Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2022

[Sr. Bungle]

The juvenile bickering is unncessary.

There are pros and cons to the idea of retconning modern Ben into Spidercide, just as there are pros and cons to moving the character forward as is.

Acknowledgment of this would be beneficial.

-Pav, who enjoyed some excellent new X-Men comics today...

Co-signed. Keep it friendly guys

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Well, at least it's JRJr Ben ever since the '90s (one headshot in an early '00s one if you wanna go there) even if it is what it is.

[Huntsman Spider]

The juvenile bickering is unncessary.

There are pros and cons to the idea of retconning modern Ben into Spidercide, just as there are pros and cons to moving the character forward as is.

Acknowledgment of this would be beneficial.

-Pav, who enjoyed some excellent new X-Men comics today...

Chasm returns in ASM#14

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfHVEC1p...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

That doesn't look very good

Not at all, but thanks, Pav, for trying to calm things down here. Which X-Men comics would those be, if I may ask, and speaking of X-Men, what do you think of Madelyne Pryor and The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly joining forces?

[Mercwmouth12]

Not at all, but thanks, Pav, for trying to calm things down here. Which X-Men comics would those be, if I may ask, and speaking of X-Men, what do you think of Madelyne Pryor and The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly joining forces?

Do you also think Jannie and/or MJ will be involved as well?

[boots]

That doesn't look very good

i think the draft looks fine as a drawing, whatever my feelings on chasm

and hey...it looks like there's some people excited by it. good to remember opinion goes beyond our space here

[jda95]

The juvenile bickering is unncessary.

There are pros and cons to the idea of retconning modern Ben into Spidercide, just as there are pros and cons to moving the character forward as is.

Acknowledgment of this would be beneficial.

-Pav, who enjoyed some excellent new X-Men comics today...

You have a way with words - I was tempted to just type "get a room" but was worried that would have been perhaps even more incendiary...

[Huntsman Spider]

Do you also think Jannie and/or MJ will be involved as well?

I would hope so, yeah.

[Sr. Bungle]

I wouldn't mind seeing Janine and Marcus, at all. Maybe in Dark Web

[Huntsman Spider]

I wouldn't mind seeing Janine and Marcus, at all. Maybe in Dark Web

Yeah, that would make sense.

[WallStreeter]

Not at all, but thanks, Pav, for trying to calm things down here. Which X-Men comics would those be, if I may ask, and speaking of X-Men, what do you think of Madelyne Pryor and The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly joining forces?

Interesting idea. They are both angry clones of major superheroes.

[Lukmendes]

If they wanted to retcon Spidercide into being "Ben," easy enough to keep Janine and not do harm to her character. For example, Kafka could have agreed to work witih Beyond and "Ben" to help Spidercide regain his sense of purpose and sanity after Clone Conspiracy, etc. Kafka came up with bringing in Janine to help since she knew the original Ben so well, and Janine knew ahead of time the condition for getting her out of jail was to help mend "Ben's" psyche. And when Janine saw that Beyond was trying to break down "Ben" instead of build him up as was the plan - and Kafka was turned into a goblin - Janine decided to take down Beyond. She's staying with Chasm because she knows she is the one slender link he still has to sanity and she still hasn't completed her mission of destroying Beyond and Maxine Danger...


Not saying that's what will happen/did happen, but a retcon that doesn't do harm to Janine is possible...

Why the hell would Janine care that much about Spidercide to spend that much time to help him? Lol.

And? Cosmic beings aren't known to always be the brightest bulbs either, plus it'd make them look flawed and capable of making errors.

Death shouldn't be stupid enough to confuse someone thinking he's Ben with actual Ben.

If a retcon were to be made to make the current Ben be Spidercide or whatever, have him thinking he was speaking with Death when he wasn't, at least the idea of "He's mentally ill and thinking he's someone else" would sound more plausible to think he had the "approval" of "Death".

At least a retcon like that would explain why Death isn't interested in Krakoa now that I think of it.

I don't get your fixation with wanting to keep the Ben we have when he's damaged goods and fits Spidercide's character and situations so much better.

With Spidercide just recently saying he doesn't wanna be Ben, it doesn't suit him at all, he's just being screwed up for a bigger screw up to look better lol.

Or retconning Sins Past? I doubt there's that many fans of that, but there's bound to have been a choice few that were invested in that turn of events.

I'm sure all the two Norman/Gwen shippers were disappointed .

Interesting idea. They are both angry clones of major superheroes.

