Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[Xwho]

Because Ben was blonde, named “Ben” and worked at a coffee shop with new supporting characters that readers weren’t familiar with (I love Shirley, but she’s not a substitute for JJJ). Ben Reilly, the OG version anyway, is a great character and it was a daring experiment to have him take over as Spidey for a year. But it was never going to last because they were replacing too many elements of what Spidey fans expected.

OMD/BND, otoh, only stripped one element… his marriage to MJ. It was a relatively recent one (if you can believe it, 75% of the time they were married has already elapsed since BND started… marriage 1987-2007 (20 years), post-OMD status 2007-2022 (15 years)… crazy how time flies, huh?) and in the minds of some writers and readers one that had altered too much of the character and had to go. Obviously, I disagree with that assertion. But to them, Peter being single again represents a “back to basics” return for the traditional character… one who is single again but is still named Peter and interacts with the Daily Bugle supporting cast. And the fact it was all done through a deal with the Devil is pretty much ignored by anyone not named Nick Spencer or Joe Kelly. So they keep trucking on and each year BND/OND fades more in the rear view mirror.

Finally, Ben as Spidey was never given enough of a chance to settle in; they were plotting his departure pretty much from the moment he took over. No one was that enthusiastic about him remaining as Spidey. Otoh Joe Quesada, then-publisher of Marvel and until recently the most influential person at the company not named “Stan Lee”, had made it his personal mission to break up Peter and MJ… consequences be damned. He’s been a consistent cheerleader and enforcer of the BND/OMD status even while most of fandom has turned against it.

And could it have worked if Ben had become Peter Parker as well as spider man ? Please reply.

[HypnoHustler]

And could it have worked if Ben had become Peter Parker as well as spider man ? Please reply.

Yes, I think it would have … but it didn’t make sense from a storytelling perspective (Ben would have to basically steal Peter’s identity, and I can’t see OG Ben doing that). The only way it would work is similar to what was depicted in a ‘What If’ issue at the time… if Peter died in action and Ben felt obligated to take over his life for whatever reason.

[Xwho]

Yes, I think it would have … but it didn’t make sense from a storytelling perspective (Ben would have to basically steal Peter’s identity, and I can’t see OG Ben doing that). The only way it would work is similar to what was depicted in a ‘What If’ issue at the time… if Peter died in action and Ben felt obligated to take over his life for whatever reason.

What does everyone else think about if it would work for the people at marvel if Ben did become Parker again ? Please reply.

[Lukmendes]

Not really, there was a downward trend for all the comics industry after the speculator bubble busted. Sales were down, true. But it was all across the board. Ans Spider-Man was one of the comics that better fared during that time.

Yeah, and it was because of the mystery of who's the real deal and whatnot, and once Spidey turned out to not be the real one readers started to read, as far as I heard at least, and considering how awkwardly it was all changed back, I can see that being the case, or maybe Marvel just thought it was.

I don't think that it would have worked but, DC got a lot a new characters out of Reign of Supermen. Harras instead decided to kill Ben instead of sending him off as the Scarlet Spider. Even Azrael is still alive and kicking.

Azrael was in limbo for so damn long though lol.

At very least they were kind enough to give me warning of their intentions with this story so I can save my money for a couple of months. It’ll be like the inverse of Superior. There I only bought the arcs that guest starred Miguel and Flash and Gonlin Nation. With this run, I’m sitting out any arc featuring this Chasm bullshit because I refuse to give money to it.

Good, that's how more people should do, vote with your wallet and all lol.

He even stole the old Ben unshaved long-haired look. I like Kaine, but he's getting a free pass from murdering people and torturing Ben for years. Kain trying t help would make a lot sense.

To be fair, he at least went to jail for that for reak life years, and he did stuff to try to redeem himself, and his Scarlet Spider run made it clear he felt like garbage anyways for a while.

Maybe you can say that's not enough, but at least there's an attempt, meanwhile, Ben after Clone Conspiracy is like "hey guys I'm good again, and I'm not showing any regret for what I did back in Clone Conspiracy, and I'm Spider-Man now" lol.

Fans hated one more day and spider man is still going on without it being undone then why could it not go on if Ben Reilly was the original even if he became Peter Parker again ?

Man I already told you that just because ASM survived this garbage that it shouldn't be tested to survive more garbage lol.

Problem with both Ben being the real Peter and OMD is toxic nostalgia and trying to get rid of a character's story for a long time, in a way Ben is even worse because nothing after ASM#149 would matter that much because some impostor would have lived all of that lol.

[HypnoHustler]

What does everyone else think about if it would work for the people at marvel if Ben did become Parker again ? Please reply.

