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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That's what I figured. I hear Bernard got kidnapped and Tim rescued him or something? So not *purely* a romance story, but close.

    I'll happily grab Tim's book when the main driver of the story isn't who he's dating (man or woman). I heard something about him being a big player in a upcoming Batman run, or something?
    From what I've heard it's like Steph, just without Steph .

    Basically Tim is set to be the Robin of Zdarsky's run.

  2. #512
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    DARK CRISIS: YOUNG JUSTICE #3
    Written by MEGHAN FITZMARTIN
    Art by LAURA BRAGA
    Cover by MAX DUNBAR
    Variant cover by JORGE CORONA
    $3.99 US | 32 pages | 3 of 6 | Variant $4.99 US (card stock)
    ON SALE 8/16/22
    Sins of the old! In response to their lack of gratitude, the world holding Superboy, Impulse, and Tim Drake captive has brought back the three villains who have
    caused them the most pain to keep them in their place: Deathstroke, Captain
    Boomerang, and Lex Luthor. Old wounds will open. Wonder Girl and her search
    team will have to hurry up before there's no Young Justice left to save!


  3. #513
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, so I guess Captain Boomerang killing Tim's dad is back in-canon.

  4. #514
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Some thoughts on several things: In regard to the tumblr fans, vast majority seem to be TimKon, then TimSteph, with some Timber (as it's being called) and limited. To me the issue with Bernard is that he's going to become a Gwen Stacey, in that you could have had an interesting character, but to do so would be work and some don't want to do that. My feeling is that you could have used several characters rather than him. Off the top of my head other than Bernard:

    Bunker -was part of Tim's TT for a while, they had a good relationship.
    Jackson Hyde -Again part of Tim's team way earlier
    Zachary Zartar -Could easily have made him Bi too and played with some of the Zantana/Batman aspect going on there, they also had a friendship for a bit.
    Hal Jordan Jr (Airwave) -already out as either bi or gay, and needs a mentor. Tim can teach him the way Dick taught him and you establish a relationship there.
    Hell even the Kid from school that was going to be King Cobra. He could be way more interesting.
    De-age Obsidian and you can go with that...

    I do think the reason why they went with Bernard is because he is so much like Steph that no one would complain about things. And yes I agree that the break up needs to be explored.

    On the issue of gay men in DC, off the top of my head:

    Todd Scott -Obsidian (Was one of the first characters to come out as gay. Whole thing wit Atom Smasher happened too)
    Hal Jordan Jr. -Airwave (Mentioned to his uncle he likes a guy)
    Apollo and Midnighter (Married couple)
    Bunker (We saw him basically lose his boyfriend)

    There's a whole list of names on the DC wiki about this.

    Bernard is going to either need to be a person, or else over time, he's going to be tossed due to the novelty of him wearing out.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Some thoughts on several things: In regard to the tumblr fans, vast majority seem to be TimKon, then TimSteph, with some Timber (as it's being called) and limited. To me the issue with Bernard is that he's going to become a Gwen Stacey, in that you could have had an interesting character, but to do so would be work and some don't want to do that. My feeling is that you could have used several characters rather than him. Off the top of my head other than Bernard:

    Bunker -was part of Tim's TT for a while, they had a good relationship.
    Jackson Hyde -Again part of Tim's team way earlier
    Zachary Zartar -Could easily have made him Bi too and played with some of the Zantana/Batman aspect going on there, they also had a friendship for a bit.
    Hal Jordan Jr (Airwave) -already out as either bi or gay, and needs a mentor. Tim can teach him the way Dick taught him and you establish a relationship there.
    Hell even the Kid from school that was going to be King Cobra. He could be way more interesting.
    De-age Obsidian and you can go with that...

    I do think the reason why they went with Bernard is because he is so much like Steph that no one would complain about things. And yes I agree that the break up needs to be explored.

    On the issue of gay men in DC, off the top of my head:

    Todd Scott -Obsidian (Was one of the first characters to come out as gay. Whole thing wit Atom Smasher happened too)
    Hal Jordan Jr. -Airwave (Mentioned to his uncle he likes a guy)
    Apollo and Midnighter (Married couple)
    Bunker (We saw him basically lose his boyfriend)

    There's a whole list of names on the DC wiki about this.

