Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[Huntsman Spider]

You've given me a thought: what if you've hit upon the already set upon conclusion to this Chasm storyline: that a renewed, whole Ben cannot live with himself for his Chasm actions and hits the road, essentially reestsblishing something approximate to his Lost Years characterization and status quo?

What would people think of that?

-Pav, who still can't believe they went with "Chasm" amd not "Recluse"...

That could be interesting, and it would be a contrast from PAD's Scarlet Spider where Ben started off still trying to justify himself after his more atrocious actions in Clone Conspiracy.

I don't see that happening so soon. They're going to try to make Chasm happen for a couple of arcs more at least.

Once again, I'm putting my eggs on the ATSV basket.

Would be a good bet, yeah.

[ZeroBG82]

You've given me a thought: what if you've hit upon the already set upon conclusion to this Chasm storyline

The already set upon conclusion to the Chasm storyline is Ben becomes a murdering sociopath and stays a villain until a more competent writer/editorial team gets the urge to fix him.

I get that you're always high on the hopium Pav, but it's time to wake up and smell the obvious stench of truth. Chasm isn't going anywhere. They wouldn't be doubling down on him this big if they weren't determined to stick it in the eye of every Ben Reilly fan who dared to love the character.

It's malice, plain and simple.

[Pav]

The already set upon conclusion to the Chasm storyline is Ben becomes a murdering sociopath and stays a villain until a more competent writer/editorial team gets the urge to fix him.

I get that you're always high on the hopium Pav, but it's time to wake up and smell the obvious stench of truth. Chasm isn't going anywhere. They wouldn't be doubling down on him this big if they weren't determined to stick it in the eye of every Ben Reilly fan who dared to love the character.

It's malice, plain and simple.

I very highly doubt that malice plays any role whatsoever in the decision to turn Ben into Chasm -- especially when we've already been told by Marvel that they didn't know what to do with Ben as a heroic Spidey: this was simply an attempt to give him an active role in the modern comics by people who apparently didn't see his original status quo as currently workable. Their reasons are their own.

I think fans make a mistake when they believe a creative decision they don't like was done to purposefully hurt the character or the fan base themselves. There are instances where it has happened, but those instances strike me as legitimately rare. I genuinely believe those in charge were hoping that people would like Ben showing up again, having a (different) role, gaining new powers and costume, etc.

The actual truth is that we don't know what the future holds, and it's just as likely that Ben has a redemption arc as not. Maybe they'll continue to make him the next Venom; maybe they'll fail to make it work and try the hero route with him again. Make it'll take another creative team to do it; maybe it won't. Regardless, I refuse to demonize the creative team for trying to tell their story, and honestly, in a way I appreciate their attempt at finding a role for Ben. I just wish, like many others, that they'd chose something more befitting the character as he's been portrayed historically.

-Pav, who doesn't feel the need to join the pessimism party...

[Kurolegacy]

You've given me a thought: what if you've hit upon the already set upon conclusion to this Chasm storyline: that a renewed, whole Ben cannot live with himself for his Chasm actions and hits the road, essentially reestsblishing something approximate to his Lost Years characterization and status quo?

What would people think of that?

-Pav, who still can't believe they went with "Chasm" amd not "Recluse"...

Would certainly fit in terms of characterization especially since he and Peter do what they do with the hard lesson that they learned from Uncle Ben’s death as a result of them being selfish. Place that on a larger scale of Ben trying to find himself and make up for those he harmed in his selfish time of trying to become whole and you have yourself a place for Ben that’s not filled by Peter or Miles with him taking his heroics on the road.

And personally I would have gone with Hollow rather than Chasm given how hollowed out he’s become to become what he is.

[Refrax5]

Pretty much, though Jackal-Ben at least had all his memories and full cognizance of who he was and what he was doing, even if he was psychologically (and spiritually) damaged from all the torturous deaths and revivals he'd been through at Warren's hands. Beyond robbed him of even that, with his foundational memories being stripped from him and whatever chemical soup he fell into at the end of that saga warping what was left of his mind, to say nothing of his body, even more. "Chasm" is a somewhat apt name, in that regard, as he's been emptied of everything that made him who he was and he's now trying to fill that gaping void with increasingly indiscriminate violence and mayhem. Still a tragic downfall for Ben Reilly's character, though.

I don't totally buy that. Ben being aware of himself and having his faculties intact makes it worse and he didn't speak or behave like Ben at all. He was a total sociopath, despite his supposed good intentions. He was planning to murder Peter and take his place. He didn't act or speak like Ben at all. Chasm Ben at least comes across as himself, albeit a twisted version. He's back to being a more brooding, serious character, tormented with identity issues. Jackal Ben was a cackling, smarmy corporate suit that seemed perfectly happy to be a monster. He was so out of character that Peter David had to write in the whole "corrupted soul" angle to explain why Ben was suddenly a slick conman willing to kill everyone on earth.

I'm not happy about any of this Chasm stuff either. But at least he talks like Ben and had his brain and body warped to behave this way. Jackal-Ben was THE lowest point for the character.

[Refrax5]

You've given me a thought: what if you've hit upon the already set upon conclusion to this Chasm storyline: that a renewed, whole Ben cannot live with himself for his Chasm actions and hits the road, essentially reestsblishing something approximate to his Lost Years characterization and status quo?

What would people think of that?

-Pav, who still can't believe they went with "Chasm" amd not "Recluse"...

That's what I've been saying for months!

