Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[JustLuke]

Here is hoping that when Spider-verse drops, whatever story arch that they have planned with “Chasm” and “Dark Web” is quickly finished and done so we can get Ben back in the scarlet colored saddle.

I doubt Wells will return Ben to the Scarlet Spider identity, but somebody probably will by the time the movie comes out.

Yeah, he invested a lot on Chasm. Reversing it so soon would be like a recognition of defeat.

Remember how in Spider-Geddon they killed off Noir and then pretty much immediately brought him back after Into the Spider-Verse came out? Yeah, there's no way something similar doesn't happen to Ben imo. He'll be fixed. Marvel loves their corporate synergy, even if they often suck at it.

The problem is, what will they do with him? In the couple years between Spidergeddon and Beyond, Marvel had no idea what to do with Ben. He had some random guest appearances in Iron-Man and Conan… which was fine (well, the IM one at least) but nothing special or interesting to say about the character. I want him to have his own ongoing again (with the REAL Ben, not some crappy edgelord version of him like the PAD run) but I don’t think Marvel is confident that it would sell enough to make a profit. And sadly, they’re probably right.

I get that, but they don't have to give him an ongoing I feel, he could just appear in more mini-series written by JMD. But it's not like Ben's solo title did horribly either, it lasted as long as Kaine's did despite (admittedly) being far worse, and it lasted longer than Superior Spider-Man Volume 2 and both of Spider-Gwen's last two ongoing titles. Maybe Spider-Verse will be what Ben needs to find more of an audience. Not holding my breath on that, but you never know, really.

EDIT: I also find it likely that when they do fix Ben, they'll end up making him closer to his incarnation in Across the Spider-Verse, again like what happened to Noir. I haven't read that last mini in a while but it did feel more similar to his character in Into the Spider-Verse.

[Sr. Bungle]

Remember how in Spider-Geddon they killed off Noir and then pretty much immediately brought him back after Into the Spider-Verse came out? Yeah, there's no way something similar doesn't happen to Ben imo. He'll be fixed. Marvel loves their corporate synergy, even if they often suck at it.


I get that, but they don't have to give him an ongoing I feel, he could just appear in more mini-series written by JMD. But it's not like Ben's solo title did horribly either, it lasted as long as Kaine's did despite (admittedly) being far worse, and it lasted longer than Superior Spider-Man Volume 2 and both of Spider-Gwen's last two ongoing titles. Maybe Spider-Verse will be what Ben needs to find more of an audience. Not holding my breath on that, but you never know, really.

EDIT: I also find it likely that when they do fix Ben, they'll end up making him closer to his incarnation in Across the Spider-Verse, again like what happened to Noir. I haven't read that last mini in a while but it did feel more similar to his character in Into the Spider-Verse.

One would think that fixing Ben after Spiderverse hits is a given but I don't want to get my hopes crushed again by Marvel and their stubbornness.

[JustLuke]

One would think that fixing Ben after Spiderverse hits is a given but I don't want to get my hopes crushed again by Marvel and their stubbornness again.

Yeah that's fair, I still think it's likely to happen though.

[Sr. Bungle]

Yeah that's fair, I still think it's likely to happen though.

I guess it depends of how Ben is portrayed in the movie. Just imagine if they kill Ben in it.

[JustLuke]

I guess it depends of how Ben is portrayed in the movie. Just imagine if they kill Ben in it.

I have faith that that won't happen (I trust the Spider-Verse crew far more than I trust Marvel Editorial lol), but if it does...oof. Just...oof.

[Refrax5]

I guess it depends of how Ben is portrayed in the movie. Just imagine if they kill Ben in it.

That occurred to me, but the first movie treated all of the spiders pretty lovingly, so hopefully not.

[Sr. Bungle]

That occurred to me, but the first movie treated all of the spiders pretty lovingly, so hopefully not.

But they killed one of them for drama

[JustLuke]

But they killed one of them for drama

The entire reason Miles became Spider-Man originally was because the Peter Parker from his universe died, if RIPeter lived (that's what the films artists call him lol) you would lose Miles' whole motivation to become Spider-Man lol.

And besides we still had a Peter Parker anyways with Peter B. Parker so it kinda evens out I think

[Refrax5]

But they killed one of them for drama

You mean the Chris Pine version? That wasn't for drama. The whole plot pretty much hinges on his death. The rest of the movie doesn't happen if he lives. I mean, that was a sad moment, but necessary. And even so, he was handled very respectfully.

[Sr. Bungle]

Don't wanna be a downer, after all I posted the news here. Is just that Marvel has made me a liitle cynical with their constant trashing of Ben.

[Lukmendes]

Honestly the worst that's happened to Ben as a character was having his bond with Peter forgotten. To be fair Beyond kinda hinted at it during the setup but it didn't last.

