Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[NathanS]

So they're introducing like 7 new Spiders but there's no place for Ben...

To grab something I said elsewhere, Spider-Man having a bunch of Spider-people likely is very good for other products. You can get new market segments to more thoroughly emotionally engage with the already well-known and proven Spider-Man product line. You have lots of possible media spin-offs and lots of merchandise. But comic books can't sustain all of them so it's left scrambling to figure out what to do with them all. So yeah it's likely a case of both. Comics don't exist to tell stories, they exist to grow IPs to be used and the Spider-man crop is VERY bountiful so it becomes a cash crop.

[Dron]

So they're introducing like 7 new Spiders but there's no place for Ben...

Majority of these are most likely going to be one shots, unless they blow up huge like Spider-Gwen did.

[Huntsman Spider]

So, what do you guys think of this article?

https://www.cbr.com/ben-reilly-spide...el-spider-man/

Interesting piece. If Spidercide's return in Ben Reilly: Spider-Man turns out to be indirect foreshadowing for or commentary on the direction in which they're taking Ben . . .

[Spiderfan001]

Majority of these are most likely going to be one shots, unless they blow up huge like Spider-Gwen did.

The point is the head editor said Ben had no place in the Spider-landscape because of Peter and Miles.Peter and Ben co-existed for a long time so I gotta ask wtf Miles is doing that steps in Ben's territory.

[Sr. Bungle]

The point is the head editor said Ben had no place in the Spider-landscape because of Peter and Miles.Peter and Ben co-existed for a long time so I gotta ask wtf Miles is doing that steps in Ben's territory.

That's good ol' Nick Lowe for you

[boots]

not to say i agree with the direction they've taken ben in, but i think there's a difference in nuance between his place in the marvel universe and alt universe spiders.

[Spiderfan001]

not to say i agree with the direction they've taken ben in, but i think there's a difference in nuance between his place in the marvel universe and alt universe spiders.

Miles is in 616 though

[boots]

Miles is in 616 though

sure, isn't that their thesis?

that we have 2 mainstream 616 spider-men in the traditional marvel hero mould? so a third is hard to place? because the degrees of difference between them all are slighter than say, spider-noir or spider-uk?

kaine being less old skool kaine and more traditional marvel (anti) hero now doesn't help.

i get their issue. it would come up in any creative meeting about the direction of characters. what i don't get is their solution.

i think if we could show examples of how multiple iterations of the "same character" have co-existed successfully, there might be more meat there to slap marvel in the face with.

[Spiderfan001]

sure, isn't that their thesis?

that we have 2 mainstream 616 spider-men in the traditional marvel hero mould? so a third is hard to place? because the degrees of difference between them all are slighter than say, spider-noir or spider-uk?

kaine being less old skool kaine and more traditional marvel (anti) hero now doesn't help.

i get their issue. it would come up in any creative meeting about the direction of characters. what i don't get is their solution.

i think if we could show examples of how multiple iterations of the "same character" have co-existed successfully, there might be more meat there to slap marvel in the face with.

Except Ben existed before Miles, and Miles was 1610 Spider-man's legacy.So why tf is he being shafted specially when Beyond started w/ the head writer and editor saying how much they feel for the character and want to do right by him?

Also so it's okay to shaft characters because too many characters w/ the same name is messy, but Miles should get special treatment by Marvel why? All these characters Peter, Ben and Kaine existed before Miles and are on their native earth why are any of them being sidelined for Miles. If Miles being Spider-man doesn't effect Peter then Ben and Kaine being Spider-people shouldn't affect Miles as well

And Ben fans were perfectly happy w/ him as Scarlet Spider, specially in comparison to Beyond and Chasm.

[boots]

Except Ben existed before Miles, and Miles was 1610 Spider-man's legacy.So why tf is he being shafted specially when Beyond started w/ the head writer and editor saying how much they feel for the character and want to do right by him?

i'm not really sure why the order of character creation is important?

i have nothing against miles. not for coming after ben and not for being an alt character that they brought over to the mainstream. i have no interest in him, but i don't think that makes him somehow less worthy of the place he currently occupies.

i mean, if this stuff matters, miles has been active as a spider-man in terms of published years longer than ben.

not that i can see how it does.

If Miles being Spider-man doesn't effect Peter then Ben and Kaine being Spider-people shouldn't affect Miles as well

it's a cumulative thing, though. it's not peter and miles co-exist therefore x number of spider-men can also co-exist. there's an upper limit to this kinda thing.

if marvel replaced all their heroes with spider-men, i doubt that would work. not that i want to give slott any ideas.

