Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[JustLuke]

https://comicshenanigans.podbean.com...ith-zeb-wells/

Dark Web/Ben Reilly portion at 54:49. Here's some of the important bits of info for those who don't wish to listen to the whole thing:

-Wells says that Dark Web will be a more emotional story than we're all expecting, and that it also has a lot of nostalgia and fun character moments. He was particularly points out how Al Ewing and Ram V tie the Dark Web stuff into their Venom run.
-The biggest thing is Well confessing that it was actually his idea to explore Ben Reilly as Chasm. Yes, really. He states that he wanted to explore the idea of what Peter Parker would've been like without his sense of responsibility and as a villain.
-He says we all saw Ben become Chasm at the end of Beyond but we haven't seen why he's Chasm yet and that by Dark Web we'll understand why he's taking Ben in this direction. Mentions "honoring" the Ben Reilly character.
-He acknowledges that Chasm has been controversial to say the least and states that he understands why people are so upset. He says that one of the things he wanted to do with this was run on ASM was allow himself to piss people off (Hi Zeb, you succeeded.) and apologizes to Ben fans, albeit properly unlike Lowe, lmao.
-Everyone having their favorite characters and Ben having a rough-go since he's come back gets brought up, Zeb once again states he sympathizes with the fact that people wanted different stories for Ben, states that sometimes characters having a rough-go is just the story that character is telling.
-Zeb states that Ben can get his memories back and become a hero again and that he would never want to do anything permanent to any of these characters (and that he couldn't either, because another writer could always come and just do something else). Mentions that characters like Ben and Peter can't get "happy endings" in mainline comics because then their stories will be over, and their stories just aren't going to end. Bad things will always happen to them and while they will eventually emerge from that dark place (the chasm, if you will) and find happiness, it'll ultimately be taken away from them again. Oof.

While a lot of this is a bit frustrating to read, I do find myself having more hope that Ben will eventually get fixed, possibly before Wells' run ends.

(I edited this because I wanted to explain it more in depth as I don't feel I did a good enough job explaining what was stated before)

[JustLuke]

Anyways...have this extremely shitty and cursed edit of Chasm I made

[scarletspidey]

https://comicshenanigans.podbean.com...ith-zeb-wells/

Dark Web/Ben Reilly portion at 54:49. Here's some of the important bits of info for those who don't wish to listen to the whole thing:

-Wells says that Dark Web will be a more emotional story than we're all expecting, and that it also has a lot of nostalgia and fun character moments. He was particularly points out how Al Ewing and Ram V tie the Dark Web stuff into their Venom run.
-The biggest thing is Well confessing that it was actually his idea to explore Ben Reilly as Chasm. Yes, really. He states that he wanted to explore the idea of what Peter Parker would've been like without his sense of responsibility and as a villain.
-He says we all saw Ben become Chasm at the end of Beyond but we haven't seen why he's Chasm yet and that by Dark Web we'll understand why he's taking Ben in this direction. Mentions "honoring" the Ben Reilly character.
-He acknowledges that Chasm has been controversial to say the least and states that he understands why people are so upset. He says that one of the things he wanted to do with this was run on ASM was allow himself to piss people off (Hi Zeb, you succeeded.) and apologizes to Ben fans, albeit properly unlike Lowe, lmao.
-Everyone having their favorite characters and Ben having a rough-go since he's come back gets brought up, Zeb once again states he sympathizes with the fact that people wanted different stories for Ben, states that sometimes characters having a rough-go is just the story that character is telling.
-Zeb states that Ben can get his memories back and become a hero again and that he would never want to do anything permanent to any of these characters (and that he couldn't either, because another writer could always come and just do something else). Mentions that characters like Ben and Peter can't get "happy endings" in mainline comics because then their stories will be over, and their stories just aren't going to end. Bad things will always happen to them and while they will eventually emerge from that dark place (the chasm, if you will) and find happiness, it'll ultimately be taken away from them again. Oof.

