Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[Jman27]

SO he's a Venom\Carnage hybrid. Real original. LAAAAAAAAMMMMMME

spider-sense attack is new however dont think anyone has that

[Sr. Bungle]

spider-sense attack is new however dont think anyone has that

Is there some semblance of a conscience for Ben or he's downright evil?

[Jman27]

Is there some semblance of a conscience for Ben or he's downright evil?

evil for sure. Still believes Peter is the cause for all his problems

[Mercwmouth12]

evil for sure. Still believes Peter is the cause for all his problems

He sounded Dick Dastardly. He sounded way off and could feel the cringe

[Baron of Faltine]

He sounded Dick Dastardly. He sounded way off and could feel the cringe

I like to think, more a feeble hope really, that is on purpose, that he kind do not know how to be a villain and try to make up a persona based on the few tidbits of memories he still has.

<on side note coll avatar pic Mercwmouth12, guyver fans are so rare these times....>

[Mercwmouth12]

I like to think, more a feeble hope really, that is on purpose, that he kind do not know how to be a villain and try to make up a persona based on the few tidbits of memories he still has.

<on side note coll avatar pic Mercwmouth12, guyver fans are so rare these times....>

The Guyver needs a comeback. The over story and premise it outstanding

[Spidey-Ben]

The Guyver needs a comeback. The over story and premise it outstanding

It’s a shame too, because the manga has been on hiatus for the last couple years.

[Refrax5]

A bit of a retrospective on Sensational SM#8 (Looter issue) and the Dezago/Wieringo run in general.

https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-ben-r...ective-marvel/

That was a great issue.

[Refrax5]

No it wouldn’t. As bad as PAD’s Scarlet Spider was, Ben’s mindset in it had been that while he had done terrible things as the Jackel, he still wanted to be a hero and earn his redemption and cleanse his soul. Ben may have made mistakes during that run as a result of his soul being damaged from dying so many times but there wasn’t anything in that run that was so Earth shatteringly bad that he’d rather wipe his memory than face it. Hell, assuming that the ending was still in line with Spider-Geddon’s continuity, even in spite of that, Ben still had enough of his core left that he willingly sacrificed himself to help bring down the Inheritors and was restored using their technology, setting him back to normal. At this point, you’re just justifying bad writing, something no one should do.


At least with Slott’s version he had good intentions even if he went about it wrong due to the damage done to his soul. In this case, he literally unleashed Hell on Earth and has set out to hurt innocent people who have nothing to do with anything that’s happened to him all because of a perceived notion that Peter stole his memories when he has now been shown to be an unreliable narrator.

You're forgetting that even in that series, Ben still didn't really have much of a conscience despite seeking redemption. His soul was healing very slowly and he was still acting pretty sociopathic most of the time. He had that scarring on his face because he still was somewhat corrupt. Death literally tells him he's evil when his scars come back. He made a deal with Mephisto to betray the Midnight Sons. He backed out on it at the last second, but the entire series keeps telling you that his soul is still corrupted because Death said it would take a long time to heal.

He didn't go back to normal until the end of Spider-Geddon and we've barely seen him after that until he showed up in Beyond. You're ignoring what the actual comics said just to be mad and argue these pedantic details.

[Celgress]

That's what you just said is what an anti-hero basically is and describes what Red Hood was in large part in his early days, many are being melodramatic believing that Ben being a villain for the second time will last a lifetime when the reality is that it's just a bad phase of the character that won't last too long, at most all the crap about Ben being a villain will last just one more year and that's it, you also don't have to be so negative and exaggerate things with something that's temporary.

No, my version would be more anti-villain than anti-hero - Anti-Villian " a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable. Alternatively, their goals may be selfish or have long-term consequences they don't care about, but they're good people who might even team up with the hero if their goals don't conflict." It would be made clear in the story Ben is actually a villain who doesn't know or care he is a villain and should not be admired despite his "noble" goals thus he would not be an anti-hero.

[xpyred]

No, my version would be more anti-villain than anti-hero - Anti-Villian " a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable. Alternatively, their goals may be selfish or have long-term consequences they don't care about, but they're good people who might even team up with the hero if their goals don't conflict." It would be made clear in the story Ben is actually a villain who doesn't know or care he is a villain and should not be admired despite his "noble" goals thus he would not be an anti-hero.

Like Kaine during the Clone Saga before Maximum Clonage?

[Kurolegacy]

You're forgetting that even in that series, Ben still didn't really have much of a conscience despite seeking redemption. His soul was healing very slowly and he was still acting pretty sociopathic most of the time. He had that scarring on his face because he still was somewhat corrupt. Death literally tells him he's evil when his scars come back. He made a deal with Mephisto to betray the Midnight Sons. He backed out on it at the last second, but the entire series keeps telling you that his soul is still corrupted because Death said it would take a long time to heal.

He didn't go back to normal until the end of Spider-Geddon and we've barely seen him after that until he showed up in Beyond. You're ignoring what the actual comics said just to be mad and argue these pedantic details.

And in spite of that, wanna know what the difference was between that and this? He was at least trying to be a hero because, in spite of that. Yes, he made a number of mistakes due to his moral compass being messed up by the corruption of his soul which caused him to lash out in an anti-heroic way but none of them were in ways that were actively malicious to who was innocent. Even with Mephisto, he was tricked into thinking that he could instantly fix his problem and was at a desperate point in which he couldn’t even trust himself. And he’s far from the only member of the Spider family who has made a deal with him at that.