They also only became as evil as they did thanks to bad writing and Marvel's own lack of care for clones, even got killed off because they're clones, so they have a lot to relate with each other .

[Refrax5]

You have a way with words - I was tempted to just type "get a room" but was worried that would have been perhaps even more incendiary...

Well, yes, and I think everyone has a healthy respect and affection for Pav so he can say things like that and most of us will listen.

[Pav]

Not at all, but thanks, Pav, for trying to calm things down here. Which X-Men comics would those be, if I may ask, and speaking of X-Men, what do you think of Madelyne Pryor and The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly joining forces?

Let me start by saying I'm a huge fan of the direction that Hickman has taken the X-Men line. The Krakoa era is ripe with possibility, and I was a little bummed when, after Hickman did his thing, the other X-writers weren't able to carry on with the awesomeness (in my opinion). However, this second stage of the era has provided titles that I do think live up to and carry on with the excellence of Hickman's work: specifically, Gillen's Immortal X-Men, Ewing's X-Men: Red, and Spurrier's Legion of X. All three of these titles are doing fascinating work within the X-line, and when I read them I'm often left astonished at what I just read. To a lesser extent, I'd also add adjectiveless X-Men and New Mutants to the list, but much of my love for the latter title is because of the artwork -- although I am interested in Maddie Pryor's current storyline in that title.

As for her team-up with Chasm... you know me: I'm open to most ideas. For me, it's all about the execution. For example, I initially really liked the idea of Ben as the new Jackal and head of his own corporation; in that era of Peter as Corporate Guy, I thought it was going to make for a really fun status quo for Ben, where he could play as Peter's mirror and be antagonistic while still remaining true to his past characterization. Unfortunately, the execution of the idea fell short in my eyes, and when Ben became bloodthirsty, I was already ready to move on to whatever came next for the character. (And as we know, the execution of THAT step was hardly a success either.)

Ben is a good man whose brain has been tampered with to the point that he cannot remember much of who he is and even what it means to be a good person. But despite that, Ben has been has always been -- and remained so, throughout Beyond -- a character who strived to do the right thing and overcome whatever life threw at him. A good writer can maintain this even with Ben as Chasm -- and a good writer SHOULD maintain this, even with Ben as Chasm; even with Ben being an antagonistic otherworldly spider-ghost-thing. And while Marvel's record with Ben isn't great, I will not be judging the story before I read it. Here's hoping Zeb Wells can walk the delicate balance without getting stuck in his own webbing I'm hopeful but pragmatic rather than optimistic.

Do you also think Jannie and/or MJ will be involved as well?

Knowing nothing about what's coming beyond the specific Chasm / Goblin Queen setup, here's hoping that it does feel like a direct continuation of Beyond, with Janine and MJ playing significant roles -- especially Janine, who I believe will inevitably be the one to rescue Ben from his current status quo as Chasm.

You have a way with words - I was tempted to just type "get a room" but was worried that would have been perhaps even more incendiary...

Well, yes, and I think everyone has a healthy respect and affection for Pav so he can say things like that and most of us will listen.

I appreciate that. For anyone who values their own personal growth and/or wants to have a better handle on their own emotions, I cannot recommend enough Thich Nhat Hanh's book Anger. I read it when I transitioned to teaching middle school, and I've found Hanh's insights to be invaluable as the leader of my classroom and, honestly, in all my relationships.

If a retcon were to be made to make the current Ben be Spidercide or whatever, have him thinking he was speaking with Death when he wasn't, at least the idea of "He's mentally ill and thinking he's someone else" would sound more plausible to think he had the "approval" of "Death".


With Spidercide just recently saying he doesn't wanna be Ben, it doesn't suit him at all, he's just being screwed up for a bigger screw up to look better lol.

I think a decent Spidercide retcon could be had, but I lean towards letting modern Ben be THE Ben we know and love. One reason? After the recent Ben Reilly miniseries, I really want to see what's next for the character of Spidercide, and turning him into a retcon to "save" the character of Ben Reilly wouldn't really do much for 'Cide becoming something greater than he has been. But as I said earlier, it's all about execution. Plenty of stories involve ideas I wouldn't love until I read the excellent execution of said idea. And plenty of ideas I initially like have fallen flat.

That's just how it goes sometimes.

Here's hoping the next issues featuring Chasm give readers something about which we can be excited! Here's hoping the issues are fun and interesting!

And if not, well, there's always future issues

-Pav, who is also currently reading The Blacktongue Thief by Christopher Buehlman; Reverence: Renewing a Forgotten Virtue by Paul Woodruff; Hellboy Omnibus Vol 4 by Mike Mignola; and Love Notes from the Hollow Tree by Jarod K. Anderson...

