time a bit:

I think based on the last several years of Spider-Man they've turned Peter into someone who's more of an *overall* loser, vs how he was originally presented: as a very smart/intelligent guy, overlooked in favor of the jocks in his classes and ending up with what *appeared* to be bad luck because his sense of responsibility as Spider-Man interfered with his regular life. During Spencer's run, this arc, and even significant portions of Slott's, I've noted that:

1
most arcs deal with one of the following:
* Peter is replaced temporarily by another character
* Peter deals with various multiversal variants of his character, often against multiversal threats or enemies
* Peter/Spider-Man is targeted for VENGEANCE by another character
* most major villian motivations rarely extend beyond something personal with Spider-Man
* larger emphasis on characters who aren't Spider-Man (that weird Spider related team that came together in Spencer's arc, Daughters of the Dragon in this one, Black Cat)

2
* Peter's intelligence has been incredibly de-emphasized in favor of his grit. I'm not sure if this is intended to make him more relatable to the modern day comics reader but his intelligence is rarely ever mentioned in main material. This was also notable with Ben, in that in his 90s run he *created* all of his gadgets whereas was now relying on Beyond to do things for him. The only remarks as to him being a scientist potentially on the level of the bigger brains are in off-canon alternative universes, whereas this used to be something other heroes would remark on (i.e. Mr Fantastic).
* Peter (and/or Ben) gets his ass handed to him *constantly*, and it's almost always a massively *intense* beating, like one you can't figure how he's getting up from even with powers. Peter's supposed to be strong, but he's not supposed to be indestructible.
* Most other conflicts in the book are created by Peter/Ben doing something incredibly stupid or otherwise screwing up, whether as a hero or as a person.

Everything in Well's upcoming arc screams all of this stuff - "What did Peter f up now?" complete with Peter looking bruised and battered. The solicitations for the upcoming issues promise Spider-Man in the fight of his life against:
Tombstone
A city worth of gangsters
Some Sinister Six Adaptoid

This, I think, is also why the portrayal of Ben has suffered. Ben looks like a loser because *Peter* is also a loser, as opposed to the earlier decades. The Peter prior to One More Day was a character who you felt *could* have been a scientist or something else but deliberately chose the life he had because it made it more convenient for him to be Spider-Man. Post OMD, I could never see Peter accomplishing much of anything because his only ability appears to be being able to get up from being punched all the time; he's got barely anything else going for him. Ben in the 90s was a clone of a guy who had a lot going for him and you could *see* having a lot going for him. Ben today reads like he's the twin brother of a loser and thus is also one.

I think one of the other posters already alluded to the fact comics really are nowhere *near* something approximating cultural significance as they once were, so I can totally understand - even if I disagree - with the way the character is being written nowadays. It wasn't being written as a way to get people into Ben, but nor do I think it was written as a way to write Ben out...it was written so that it could generate content, a new trademark for Marvel, and a more digestable story for Ben. I will be really surprised if the Jackal gets mentioned too much in whatever new series they might've been planning for him - more likely it'll be "I was a clone of Peter Parker but I tragically lost all the Peter Parker parts of me" and they'll just stop mentioning any of the convoluted backstory.

[HypnoHustler]

Some great analysis there. The constant massive beatdowns are especially disturbing. Peter and Ben have both been concussed and beaten within an inch of their lives so many times they should both have massive brain damage by now. It used to be a rare event like Doctor Doom beating him in ASM #350 or the first Morlun storyline. Now it’s constant. I was always against the CCA when it was around, but at least it encouraged some creative restraint. Peter’s face was covered in blood, with one eye swollen shut and I’m pretty sure it looked like a tooth was missing just in his latest throw-down with Ben in ASM #93. It just seemed like overkill, especially because it wasn’t a one-off but seems to happen every 3 or 5 issues now (case in point, Ben was beaten beyond recognition in one of the Devil’s Reign issues just a month or two ago).