[Refrax5]

I very highly doubt that malice plays any role whatsoever in the decision to turn Ben into Chasm -- especially when we've already been told by Marvel that they didn't know what to do with Ben as a heroic Spidey: this was simply an attempt to give him an active role in the modern comics by people who apparently didn't see his original status quo as currently workable. Their reasons are their own.

I think fans make a mistake when they believe a creative decision they don't like was done to purposefully hurt the character or the fan base themselves. There are instances where it has happened, but those instances strike me as legitimately rare. I genuinely believe those in charge were hoping that people would like Ben showing up again, having a (different) role, gaining new powers and costume, etc.

The actual truth is that we don't know what the future holds, and it's just as likely that Ben has a redemption arc as not. Maybe they'll continue to make him the next Venom; maybe they'll fail to make it work and try the hero route with him again. Make it'll take another creative team to do it; maybe it won't. Regardless, I refuse to demonize the creative team for trying to tell their story, and honestly, in a way I appreciate their attempt at finding a role for Ben. I just wish, like many others, that they'd chose something more befitting the character as he's been portrayed historically.

-Pav, who doesn't feel the need to join the pessimism party...

And I agree with all of this.

[Matt Rat]

Wait

Where's Ben?

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/11/29/ma...23-spider-man/

This is a mini-series, so Ben being missing doesn't mean they're broken up, the book's made a big deal about Janine being more 'ride or die' for Ben

[Sr. Bungle]

This is a mini-series, so Ben being missing doesn't mean they're broken up, the book's made a big deal about Janine being more 'ride or die' for Ben

She was about to leave him. That's Wells classic method of foreshadowing. Still, I hope you are right.

[t-spider]

Speaking of that mini, does seem Janines powers will deal with her different masks.... interested to see how that plays out.

[Refrax5]

She was about to leave him. That's Wells classic method of foreshadowing. Still, I hope you are right.

Not necessarily in this case. I think it was more to give Janine more of a reason to join Ben's cause and go supervillain herself. The whole scene where she's planning to leave him is mostly there to establish her reasons for going all in.

As for where Ben is, he could be anywhere. I doubt they went through all this trouble to kill him off after one appearance as Chasm. If he's not there, he might be in jail, trapped in Limbo, missing/presumed dead, etc.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't totally buy that. Ben being aware of himself and having his faculties intact makes it worse and he didn't speak or behave like Ben at all. He was a total sociopath, despite his supposed good intentions. He was planning to murder Peter and take his place. He didn't act or speak like Ben at all. Chasm Ben at least comes across as himself, albeit a twisted version. He's back to being a more brooding, serious character, tormented with identity issues. Jackal Ben was a cackling, smarmy corporate suit that seemed perfectly happy to be a monster. He was so out of character that Peter David had to write in the whole "corrupted soul" angle to explain why Ben was suddenly a slick conman willing to kill everyone on earth.

I'm not happy about any of this Chasm stuff either. But at least he talks like Ben and had his brain and body warped to behave this way. Jackal-Ben was THE lowest point for the character.

Fair enough.

[classicgmer]

I very highly doubt that malice plays any role whatsoever in the decision to turn Ben into Chasm -- especially when we've already been told by Marvel that they didn't know what to do with Ben as a heroic Spidey: this was simply an attempt to give him an active role in the modern comics by people who apparently didn't see his original status quo as currently workable. Their reasons are their own.

I think fans make a mistake when they believe a creative decision they don't like was done to purposefully hurt the character or the fan base themselves. There are instances where it has happened, but those instances strike me as legitimately rare. I genuinely believe those in charge were hoping that people would like Ben showing up again, having a (different) role, gaining new powers and costume, etc.

The actual truth is that we don't know what the future holds, and it's just as likely that Ben has a redemption arc as not. Maybe they'll continue to make him the next Venom; maybe they'll fail to make it work and try the hero route with him again. Make it'll take another creative team to do it; maybe it won't. Regardless, I refuse to demonize the creative team for trying to tell their story, and honestly, in a way I appreciate their attempt at finding a role for Ben. I just wish, like many others, that they'd chose something more befitting the character as he's been portrayed historically.

-Pav, who doesn't feel the need to join the pessimism party...

I don't believe there's any malice towards Ben or his fans from the Spidey editorial office but i do think they put themselves between a rock and a hard place the moment they thought there was any chance that people by and large would accept Ben in a villainous role.

It was obvious people weren't onboard with JackalBen or his subsequent adventures where he was just an unlikeable douche for the majority of the PAD SS series so for them to essentially double down by going the villain route again is just a complete waste of time to me. It's just a textbook example of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

[Huntsman Spider]

I don't believe there's any malice towards Ben or his fans from the Spidey editorial office but i do think they put themselves between a rock and a hard place the moment they thought there was any chance that people by and large would accept Ben in a villainous role.

It was obvious people weren't onboard with JackalBen or his subsequent adventures where he was just an unlikeable douche for the majority of the PAD SS series so for them to essentially double down by going the villain route again is just a complete waste of time to me. It's just a textbook example of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

Kind of like how after ten years, they finally let Peter and Mary Jane be in a healthy and loving relationship again, even if it wasn't marriage, and then as soon as that run concluded, they tripped all over themselves to break them up all over again. Yeah, at least when it comes to Spider-Man, Marvel editorial has a rather bad habit of doubling down on ideas that have been largely rejected or resisted by fans and readers.

[Obsidian Spider]

Had a few minutes to sketch our boy again and this is the only place I know it will be actually appreciated.