[Huntsman Spider]

Let me start by saying I'm a huge fan of the direction that Hickman has taken the X-Men line. The Krakoa era is ripe with possibility, and I was a little bummed when, after Hickman did his thing, the other X-writers weren't able to carry on with the awesomeness (in my opinion). However, this second stage of the era has provided titles that I do think live up to and carry on with the excellence of Hickman's work: specifically, Gillen's Immortal X-Men, Ewing's X-Men: Red, and Spurrier's Legion of X. All three of these titles are doing fascinating work within the X-line, and when I read them I'm often left astonished at what I just read. To a lesser extent, I'd also add adjectiveless X-Men and New Mutants to the list, but much of my love for the latter title is because of the artwork -- although I am interested in Maddie Pryor's current storyline in that title.

As for her team-up with Chasm... you know me: I'm open to most ideas. For me, it's all about the execution. For example, I initially really liked the idea of Ben as the new Jackal and head of his own corporation; in that era of Peter as Corporate Guy, I thought it was going to make for a really fun status quo for Ben, where he could play as Peter's mirror and be antagonistic while still remaining true to his past characterization. Unfortunately, the execution of the idea fell short in my eyes, and when Ben became bloodthirsty, I was already ready to move on to whatever came next for the character. (And as we know, the execution of THAT step was hardly a success either.)

Ben is a good man whose brain has been tampered with to the point that he cannot remember much of who he is and even what it means to be a good person. But despite that, Ben has been has always been -- and remained so, throughout Beyond -- a character who strived to do the right thing and overcome whatever life threw at him. A good writer can maintain this even with Ben as Chasm -- and a good writer SHOULD maintain this, even with Ben as Chasm; even with Ben being an antagonistic otherworldly spider-ghost-thing. And while Marvel's record with Ben isn't great, I will not be judging the story before I read it. Here's hoping Zeb Wells can walk the delicate balance without getting stuck in his own webbing I'm hopeful but pragmatic rather than optimistic.




Knowing nothing about what's coming beyond the specific Chasm / Goblin Queen setup, here's hoping that it does feel like a direct continuation of Beyond, with Janine and MJ playing significant roles -- especially Janine, who I believe will inevitably be the one to rescue Ben from his current status quo as Chasm.





I appreciate that. For anyone who values their own personal growth and/or wants to have a better handle on their own emotions, I cannot recommend enough Thich Nhat Hanh's book Anger. I read it when I transitioned to teaching middle school, and I've found Hanh's insights to be invaluable as the leader of my classroom and, honestly, in all my relationships.




I think a decent Spidercide retcon could be had, but I lean towards letting modern Ben be THE Ben we know and love. One reason? After the recent Ben Reilly miniseries, I really want to see what's next for the character of Spidercide, and turning him into a retcon to "save" the character of Ben Reilly wouldn't really do much for 'Cide becoming something greater than he has been. But as I said earlier, it's all about execution. Plenty of stories involve ideas I wouldn't love until I read the excellent execution of said idea. And plenty of ideas I initially like have fallen flat.

That's just how it goes sometimes.

Here's hoping the next issues featuring Chasm give readers something about which we can be excited! Here's hoping the issues are fun and interesting!

And if not, well, there's always future issues

-Pav, who is also currently reading The Blacktongue Thief by Christopher Buehlman; Reverence: Renewing a Forgotten Virtue by Paul Woodruff; Hellboy Omnibus Vol 4 by Mike Mignola; and Love Notes from the Hollow Tree by Jarod K. Anderson...

Thank you very much for your insights and your recommended reading. I should probably check some of those out at some point. And yeah, while there are some things that I or others might take issue with in the Krakoan Age, I do think it's great as an exploration of what happens when a historically marginalized, alienated, and demonized group of people finally enter or attain a position of real (as in geopolitical/economic) power that enables them to set the terms for how they relate to the rest of the world and how the rest of the world has to adjust to or accommodate them for a change. Considering the historical camaraderie between Spider-Man and the X-Men due to both being feared and hated by the general public and kept at a distance from or by the rest of the superhero community, albeit for differing reasons, I'm also looking forward to seeing the web-slinger at the Hellfire Gala 2022 and wondering how that could dovetail with or lead into Dark Web's impending confrontation with "Chasm" and Madelyne Pryor.

[Sr. Bungle]

https://twitter.com/nick_lowe_/statu...VmyEmuTug&s=19

I don't know what to think about this answer