Ben was never “Parker” though. He never claimed the Peter Parker identity (except for maybe that first fight in Shea Stadium in ASM#149, but we can hardly count that). He did become Spider-Man again for the Beyond event last year, but that was more to set him up as Chasm and kill time until Wells could start writing ASM full-time.

[Xwho]

Ben was never “Parker” though. He never claimed the Peter Parker identity (except for maybe that first fight in Shea Stadium in ASM#149, but we can hardly count that). He did become Spider-Man again for the Beyond event last year, but that was more to set him up as Chasm and kill time until Wells could start writing ASM full-time.

I said if.
If it had maybe even if fans did not like it still would gone on like with one more day which would there would not have happened and one less story that fans did not like.
And maybe there would be no sins rising with Norman staying dead.
Zeb said about the characters story's having not having happy endings because they keep going on or something.
Clone Peter, or whatever he could be called, could be still brought back at somepoint with Mary Jane, maybe as the new Scarlet Spider.
They could have called ASM 149 the beginning of the clone years.

[Refrax5]

Yeah, and it was because of the mystery of who's the real deal and whatnot, and once Spidey turned out to not be the real one readers started to read, as far as I heard at least, and considering how awkwardly it was all changed back, I can see that being the case, or maybe Marvel just thought it was.



Azrael was in limbo for so damn long though lol.



Good, that's how more people should do, vote with your wallet and all lol.



To be fair, he at least went to jail for that for reak life years, and he did stuff to try to redeem himself, and his Scarlet Spider run made it clear he felt like garbage anyways for a while.

Maybe you can say that's not enough, but at least there's an attempt, meanwhile, Ben after Clone Conspiracy is like "hey guys I'm good again, and I'm not showing any regret for what I did back in Clone Conspiracy, and I'm Spider-Man now" lol.



Man I already told you that just because ASM survived this garbage that it shouldn't be tested to survive more garbage lol.

Problem with both Ben being the real Peter and OMD is toxic nostalgia and trying to get rid of a character's story for a long time, in a way Ben is even worse because nothing after ASM#149 would matter that much because some impostor would have lived all of that lol.

That's not exactly what happened with Ben. He spent most of his solo series trying to become a better person and very clearly expressed remorse before he willingly sacrificed himself to save everyone in Spider-Geddon. As for him being Spider-Man again, he was working with Beyond, who claimed to be helping rehabilitate criminals AND they erased his memories of being the Jackal because he couldn't handle what he had done. So it's not fair to act like he didn't show remorse or try to make amends.

[HypnoHustler]

I said if.

But you also said “again” which would imply there was a first time he became Parker.

Anyway, I don’t see them trying that. Too much time has passed and it wouldn’t make much sense now.

[Xwho]

But you also said “again” which would imply there was a first time he became Parker.

Anyway, I don’t see them trying that. Too much time has passed and it wouldn’t make much sense now.

What are the chances of the them doing a alternate universe series of Ben being the original and how things could have gone differently in the marvel universe like not Norman not coming back like renew your vows spider girl and spider gwen be it a mini series or ongoing ?
Would everyone one please say what they think ?
I meant "again"because if he was the original he would become Peter again and I did not mean about them doing now in the main universe.

[Lukmendes]

That's not exactly what happened with Ben. He spent most of his solo series trying to become a better person and very clearly expressed remorse before he willingly sacrificed himself to save everyone in Spider-Geddon. As for him being Spider-Man again, he was working with Beyond, who claimed to be helping rehabilitate criminals AND they erased his memories of being the Jackal because he couldn't handle what he had done. So it's not fair to act like he didn't show remorse or try to make amends.

Hm... Yeah you're right, I was thinking more about that first issue from Beyond (Where Ben was being an ass and really didn't leave a good impression) and I forgot the rest 'cause Beyond is boring as fuck lol.

What are the chances of the them doing a alternate universe series of Ben being the original and how things could have gone differently in the marvel universe like not Norman not coming back like renew your vows spider girl and spider gwen be it a mini series or ongoing ?
Would everyone one please say what they think ?
I meant "again"because if he was the original he would become Peter again and I did not mean about them doing now in the main universe.

An universe like that would need more than just this to stand out and last.

The biggest examples of universes that lasted a long time at Marvel are MC2 and Ultimate, both are pretty different from the usual 616, while Spider-Ben is just a variant of 616, with the biggest appeal is it having Ben as the main character, but not being 616 generally leads to less sales.

Also isn't there an universe out there where Ben remained as Spider-Man while Spidey was depowered?

[HypnoHustler]

Hm... Yeah you're right, I was thinking more about that first issue from Beyond (Where Ben was being an ass and really didn't leave a good impression) and I forgot the rest 'cause Beyond is boring as fuck lol.



An universe like that would need more than just this to stand out and last.

