Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[MisterC]

spoilers:

Even the Chasm suit is so annoying because it's giving us the finger. They took the things we complain about - off centered chest spider and lack of external webshooters and put them here. But the rest of the suit is just the Beyond suit. I don't understand the like, active spite and maliciousnesd at play here? Who wants something they buy for entertainment to be actively designed to shit on them??

end of spoilers

[HypnoHustler]

How long til ASM 900. I can't wait to drink the tears of anyone convincing themselves Wells is gonna somehow be several orders of magnitude better here than he as been on this or Shed.

This will be undone as well. It's so stupid, spoilers:

the costume is so incredibly bad and blatantly looks like it was designed in 15 minutes. It has no staying power unless that hack makes by in a reoccurring character in his Spidey run but I doubt it immensely

end of spoilers

I have to agree. I hated the concept of NuJackal, but at least it was a cool costume. This doesn't even have that. There's three low points since Ben returned; Clone Conspiracy, PAD's Scarlet Spider #25, and now this conclusion to Beyond. I've already decided this is worse than SS #25. I'm now debating back and forth whether it's worse than CC. Ben was a bad guy in that, but at least he had his history intact and wasn't a brain-dead dummy dressed in a costume and with a new silly name that would be considered too 90s for the 90s.

[Refrax5]

Whatever happened to Kindred just being Harry and Peter confronting Mephisto?

The same thing that always happens; editorial interference. Five bucks gets you ten that Ben was originally just going to go to LA after Beyond, but Lowe thought it'd be "kewl" to have him become Chasm (which makes Spidercide sound like a mature and restrained codename in comparison).

That's my thought, too. This probably wasn't the original ending. I still am just baffled that anyone at Marvel thought this was a good thing to do with the character. When they announced Ben coming back, my excitement was tempered my nervousness of what they were going to do to him. I'm just so sick of this cheap, dumb, shock value writing.

[Sr. Bungle]

Having Ben acting OOC was bad. But this is another level is like killing Ben in the most cruel way possible and reanimating his corpse tomake another character. Cruel, dumb, baffling.

[bob.schoonover]

I don't want to go full Lit class, but did anyone or thing have a demonstrable character arc in this entire run? I get that sometimes serialized fiction means that sometimes arcs and plots are long-running or back-burnered, things get left dangling, and we're mostly left with the illusion of change rather than real change and growth, but seriously, what happened here? Both Chasm and Queen Goblin were things done to people, not character choices, Pete didn't really grow (or process anything that happened during Spencer's run) . . . are the big things here (in Beyond generally) May & Otto still have some chemistry and MJ & Felicia do capers occasionally?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd probably get JMD to write Chasm and let it be a sequel to his current miniseries.

I like Huntsman Spider's idea tho. It felt like a good coda to his days as the Jackal II.

See, the real problem is that Ben was created to be a younger Spider-Man, but Marvel keeps shoving Peter into that position because they don't want him married, so they just keep trying put the round peg that is Ben into a square hole because that's the only one that's left.

If OMD was undone, we could actually get a proper Ben again.

This reminds me of Tim Drake in a way. They both feel like a character made for a purpose they can't fulfill anymore.

[Kanos]

Do you think they will give Ben back his memories and his normal costume after the fan backlash? The PAD series had a suit with a hood and a mouth, people didn't like it and brought back the classic Scarlet Spider suit. Also in Spider-Geddon, issue 25 was ignored and Ben returned to normal. I understand that they don't care what the fans think about it. Marvel only wants the money, but I'm sure the Chasm series won't sell well and will be canceled, as will the both Scarlet Spider series and the second volume of Superior Spider-Man.

[Refrax5]

Do you think they will give Ben back his memories and his normal costume after the fan backlash? The PAD series had a suit with a hood and a mouth, people didn't like it and brought back the classic Scarlet Spider suit. Also in Spider-Geddon, issue 25 was ignored and Ben returned to normal. I understand that they don't care what the fans think about it. Marvel only wants the money, but I'm sure the Chasm series won't sell well and will be canceled, as will the both Scarlet Spider series and the second volume of Superior Spider-Man.

I think it's possible. If something is universally hated enough, comic companies have certainly been known to course-correct. I don't see this as another OMD scenario, simply because that feels like a very corporate decision for a big corporate brand (Spider-Man). Ben isn't nearly as massive a brand, so I think Marvel is much more flexible with that they do with him (for better or worse).

[MisterC]

I think it's possible. If something is universally hated enough, comic companies have certainly been known to course-correct. I don't see this as another OMD scenario, simply because that feels like a very corporate decision for a big corporate brand (Spider-Man). Ben isn't nearly as massive a brand, so I think Marvel is much more flexible with that they do with him (for better or worse).