The setup is what had him reacting with annoyance at Ben to begin with, which, could work fine if they talked about how the last time Ben showed up he tried to kill the planet and replace everyone with clones, but, that isn't mentioned, and it makes Spidey and MJ reacting with annoyance weird.

Even worse for MJ, considering she didn't see Ben doing the Clone Conspiracy nonsense, so she has less reasons to be as venomous about him for existing even if she does know about it, she talks like he was only ever a bad thing, when Ben was less of a douche than her husband during clone saga.

Yeah, nothing bad happens to Peter and/or MJ when Ben is not around.

Clearly, OMD happened and Ben isn't around, and we all know it's the best thing that ever happened with Spidey, just ask Quesada.

The only reason Ultimate Reed Richards becoming the Maker worked at all, I would think, was that it simply acknowledged that without the sympathetic viewpoint so often cast on Reed, even at his most morally ambiguous, it would be very easy to make him out to be a villain.

I mean, Ultimate Reed did have that, and despite living in Ultimate Universe, his earlier stories seemed like he was more at least more social than 616 Reed, maybe more friendly too but I haven't read enough to confirm.

I don't know exactly how or why he became evil, nor do I know what his characterization was like a while before it happened, all that I know that it's liked, and probably the only time such a change was accepted (I remember hearing that Bendis was hinting that he's not evil, which annoyed fans as they liked him more being evil).

Also, the Fantastic Four in Ultimate didn't have as strong a familial bond as the 616 versions did, so without that to keep Reed in check and remind him of who he could hurt if he went too far, it was relatively easy for him to spiral into villainy, especially given his ever-increasing frustration at being held back from "improving the world" by the powers that be that preferred the status quo that kept them rich and powerful. Furthermore, his father was an overgrown jock stereotype who belittled and abused him for his intelligence, not that it justified Reed killing his whole family and becoming a megalomaniacal POS, though it did demonstrate that if 616 Reed didn't have the same emotional bonds with the rest of the Fantastic Four that he had, he could very well turn out no better than his erstwhile best friend-cum-archenemy Victor Von Doom.

It can still look jarring depending on how it was done, what I remember of him was being nice and heroic in earlier issues, and whenever I see him as Maker he's a cartoonish evil scientist villain, if he suddenly changed from one to the other then it's pretty bad, even if it's liked lol.

It's even funnier when you consider this little detail:
Attachment 123734
If this is what they meant by "mixed reaction" then that's uh, certainly an interesting definition of "mixed" ��

LOL

I think what they meant by "mixed reaction" is that there were a lot of different ways the audience booed .

https://comicshenanigans.podbean.com...ith-zeb-wells/

Dark Web/Ben Reilly portion at 54:49. Here's some of the important bits of info for those who don't wish to listen to the whole thing:

-Wells says that Dark Web will be a more emotional story than we're all expecting, and that it also has a lot of nostalgia and fun character moments.

Like when he used direct scenes from Clone Saga during Beyond and intentionally misinterpreted 'em? That kind of nostalgia?

-The biggest thing is Well confessing that it was actually his idea to explore Ben Reilly as Chasm. Yes, really.

Edgelord writer made a character become an edgelord, shocking.

He states that he wanted to explore the idea of what Peter Parker would've been like without his sense of responsibility and as a villain.

So what Kaine used to be? Or early Spidercide? Or fucking Venom?

-He says we all saw Ben become Chasm at the end of Beyond but we haven't seen why he's Chasm yet and that by Dark Web we'll understand why he's taking Ben in this direction. Mentions "honoring" the Ben Reilly character.

Ain't mystery boxes fun?

Also in Beyond itself we already saw Ben becoming increasingly unhinged, violent and unlikable, that was because of his memory loss that he desperately wanted back, I don't see how another explanation would really help considering what Wells already did.

-He acknowledges that Chasm has been controversial to say the least and states that he understands why people are so upset. He says that one of the things he wanted to do with this was run on ASM was allow himself to piss people off (Hi Zeb, you succeeded.) and apologizes to Ben fans, albeit properly unlike Lowe, lmao.

Why's that even allowed? Why's such a douche mentality allowed?

Like I can understand making fans suffer because a character is going through shit, and maybe even do questionable actions, but Ben's case is just bad writing, for the sake of pissing off fans? Grow up, this isn't a fucking fanfiction, or at least it shouldn't be.

-Everyone having their favorite characters and Ben having a rough-go since he's come back gets brought up, Zeb once again states he sympathizes with the fact that people wanted different stories for Ben, states that sometimes characters having a rough-go is just the story that character is telling.

Problem is how little that has to do with Ben.

-Zeb states that Ben can get his memories back and become a hero again and that he would never want to do anything permanent to any of these characters (and that he couldn't either, because another writer could always come and just do something else). Mentions that characters like Ben and Peter can't get "happy endings" in mainline comics because then their stories will be over, and their stories just aren't going to end. Bad things will always happen to them and while they will eventually emerge from that dark place (the chasm, if you will) and find happiness, it'll ultimately be taken away from them again. Oof.