And while he didn’t show up much after Spider-Geddon, he did show up acting in a way that matched with his status at the end of Spider-Geddon. It’s only Wells who then decided to backtrack on that status and offer zero explanation during a story that was about him simply for the endgame of forcing Chasm. Look, you’re free to just eat up and accept this kind of bullshit like this is the ‘everything is fine’ meme, but people have the right to be upset about them forcing this shit when the story had brought him past it. Doesn’t mean that anyone is ignoring shit. You need to get off your high horse.

[Pav]

You're ignoring what the actual comics said just to be mad and argue these pedantic details.

Look, you’re free to just eat up and accept this kind of bullshit like this is the ‘everything is fine’ meme, but people have the right to be upset about them forcing this shit when the story had brought him past it. Doesn’t mean that anyone is ignoring shit. You need to get off your high horse.

As I often remind my students, please keep in mind that your perceptions of reality are only that: to paraphrase Hamlet, any particular comic book isn't good or bad until someone thinks it is. And because taste is subjective, and because there are innumerable aspects that make a comic stronger or weaker in the eyes of readers, and because we may value those various aspects to different degrees than other readers, IT WOULD BEHOOVE ALL OF US to be respectful in our discussions and willing to accept that our own perceptions are not objective reality.

No, my version would be more anti-villain than anti-hero

I've always thought that, when done right, Ben Reilly could work well as an anti-villain -- that his experiences and his identity as a clone might skew the "standard Peter Parker values" slightly into something more... I dunno... dangerous? Nietzsche said, "Terribleness is part of greatness." There's something to that worth exploring within the frames of "power and responsibility," I think.

-Pav, who knows not everyone goes for deep philosophic stuff in their comics though...

[The Black Death]

No, my version would be more anti-villain than anti-hero - Anti-Villian " a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable. Alternatively, their goals may be selfish or have long-term consequences they don't care about, but they're good people who might even team up with the hero if their goals don't conflict." It would be made clear in the story Ben is actually a villain who doesn't know or care he is a villain and should not be admired despite his "noble" goals thus he would not be an anti-hero.

Well if you put it that way it makes some sense all that, at least it makes more sense with what Wells is doing with Ben's motivations, although if it's any consolation your idea doesn't sound so far fetched that it will come true at some point in time, just with some differences, because it seems not many noticed that there is a pattern when Ben first became a villain, after Ben will stop being the New Jackal for a while Ben was an antihero, so the moment Ben stops being a villain for the second time could become an antihero again and combining it with your story it would be interesting to see that, I already see coming also a certain person who has a trauma with Ben being an antihero .

[Huntsman Spider]

I've been contemplating something like this for a while tbh. While I always felt Ben had a distinct voice from Peter and had characteristics that made him unique, I understand why some feel like he was still too similar to Peter. Which, to a lot of us Ben fans we'd say that's part of the point, but I do think that it'd be best for the character to make him more different. Which is why I'd be okay with Ben keeping whatever new powers he has as Chasm...even if I think Chasm was a poor way to make Ben "different" from Peter. But even then, I still feel like they need to add a little more to his character. And I think a good start would be giving Ben a unique interest. Peter is a science-wiz, Miles is an artist (at least nowadays), Gwen is into music, etc. Ben being more of a detective as you said would be an interesting direction for the character, I also remember seeing Pav bring up the idea of Ben being into philosophy on Twitter, which I really like and think makes sense considering his character. To bring out a suggestion myself: Maybe he could be interested in psychology? I honestly think it could work, especially after everything the poor guys been through.

Ben as the most philosophically or existentially inclined of the Spider-Men makes a lot of sense when you put it that way.

If they really want to make this work Chasm should be a delusional villain. Have him firmly believe he is doing right and by doing right he means destroying the existing Superhero/Supervillian order because it is "hopelessly broken". Take him a step beyond classic Venom. He should believe that Humanity is so far gone the only way it can be saved is if he takes the drastic measures Peter won't: like killing Norman Osborn along with other displaceable villains and using his genius to help the common people whether they want that help or not, for example, have him create a town somewhere that is essentially a "perfect peaceful society" aka a cult, those types of things. When he eventually faces off against Peter he should accuse Peter of being the wrong one who is "irresponsibly wasting his potential to change things" and "disgracing the memory of Uncle Ben". Furthermore, Ben becomes enraged whenever a "hero" or anyone calls him a villain or questions his warped methods in any way. Have him firmly believe he is the "only true hero".

So . . . kind of like when he was the Jackal and thinking "reanimating" everyone who ever died on Peter's watch would enable him to make a world free of death and suffering, and then deciding to kill Peter and take his place when Peter wasn't on board and used the memory of Uncle Ben to call him out on what he was doing?

I like to think, more a feeble hope really, that is on purpose, that he kind do not know how to be a villain and try to make up a persona based on the few tidbits of memories he still has.

<on side note coll avatar pic Mercwmouth12, guyver fans are so rare these times....>

Kind of like how according to Sam Raimi, symbiote-possessed Peter in Spider-Man 3 was still an utter dork who had no idea how to "act cool"?

The Guyver needs a comeback. The over story and premise it outstanding

It’s a shame too, because the manga has been on hiatus for the last couple years.

Cosigned on Guyver, though. I could see a crossover with Spider-Man and/or Venom, given the Guyver Unit being basically a symbiotic alien armor and all.

Also, a great fix-fic for the end/aftermath of Spider-Man Beyond, by someone as fed up with The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly as we are here.