While a lot of this is a bit frustrating to read, I do find myself having more hope that Ben will eventually get fixed, possibly before Wells' run ends.

(I edited this because I wanted to explain it more in depth as I don't feel I did a good enough job explaining what was stated before)

I wish someone would have just pointed out that it's really boring and lazy making him a villain, redeeming him off page then making him a villain after only having him back as a hero for 3 months... whats the point, for a big fall you need to build him up, having him fall then be good again with a 1 sentence explanation and evil again 5 mins later is pointless, stupid and lazy.
We don't want a happy ending for him, we want to see him face adversity and overcome it.

P.S you can have happy progression and a story, it's been happening in all mediums for hundreds of years - Wells comes off as uncreative and lazy here

[Sr. Bungle]

https://comicshenanigans.podbean.com...ith-zeb-wells/

Dark Web/Ben Reilly portion at 54:49. Here's some of the important bits of info for those who don't wish to listen to the whole thing:

-Wells says that Dark Web will be a more emotional story than we're all expecting, and that it also has a lot of nostalgia and fun character moments. He was particularly points out how Al Ewing and Ram V tie the Dark Web stuff into their Venom run.
-The biggest thing is Well confessing that it was actually his idea to explore Ben Reilly as Chasm. Yes, really. He states that he wanted to explore the idea of what Peter Parker would've been like without his sense of responsibility and as a villain.
-He says we all saw Ben become Chasm at the end of Beyond but we haven't seen why he's Chasm yet and that by Dark Web we'll understand why he's taking Ben in this direction. Mentions "honoring" the Ben Reilly character.
-He acknowledges that Chasm has been controversial to say the least and states that he understands why people are so upset. He says that one of the things he wanted to do with this was run on ASM was allow himself to piss people off (Hi Zeb, you succeeded.) and apologizes to Ben fans, albeit properly unlike Lowe, lmao.
-Everyone having their favorite characters and Ben having a rough-go since he's come back gets brought up, Zeb once again states he sympathizes with the fact that people wanted different stories for Ben, states that sometimes characters having a rough-go is just the story that character is telling.
-Zeb states that Ben can get his memories back and become a hero again and that he would never want to do anything permanent to any of these characters (and that he couldn't either, because another writer could always come and just do something else). Mentions that characters like Ben and Peter can't get "happy endings" in mainline comics because then their stories will be over, and their stories just aren't going to end. Bad things will always happen to them and while they will eventually emerge from that dark place (the chasm, if you will) and find happiness, it'll ultimately be taken away from them again. Oof.

While a lot of this is a bit frustrating to read, I do find myself having more hope that Ben will eventually get fixed, possibly before Wells' run ends.

(I edited this because I wanted to explain it more in depth as I don't feel I did a good enough job explaining what was stated before)

Thanks for the recap!! I have a theory that Wells pitched the idea of exploring the "Peter sans responsibility" but with Peter himself and Lowe suggested Ben instead.

[Sr. Bungle]

Anyways...have this extremely shitty and cursed edit of Chasm I made

Thanks!! I hate it :P

[Celgress]

I wish someone would have just pointed out that it's really boring and lazy making him a villain, redeeming him off page then making him a villain after only having him back as a hero for 3 months... whats the point, for a big fall you need to build him up, having him fall then be good again with a 1 sentence explanation and evil again 5 mins later is pointless, stupid and lazy.
We don't want a happy ending for him, we want to see him face adversity and overcome it.

P.S you can have happy progression and a story, it's been happening in all mediums for hundreds of years - Wells comes off as uncreative and lazy here

Indeed it is lazy and predictable. From OG Venom, OG Kaine, and Superior Spider-Man we've seen so many "evil Spideys" that it is a trope at this point....