[Captain Craig]

All I want to know at this point is this: Is there a structured plan in place for CHASM? Will there be a series of adequate length where Ben is healed?

I would be willing to follow a title, like say Superior SM was, knowing at some point a reversal conclusion of Ben fandom satisfaction was coming for the character.

Like, we all knew Otto wouldn't be Spidey forever but it was a fun, structured ride. Are there plans for this with Ben/CHASM????

[Spiderfan001]

It's been like this for a while. Debbie Downer time a bit:

I think based on the last several years of Spider-Man they've turned Peter into someone who's more of an *overall* loser, vs how he was originally presented: as a very smart/intelligent guy, overlooked in favor of the jocks in his classes and ending up with what *appeared* to be bad luck because his sense of responsibility as Spider-Man interfered with his regular life. During Spencer's run, this arc, and even significant portions of Slott's, I've noted that:

GOD THIS

And it's HORRIBLE, they need to stop ASAP.

[Kurolegacy]

All I want to know at this point is this: Is there a structured plan in place for CHASM? Will there be a series of adequate length where Ben is healed?

I would be willing to follow a title, like say Superior SM was, knowing at some point a reversal conclusion of Ben fandom satisfaction was coming for the character.

Like, we all knew Otto wouldn't be Spidey forever but it was a fun, structured ride. Are there plans for this with Ben/CHASM????

There are within Wells’ run though who knows when in the run we’ll see them.
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...e-chasm-begins

[ZeroBG82]

Are there plans for this with Ben/CHASM????

Wells intends to use him as Peter's new archenemy, if the comments that have appeared online are any indication. He blames Peter for what has happened to him and seeks to destroy him. They clearly want him to be Venom 2.0.

I've a hunch Wells and editorial are going to be disappointed when this boondoggle fails spectacularly.

Not for the first time, I blame Dan Slott. Should have left Ben dead. I spent twenty years wanting him back, but let's be honest, he had a good death that first go round. Now everything that I loved about the character has been systematically, deliberately and maliciously destroyed by creatives who want to laugh at me for daring to like a character that isn't Peter *well we actually hate him too if the stories are any indication* Parker.

They dug up my boy, gleefully and publicly defiled his corpse, and now want me to celebrate them for it.

[Refrax5]

Wells intends to use him as Peter's new archenemy, if the comments that have appeared online are any indication. He blames Peter for what has happened to him and seeks to destroy him. They clearly want him to be Venom 2.0.

I've a hunch Wells and editorial are going to be disappointed when this boondoggle fails spectacularly.

Not for the first time, I blame Dan Slott. Should have left Ben dead. I spent twenty years wanting him back, but let's be honest, he had a good death that first go round. Now everything that I loved about the character has been systematically, deliberately and maliciously destroyed by creatives who want to laugh at me for daring to like a character that isn't Peter *well we actually hate him too if the stories are any indication* Parker.

They dug up my boy, gleefully and publicly defiled his corpse, and now want me to celebrate them for it.

It does feel spiteful at times. And as much as I love him, it makes me resent Peter if anything. It doesn't help how often Peter treated Ben like crap or made jokes about him after his death. It just left such a bad taste in my mouth.

It's funny how the movies understood how to make multiple Peter Parkers work and the importance of treating each one with respect and not pitting them against each other. People loved it. In the comics, we get this trash.

[Spiderfan001]

It does feel spiteful at times. And as much as I love him, it makes me resent Peter if anything. It doesn't help how often Peter treated Ben like crap or made jokes about him after his death. It just left such a bad taste in my mouth.

It's funny how the movies understood how to make multiple Peter Parkers work and the importance of treating each one with respect and not pitting them against each other. People loved it. In the comics, we get this trash.

Comics really do get away w/ so much...

But let's not get it twisted, this wasn't done to make a Peter enemy since Wells didn't want to use Ben and Lowe did and as Lowe said he thinks Miles takes Bens place and thus he has none left... uh

[HypnoHustler]

Comics really do get away w/ so much...