And Ben fans were perfectly happy w/ him as Scarlet Spider, specially in comparison to Beyond and Chasm.

i mean, this is nuanced too, right?

ben was scarlet spider in the PAD run, but i don't know if many readers on this board were "perfectly happy".

and even a classic depiction of ben in the scarlet spider moniker still presents a similar product with a slightly different label on the tin.

Also so it's okay to shaft characters because too many characters w/ the same name is messy

i'm unsure where you're getting this notion that it's ok. unless you're role playing a marvel exec?



on the nuances of the difference between ben, peter, miles, kaine and the spider-verse spiders: to me, many of those alt spiders are mostly gags or gimmicks, rather than an actual attempt to explore the complexity and specifics of what an alt reality would mean to "spider-man" as either a character or concept.

in a weird way, ben is one of the better alt reality explorations of a peter who lived a different life and made different choices, even though he's a 616 native.

and funnily enough, marvel's solution to finding a place for him in the current roster is to turn him into a gimmick (chasm), just like those alt spiders.

so maybe that just says more about the current creative state than anything else.

[Matt Rat]

The ending of the 2009 Clone Saga exiled Ben again, I remember Tom D said if sales were strong for that series, a Ben spin-off set in it's own universe, following him on the road, probably would have happened. Too bad that didn't happen. It's nice, though, to think that Ben's problems in 616 could have been best served a littlest Hobo premise.

Controversial hot take here, but I really think Janine probably should not have went to Jail at the end of Redemption, and instead should have went on the run again so Ben had a reason to venture off onto the road to find her.

[boots]

The ending of the 2009 Clone Saga exiled Ben again, I remember Tom D said if sales were strong for that series, a Ben spin-off set in it's own universe, following him on the road, probably would have happened. Too bad that didn't happen. It's nice, though, to think that Ben's problems in 616 could have been best served a littlest Hobo premise.

ooft. hard sell. whatever anyone thinks of defalco's execution on that mini aside, hoping the sales would be high on a story that is essentially just a condensed version (with a cleaner ending) of one most of the target audience already own or have read seems like a tall order.

i do get the warm and fuzzies thinking about how many staff were trying to champion it though.

Controversial hot take here, but I really think Janine probably should not have went to Jail at the end of Redemption, and instead should have went on the run again so Ben had a reason to venture off onto the road to find her.

as in, marvel would then possibly have chosen to send ben off to find janine rather than send ben off the side of a building?

[Matt Rat]

ooft. hard sell. whatever anyone thinks of defalco's execution on that mini aside, hoping the sales would be high on a story that is essentially just a condensed version (with a cleaner ending) of one most of the target audience already own or have read seems like a tall order.

'Condensed' as it was, it still does distinctly different things. I don't think fans of DeMatties or Harry in general were probably thrilled that even this story walks back on the events of Spetacular#200 and establishes Harry as a purely evil mastermind that is willing to kill a child to make Peter suffer.

Nevertheless, I still love the audacity of calling it the 'real' version of the saga in trade listings, given it concludes with a happy ending for Peter, MJ, Baby May, Aunt May, and Ben etc.

as in, marvel would then possibly have chosen to send ben off to find janine rather than send ben off the side of a building?

Generally, killing Ben was just to drive home the point Peter was the legitimate one, they weren't thinking 'beyond' that. With the benefit of hindsight, I could see Ben possibly being affected by the loss of Baby May, maybe blaming himself and needing time on the road to reflect or to give Peter and MJ space to mourn their loss.

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

'Condensed' as it was, it still does distinctly different things. I don't think fans of DeMatties or Harry in general were probably thrilled that even this story walks back on the events of Spetacular#200 and establishes Harry as a purely evil mastermind that is willing to kill a child to make Peter suffer.

I twas not.

Comics don't exist to tell stories, they exist to grow IPs to be used and the Spider-man crop is VERY bountiful so it becomes a cash crop.

I agree with this wholeheartedly and man, I really wish I didn't.

[boots]

Nevertheless, I still love the audacity of calling it the 'real' version of the saga in trade listings, given it concludes with a happy ending for Peter, MJ, Baby May, Aunt May, and Ben etc.

yeah, i think defalco's heart was in the right place and he could also be a cheeky bugger about it all too.

Generally, killing Ben was just to drive home the point Peter was the legitimate one, they weren't thinking 'beyond' that. With the benefit of hindsight, I could see Ben possibly being affected by the loss of Baby May, maybe blaming himself and needing time on the road to reflect or to give Peter and MJ space to mourn their loss.

right, in a "if we could go back and fix it kinda way". got it.

ben's death was the first time i really became aware of the heavy hand of editorial as a kid.