[Sr. Bungle]

I wish someone would have just pointed out that it's really boring and lazy making him a villain, redeeming him off page then making him a villain after only having him back as a hero for 3 months... whats the point, for a big fall you need to build him up, having him fall then be good again with a 1 sentence explanation and evil again 5 mins later is pointless, stupid and lazy.
We don't want a happy ending for him, we want to see him face adversity and overcome it.

P.S you can have happy progression and a story, it's been happening in all mediums for hundreds of years - Wells comes off as uncreative and lazy here

Wells says that this time he DID IT BETTER than before

[Huntsman Spider]

Anyways...have this extremely shitty and cursed edit of Chasm I made

It's not nearly as s****y as you think it is. Also, thanks for recapping, and while I also have a faint sense of hope left for Ben as a character, I'm still going in with my eyes wide open on this.

Thanks!! I hate it :P

An understandable stance.

Wells says that this time he DID IT BETTER than before

That's what they all say, and most of them are horribly wrong and just full of themselves.

[Sr. Bungle]

While a lot of this is a bit frustrating to read, I do find myself having more hope that Ben will eventually get fixed, possibly before Wells' run ends.

Idk man, it sounded that he was trying to downplay the controversy by stating he left a backdoor for subsequent writers to use if they feel like they want Ben back to normal again. Not him, but someone else down the road.

[Kurolegacy]

Idk man, it sounded that he was trying to downplay the controversy by stating he left a backdoor for subsequent writers to use if they feel like they want Ben back to normal again. Not him, but someone else down the road.

And even if he was talking about himself, given Marvel’s track record with the character, I’ll say that I’ll believe it when I see it and even then be skeptical that it won’t last and the writers will do something else stupid with him.

[scarletspidey]

Thanks for the recap!! I have a theory that Wells pitched the idea of exploring the "Peter sans responsibility" but with Peter himself and Lowe suggested Ben instead.

I think you're right, I also think that it would have been better

Wells says that this time he DID IT BETTER than before

still makes fixing him off panel only to make him bad again immediately utterly pointless

[Drako]

Anyways...have this extremely shitty and cursed edit of Chasm I made

This design sucks and being drawn by Romita Jr doesn't help. The logo looks more like a centipede than a spider.

[Sr. Bungle]

This design sucks and being drawn by Romita Jr doesn't help. The logo looks more like a centipede than a spider.

Also, being Chasm flattened his fingers somehow.

[Huntsman Spider]

Indeed it is lazy and predictable. From OG Venom, OG Kaine, and Superior Spider-Man we've seen so many "evil Spideys" that it is a trope at this point....

"Evil/dark version of a superhero" is a trope because, at least in theory, it enables the writer to explore what could happen if the superhero's powers were replicated inside someone who would use them for more selfish or self-serving reasons, or resort to more "extreme" methods in enacting justice and fighting evil. To add to the list of "evil Spider-Men," Blood Spider was a thing, however briefly, back in the 90s (before the Clone Saga, mind you) and was dusted off for the prequel novel to Insomniac Games' Spider-Man on PS4/5 called Hostile Takeover, where he was a sadistic, sociopathic killer who nearly ruined Spider-Man's reputation after being subjected to Norman Osborn's clandestine attempts to duplicate Spider-Man's powers.

[Sr. Bungle]

"Evil/dark version of a superhero" is a trope because, at least in theory, it enables the writer to explore what could happen if the superhero's powers were replicated inside someone who would use them for more selfish or self-serving reasons, or resort to more "extreme" methods in enacting justice and fighting evil. To add to the list of "evil Spider-Men," Blood Spider was a thing, however briefly, back in the 90s (before the Clone Saga, mind you) and was dusted off for the prequel novel to Insomniac Games' Spider-Man on PS4/5 called Hostile Takeover, where he was a sadistic, sociopathic killer who nearly ruined Spider-Man's reputation after being subjected to Norman Osborn's clandestine attempts to duplicate Spider-Man's powers.

The original Blood Spider was just killed in the Venom Lethal protector new mini