But let's not get it twisted, this wasn't done to make a Peter enemy since Wells didn't want to use Ben and Lowe did and as Lowe said he thinks Miles takes Bens place and thus he has none left... uh

I keep hearing people here say Wells had the idea with Peter being the Beyond Spidey, but Lowe saying it should be Ben… and yet I’ve never heard confirmation of this. The one interview I’ve heard with Wells made it sound like their plan was to use Ben from the start.

[Spiderfan001]

I keep hearing people here say Wells had the idea with Peter being the Beyond Spidey, but Lowe saying it should be Ben… and yet I’ve never heard confirmation of this. The one interview I’ve heard with Wells made it sound like their plan was to use Ben from the start.

IIRC Wells said Lowe pitched Ben and the 19 issue arc stuff, and that Wells was told by other people in the office to also use Ben.I don't think Beyond was Wells idea, unless it plays into the glowy dude in 93 I think it's safe to say Beyond wasn't him.

[Minerboh]

I want Kaine back.
Just imagine the dynamic of his rivalry with Ben going into new territories now that Ben went full tsu-tsu brain.

[The Negative Zone]

Honestly, my biggest problem with Nick Lowe's statement is that Ben would be a "kid brother" to Spider-Man, when he and Peter are grown men. He doesn't need to be attached to Peter like that either way.

I'm kind of okay with Chasm. I can understand Ben's feelings and the suit looks cool. Just hope that a writer has a better idea for him afterward..

[Reilly]

The best case scenario is, like someone said before, this "Chasm" is Ben's version of "The Spider" and he'll find himself and his memories with Janine's help and he'll become Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man again.

The worst case scenario is, and I don't want this to happen, he'll become a villain who kills a lot of people, terrorize Peter's loved ones and his crazyness escalates every day. If this is going to happen, then he'll be gone forever. The stink will stay forever.

After some thinking, I think I can forgive a lot, but I can't and will not forgive killing and endangering people by Ben's hand. This is just a no-no for me, he can be crazy, he can have issues from what he's been through, but deep down he's not a killer and even if he does not remember who he used to be, as a Chasm he still made new memories with Janine and some with Peter, he doesn't remember this but he knows that he used to be a good guy because he's been told. He can't be too far gone, can he?

Somebody call Dr Strange, there's got to be a spell reversing all this crap. Or I dunno, Ben is on good terms with Death I guess, maybe she could help him. Some storage of memories hidden inside his soul? Everything is possible, let's hope it'll be JM DeMatteis who will fix this, he's the only one who actually understand Ben (among all the writers at Marvel's HQ).

I'm going back to crying and eating pancakes.

[Sr. Bungle]

The best case scenario is, like someone said before, this "Chasm" is Ben's version of "The Spider" and he'll find himself and his memories with Janine's help and he'll become Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man again.

The worst case scenario is, and I don't want this to happen, he'll become a villain who kills a lot of people, terrorize Peter's loved ones and his crazyness escalates every day. If this is going to happen, then he'll be gone forever. The stink will stay forever.

After some thinking, I think I can forgive a lot, but I can't and will not forgive killing and endangering people by Ben's hand. This is just a no-no for me, he can be crazy, he can have issues from what he's been through, but deep down he's not a killer and even if he does not remember who he used to be, as a Chasm he still made new memories with Janine and some with Peter, he doesn't remember this but he knows that he used to be a good guy because he's been told. He can't be too far gone, can he?

Somebody call Dr Strange, there's got to be a spell reversing all this crap. Or I dunno, Ben is on good terms with Death I guess, maybe she could help him. Some storage of memories hidden inside his soul? Everything is possible, let's hope it'll be JM DeMatteis who will fix this, he's the only one who actually understand Ben (among all the writers at Marvel's HQ).

I'm going back to crying and eating pancakes.

Venom recovered for killing a lot of people. Everything can be reversed in comics.