The biggest examples of universes that lasted a long time at Marvel are MC2 and Ultimate, both are pretty different from the usual 616, while Spider-Ben is just a variant of 616, with the biggest appeal is it having Ben as the main character, but not being 616 generally leads to less sales.

Also isn't there an universe out there where Ben remained as Spider-Man while Spidey was depowered?

Yes, the one depicted during the 2014 Spiderverse mini. He done got blowed up good in the end, tho.

[boots]

Good interview. Thanks for sharing. Howard and Terry both get a lot of crap for their stories, but I think both have turned out solid stuff (while conceding they’ve also produced some really bad issues). And they seem like they’re having a ton of fun in this interview.

yeah, i got a kick out of it. also went back and read a bunch of defalco interviews to see if he had a different perspective. couldn't find anything directly covering sales of ben as spidey.

[boots]

What does everyone else think about if it would work for the people at marvel if Ben did become Parker again ? Please reply.

i *think* you mean if ben were revealed to be the "one true" again?

i really think the time for that idea is gone. if they had a chance to make it work (for however long) it was in the 90s when ben had momentum

as to whether it could've worked at the time? i think best case scenario would've been a kyle rayner type situation, because we all know, peter parker would've returned to the mantle at some point. mackie's belief that ben could have been moved to take over two spidey satellite titles at the time might have some merit.

it's all impossible to know.

[boots]

An universe like that would need more than just this to stand out and last.

The biggest examples of universes that lasted a long time at Marvel are MC2 and Ultimate, both are pretty different from the usual 616, while Spider-Ben is just a variant of 616, with the biggest appeal is it having Ben as the main character, but not being 616 generally leads to less sales.

Also isn't there an universe out there where Ben remained as Spider-Man while Spidey was depowered?

i think renew your vows is a good example of that: the variation or twist on 616 is probably not enough to sustain beyond a mini. even hugely popular alt universes like age of apoc would struggle beyond that, imo.

What are the chances of the them doing a alternate universe series of Ben being the original and how things could have gone differently in the marvel universe like not Norman not coming back like renew your vows spider girl and spider gwen be it a mini series or ongoing ?
Would everyone one please say what they think ?
I meant "again"because if he was the original he would become Peter again and I did not mean about them doing now in the main universe.

earth '94 ben was essentially a universe where revelations never happened, with that ben more or less living out 616 peter's life with the same adventures. this ben though believes he's the clone, so there's some untold story there.

earth 91101 ben lived through revelations as well, but returned the webs to peter and went back on the road. the two of them decided it didn't matter who was the clone and left it ultimately unanswered (which i like best), so this might another case of ben not being the clone.

earth 199606 ben thinks he's the clone, but there's the implication that he's not.


for a real head fuck, essentially you could have a 50/50 split amongst universes where the guy who went on the road was either the clone or the OG, with either the OG or clone staying in peter's life...and the story would play out almost exactly the same until they get around to doing the tests during the clone saga. so in some universes ben would be the clone, in other's ben is the real deal.

[Lukmendes]

Yes, the one depicted during the 2014 Spiderverse mini. He done got blowed up good in the end, tho.

Ah, I should've expected that lol.

It's pretty amazing Spider-Betty of all people survived that nonsense.

i think renew your vows is a good example of that: the variation or twist on 616 is probably not enough to sustain beyond a mini. even hugely popular alt universes like age of apoc would struggle beyond that, imo.

Yeah it's complicated to make alternature universes work, the biggest thing is that they can't be redundant.

Ultimate Spidey benefit the best because while Ultimate Spidey was a teenager learning about life, 616 Spidey was married and acting more mature, the basics were different and so were their characterization.

RYV did have a decent enough setting when it comes to difference though, problem is, the writing quality quickly dropped, and once Annie was aged up she was practically the protagonist, making her into a more boring Mayday.

earth '94 benearth 91101 ben lived through revelations as well, but returned the webs to peter and went back on the road. the two of them decided it didn't matter who was the clone and left it ultimately unanswered (which i like best), so this might another case of ben not being the clone.

Why does this Ben wear a tank top instead of a hoodie?

for a real head fuck, essentially you could have a 50/50 split amongst universes where the guy who went on the road was either the clone or the OG, with either the OG or clone staying in peter's life...and the story would play out almost exactly the same until they get around to doing the tests during the clone saga. so in some universes ben would be the clone, in other's ben is the real deal.

Honestly I don't like the implication that Spidey and Ben are this identical lol.

In the original clone saga, the reason Spidey knew he wasn't the clone was because he realized that he grew as a person, moved on and found a new love in MJ, while a clone would still be stuck in the past because of Jackal's influence, this means that ultimately, him and the clone were different people, so them living each other's lives and having the exact same result is, really boring.