    Bernard is going to either need to be a person, or else over time, he's going to be tossed due to the novelty of him wearing out.
    Mentioning Bernard in the same vein as Gwen Stacy is a slander to Gwen.

    Anyway the whole using Bernard "because he is so much like Steph that no one would complain about things" doesn't work for me at all and feels like a slap in the face. Instead of giving us what we want we are getting a bootleg, downgraded version and that makes the breakup feel pointless and forced. It's like if someone broke up Peter and MJ for a not MJ, which would rightfully piss people off due to being redundant. It just shows the quality of Fitzmartin's writing which is fanfic level.

  6. #516
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOCTPHOENIX View Post
    Mentioning Bernard in the same vein as Gwen Stacy is a slander to Gwen.

    Anyway the whole using Bernard "because he is so much like Steph that no one would complain about things" doesn't work for me at all and feels like a slap in the face. Instead of giving us what we want we are getting a bootleg, downgraded version and that makes the breakup feel pointless and forced. It's like if someone broke up Peter and MJ for a not MJ, which would rightfully piss people off due to being redundant. It just shows the quality of Fitzmartin's writing which is fanfic level.
    I almost wanna place a bet that Steph starts to date a not Tim Tim type. Where its Tim in all but name. And Hell you could have just as easily conseved the reason they broke up due to her sometimes reckless actions. See pre war games break up.

    On a side note, who is Bart gonna fight, Slade? I'm surprised its not Zoom or Inertia.

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    I almost wanna place a bet that Steph starts to date a not Tim Tim type. Where its Tim in all but name. And Hell you could have just as easily conseved the reason they broke up due to her sometimes reckless actions. See pre war games break up.

    On a side note, who is Bart gonna fight, Slade? I'm surprised its not Zoom or Inertia.
    I think the breakdown is supposed ot be like this:

    Tim vs Captain Boomerang because Boomer killed his dad.

    Kon vs Luthor because of the whole "Manchurian Superboy" thing.

    Bart vs Deathstroke because he shot Bart in the kneecap, triggering his transformation into Kid Flash.

    Basically, it's a lineup exclusively favoring stories from the Johns era, which kind of clashes with their costumes coming form before that era... which could give the story a meta-subtext of them confronting villains who "changed them" into lamer forms... but probably isn't, since DC likely sees that period as their apex, rather than a briefly functioning time of high concepts that simultaneously neutered them a bit.

    Though that does make me think - who do you guys think is Tim's best "Big Bad?" I still think King Snake might take it overall...
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I think the breakdown is supposed ot be like this:

    Tim vs Captain Boomerang because Boomer killed his dad.

    Kon vs Luthor because of the whole "Manchurian Superboy" thing.

    Bart vs Deathstroke because he shot Bart in the kneecap, triggering his transformation into Kid Flash.

    Basically, it's a lineup exclusively favoring stories from the Johns era, which kind of clashes with their costumes coming form before that era... which could give the story a meta-subtext of them confronting villains who "changed them" into lamer forms... but probably isn't, since DC likely sees that period as their apex, rather than a briefly functioning time of high concepts that simultaneously neutered them a bit.

    Though that does make me think - who do you guys think is Tim's best "Big Bad?" I still think King Snake might take it overall...
    The General

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The General
    I definitely dig him more than Johnny Warlock. I just also think they never quite got him totally perfected as an archfoe - Nicieza did a good job giving him a personal grudge and emphasizing him as an enemy, but clouded the issue with the Anarchy redo, while the original version was more of a gimmick than a character and the Rebirth one was a bit lackluster.

    Don't get me wrong; King Snake developed a shelf-life as time went on, and I think his final confrontation with Robin was about as far as that rivalry could go. But I also think that Dixon wrote him as a peak loathsome-yet-formidable Big Bad for Tim specifically.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  10. #520
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Some thoughts on several things: In regard to the tumblr fans, vast majority seem to be TimKon, then TimSteph, with some Timber (as it's being called) and limited. To me the issue with Bernard is that he's going to become a Gwen Stacey, in that you could have had an interesting character, but to do so would be work and some don't want to do that. My feeling is that you could have used several characters rather than him. Off the top of my head other than Bernard:

    Bunker -was part of Tim's TT for a while, they had a good relationship.
    Jackson Hyde -Again part of Tim's team way earlier
    Zachary Zartar -Could easily have made him Bi too and played with some of the Zantana/Batman aspect going on there, they also had a friendship for a bit.
    Hal Jordan Jr (Airwave) -already out as either bi or gay, and needs a mentor. Tim can teach him the way Dick taught him and you establish a relationship there.
    Hell even the Kid from school that was going to be King Cobra. He could be way more interesting.
    De-age Obsidian and you can go with that...