While a lot of this is a bit frustrating to read, I do find myself having more hope that Ben will eventually get fixed, possibly before Wells' run ends.

The problem isn't just the happy ending being taken from them, it's how it's done.

OMD, it's hated, not just because it took away Spidey's marriage with MJ, but because of how disgustingly out of character it was for it to happen to begin with.

Beyond does the same nonsense with Ben.

It's not just about taking away a character's happiness, it's also about how they act while it's happening, and garbage writing like OMD and Beyond are stuff that shouldn't be allowed because of bad writing, fuck lol.

Anyways...have this extremely shitty and cursed edit of Chasm I made :P

No offense, and this is gonna sound offensive, but, this is bad enough that I wish Chasm was wearing it so the costume kinda represents how bad his personality is now .

What’s even more stupid is that they have this mentality while plenty of other characters are allowed these life changes. It isn’t the end of their story, it adds more layers to it that in turn enhances the character. Anyone who says that that’s the end of the story is either lying or creatively bankrupt.

Specially considering Spidey got married to begin with lol.

In romance, for inexplicable reasons, marriage is generally seen as the end, but comic books keep going, so Spidey getting married with MJ kept going, and they both kept developing as the story continued.

So adding something like marriage only adds more stuff for the character to develop, it's not the end until the comics get cancelled.

I guess it depends of how Ben is portrayed in the movie. Just imagine if they kill Ben in it.

That sounds unlikely, the only Spider killed in the first movie was Blonde Peter, and that was a way to adapt Miles' origin, what would a Ben be killed for?

It is possible that the movie has a different director who would take such a direction though, or maybe same director who hates Ben, but again, sounds unlikely.

The entire reason Miles became Spider-Man originally was because the Peter Parker from his universe died, if RIPeter lived (that's what the films artists call him lol) you would lose Miles' whole motivation to become Spider-Man lol.

And besides we still had a Peter Parker anyways with Peter B. Parker so it kinda evens out I think

RIPeter, hah, that's perfect lol.

Don't wanna be a downer, after all I posted the news here. Is just that Marvel has made me a liitle cynical with their constant trashing of Ben.

Understandable man, I'm generally a downer in MJ's thread whenever I say that marriage is unlikely going to return, or when I say that Wells won't be treating MJ well, and I'm like this because I noticed the patterns and I'm not wasting my time with hope when they literally give me no reason to do so.

[ZeroBG82]

I guess it depends of how Ben is portrayed in the movie. Just imagine if they kill Ben in it.

Depends entirely on the manner in which it happens, should that be the route they go. If he's killed off as a joke, or like a chump? Sure, we riot. But if he gets to go out with a BIG DAMN HERO moment? I could live with that. I HAD to live with that for what, 20 years after Revelations? There are worse endings than dying a hero.

Like Chasm, for example.

[Captain Craig]

There are worse endings than dying a hero.

True. However, after 22 years dead and Wally West had perfected the heroes journey from sidekick to esteemed and respected Flash the DC suits of the time still thought NOW is the time to bring back Barry Allen.

[Huntsman Spider]

True. However, after 22 years dead and Wally West had perfected the heroes journey from sidekick to esteemed and respected Flash the DC suits of the time still thought NOW is the time to bring back Barry Allen.

And then they f***ed up with Wally by erasing him from existence entirely in the New 52, then trying to reinvent his origin story during the New 52 in a way that made that version of him come off utterly unlikable. Then DC Rebirth came along, brought back Wally proper, made new Wally more likable or palatable as a character, and things seemed to be going on a good track for both of them for a while. Of course, DC royally lost the plot again and went back to grimdark B.S. that wrecked original Wally's character by making him an accidental murderer who tried to cover it up by framing Booster Gold and Harley Quinn to distract the other heroes while he tried (and failed) to fix what he'd done, leaving him utterly disgraced and apparently responsible for one of his oldest friends being dead. Granted, after some (more) missteps, Infinite Frontier finally fixed the damage done to original Wally by making him the Flash again, revealing that his archenemy from the Mark Waid run, Savitar, had been the cause of the Speed Force surge seemingly unleashed by Wally, trying to hijack the Speed Force to turn himself into a literal god of speed/motion like his namesake from Indian myth and lore, and even reuniting him with his wife Linda and his twin children Jai and Iris/Irey. Hoping it sticks this time . . .

[Refrax5]

Don't wanna be a downer, after all I posted the news here. Is just that Marvel has made me a liitle cynical with their constant trashing of Ben.

Nah, I understand. There's a part of me thats afraid they're going to make him into a joke type character or kill him off, too. But generally the movie guys seem to have more sense than that with that kind of thing. I look at NWH and how respectfully they treated each of the Spideys and made them all look good. If it was the comics guys, they'd have killed one and turned another one into a villain or something ridiculous.