I agree. It doesn't seem like they have any plans for him. The concept, costume, and name are all so lazy and flimsily thrown together it won't have any staying power. Whose interested in this? Do people who didn't care about Ben Reilly before want to see what happens next with this? I don't think many fans of Ben Reilly are excited or interested to see what happens next?

Like, the only people who care about Ben Reilly are just going to feel hurt and upset. Not excited or even concerned about what happens next to buy whatever this crap shows up in (probably another mini by a PAD quality bum).

The biggest fear is that Wells plans to use him in the upcoming ASM run. If that's the case we might be stuck with it awhile while Wells plays with the feces he dug up from the litterbox for us.

But I can't imagine the Disney/Marketing team being like "Yeah we can make money from a CHASM" mini series

[Sr. Bungle]

Another thing that's driving me mad. Why torture Ben (and us) for so many issues if they weere going to leave him btrain damaged at the end? Also, it's not a good look for Peter ruining so many people lives. After all, Ben existence of suffering is all Peter's responsabilty

[MisterC]

Another thing that's driving me mad. Why torture Ben (and us) for so many issues if they weere going to leave him btrain damaged at the end? Also, it's not a good look for Peter ruining so many people lives. After all, Ben existence of suffering is all Peter's responsabilty

Because they got paid. They threw together some half assed garbage and sold it to us. Cody Ziglar did it just for a few extra bucks on the side for his main gig as a tv writer. I hope to never see his name on a comic again. In fact all the people they brought in probably did it to make a quick buck and fill the gap left by Spencer's sudden departure after he whipped everyone up into a OMD frenzy to drive sales up to strengthen his negotiating stance for his substack contract.

[JustLuke]

I really don't like sounding like some sort of conspiracy theorist but it REALLY feels like this was done maliciously towards all of us who didn't like the direction the character took in CC and BR:SS. Like a deliberate "fuck you" and doubling down on the shit NO ONE likes and NO ONE wants. No one wants Ben Reilly to be a manical supervillain or edgy anti-hero or brain-damaged schizophrenic emo amnesiac who also might be an edgy anti-hero or manical supervillain, but for some reason they're forcing down our throats even though it NEVER WORKS AND NEVER WILL. At some point you have to forget the whole "angry fan = engaged fan" thing when it's clear fans are angry AND unengaged. It's not fucking rocket science you brain-dead halfwits. Stop fucking with characters like this.

[MisterC]

I really don't like sounding like some sort of conspiracy theorist but it REALLY feels like this was done maliciously towards all of us who didn't like the direction the character took in CC and BR:SS. Like a deliberate "fuck you" and doubling down on the shit NO ONE likes and NO ONE wants. No one wants Ben Reilly to be a manical supervillain or edgy anti-hero or brain-damaged schizophrenic emo amnesiac who also might be an edgy anti-hero or manical supervillain, but for some reason they're forcing down our throats even though it NEVER WORKS AND NEVER WILL. At some point you have to forget the whole "angry fan = engaged fan" thing when it's clear fans are angry AND unengaged. It's not fucking rocket science you brain-dead halfwits. Stop fucking with characters like this.

I think it's less conspiracy and more realistic and cynical.

Ultimately, not a lot of people are out here looking to great work on big 2 comics. Residuals have dried up so they don't get paid for original ideas or characters that become movies, the sales are not huge, and it's secondary to the movie and tv arms.

So what you have here is a bunch of friends bringing each other in to write whatever garbage they think can kick up a controversy to draw in attention or drive the speculator market and get paid while they can. Then take any attention or sales numbers they get and use it to negotiate a deal for an image book that they sell to Netflix or whatever streaming platform for a bad one season tv show that probably pays a years regular person salary for one script.

It's just a game of getting in and doing whatever it takes to bring in enough money to not have to get a real job again.

It's why I laugh when people act like Nick Spencer's run saw editorial interference, like the dude who brought us Nazi Cap is above telling a crap story.

[LordUltimus]

Does it draw attention, though? It seems to me like this is driving people away instead.

[ZeroBG82]

Does it draw attention, though? It seems to me like this is driving people away instead.

But that's a problem for the next guy. That's the thing with any 'I'mma get mine' kind of attitude. Set fire to whatever you have to in order to get paid, then move on and it's somebody else's problem.

Which you expect from writers these days. The real money is in creator owned or streaming television deals. So Big 2 comics is just mercenary rep building or a way to keep heat on your name. The problem is when EDITORS start taking the same approach, as Lowe seems to have. Gotta get his before they inevitably show him the door and it's the next guy's worry to clean up the dumpster fire.