    I do think the reason why they went with Bernard is because he is so much like Steph that no one would complain about things. And yes I agree that the break up needs to be explored.

    On the issue of gay men in DC, off the top of my head:

    Todd Scott -Obsidian (Was one of the first characters to come out as gay. Whole thing wit Atom Smasher happened too)
    Hal Jordan Jr. -Airwave (Mentioned to his uncle he likes a guy)
    Apollo and Midnighter (Married couple)
    Bunker (We saw him basically lose his boyfriend)

    There's a whole list of names on the DC wiki about this.

    Bernard is going to either need to be a person, or else over time, he's going to be tossed due to the novelty of him wearing out.
    Few things

    Tim Drake has never met bunker. Bunker was in a team with a guy who stole money from Penguin and whose real name wasn't Tim Drake.

    Jackson Hyde debuted in Damian's TT so he wasn't a part of Tim's team from earlier.

    Bernard is fine and can be fleshed out. Please don't de-age Obsidian just to be the love interest of a white character.

    Bat character tend to eclipse other franchises therefore it'd be bad to partner Tim with characters like Jackson. same reason I'm not a fan of TimKon or Wonderbat. I don't Jackson to become Red Robin's boyfriend rather than Aqualad/Aquaman

    If there's one thing the Dick v Tim discourse on Tumblr has proven it's that majority of batfamily fans on tumblr don't follow the actual comics.

    I wouldn't worry about which ship is more popular on social media since those fans aren't all comic buying fans. Timber has room to grow.

  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Bernard is fine and can be fleshed out. Please don't de-age Obsidian just to be the love interest of a white character.
    While I'm also not a big fan of deaging (and don't think that a depressive character like Obsidian would be a good choice to begin with) I don#t get what Tim's skin color has to do with it...


    Honestly out of the named ones Bunker seems to me like the only fun choice.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Few things

    Tim Drake has never met bunker. Bunker was in a team with a guy who stole money from Penguin and whose real name wasn't Tim Drake.

    Jackson Hyde debuted in Damian's TT so he wasn't a part of Tim's team from earlier.

    Bernard is fine and can be fleshed out. Please don't de-age Obsidian just to be the love interest of a white character.

    Bat character tend to eclipse other franchises therefore it'd be bad to partner Tim with characters like Jackson. same reason I'm not a fan of TimKon or Wonderbat. I don't Jackson to become Red Robin's boyfriend rather than Aqualad/Aquaman

    If there's one thing the Dick v Tim discourse on Tumblr has proven it's that majority of batfamily fans on tumblr don't follow the actual comics.

    I wouldn't worry about which ship is more popular on social media since those fans aren't all comic buying fans. Timber has room to grow.
    Oh yeah for sure. Twitter and Tumblr only are care about two things. Sexuality and ships and dumb down/flanderize characters for this.

    But I am curious. What do the Dick v Tim discourses say?

  13. #523
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOCTPHOENIX View Post
    Oh yeah for sure. Twitter and Tumblr only are care about two things. Sexuality and ships and dumb down/flanderize characters for this.

    But I am curious. What do the Dick v Tim discourses say?
    That Dick took Robin from Tim, kicked him out of the Manor and tried to send him to Arkham.

    Turns out a lot of fic writers and blogs thought this was canon because they don't read comics so have basically being demonising Nightwing for years now.

  14. #524
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    While I'm also not a big fan of deaging (and don't think that a depressive character like Obsidian would be a good choice to begin with) I don#t get what Tim's skin color has to do with it...


    Honestly out of the named ones Bunker seems to me like the only fun choice.
    Bunker is the best choice but that would require writers address the fake Tim era and that era of Lobdells TT.

  15. #525
    Incredible Member Rufio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Bunker is the best choice but that would require writers address the fake Tim era and that era of Lobdells TT.
    Nah, they don’t have to do that. When does DC ever care about continuity anyway? It would be fine.

    If Tim’s gonna have a boyfriend let’s get rid of Bernard and Tim can date Bunker.
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    Once again they found themselves trapped in front of the abyss.”

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