Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2022

[Frontier]

Tim Drake finally shows up in Dark Knights of Steel

http://https://aiptcomics.com/2022/04/22/dc-preview-dark-knights-of-steel-6/

Try to help a drunk manchild...get ratted out for it.

Sometimes it sucks being nice .

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Yes, Tumblr has a bit of a race problem with its ‘shipping; it’s where the most vocal Reylo fans are if they’re not currently employed by Lucasfilm, when that Star Wars relationship is basically the racist, sexist, and abusive alternative to Rey and Finn.

Yes, Webtoons tend to have some demographic issues because of the types of fan communities they spawn from and how their creators try to cater to specific audiences, while generally emerging from the same demographic.

But the biggest thing here is what I noted was likely the case a few months ago; if they’re serious about getting Tim established as a bisexual character, and making a mark in that manner, than they have to double down, double down, and over-exaggerate it again and again, because they have to compete with Stephanie Brown, a love interest so successful she became her own star.

It's a combination of how ‘shipping online tends have a certain amount of white privilege, strong myopia, and how there is a specific company push of Tim as a bisexual character right now, trying to make do with a character in Bernard who’s… well, not exactly the most interesting love interest, because being a live interest is mostly his only job right now.

In competing with Steph, maybe it'd help if they y'know stop making this guy a male Steph. I mean blonde, happy upbeat personality, fan of superheroes, fighting kidnappers with Tim, part of the appeal due to fighting ability. The fact the same inner monologue that appeared when Tim got with Steph was used in UL 10 (ignoring the fact Tim and Steph had buildup over many issues instead of 2 which is why UL doesn't have the same narrative impact/weight) pretty much confirms this and shows a rehash of many aspects of Tim's dynamic with Steph rather than just parallels. It's like Fitzmartin understands that Stephanie IS the one for Tim but this makes the breakup feel more bitter and forced if that is the case . It's like if someone understood that Peter Parker works best with MJ but instead of pairing him with MJ, broke them up and gave us MJ but brunette or something just cuz the author didn't want to have MJ.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

This is something that has been bothering me for years. How old is Tim Drake in the Return of the Joker flashback?

[Aahz]

How would y'all feel if Tim became Red X as his own identity?

Wouldn't make much sense, the popular version of Red X is more of a Thief/Anti-Hero, and the look of the costume is pretty dark and edgy, that just doesn't fit Tim.

I think Jason is kind of the only Batfamily member where this identity would really fit.

And I think Tim really needs either a new Identity that would really be his own, so either a new one, or one that is pretty obscure.

[Frontier]

In competing with Steph, maybe it'd help if they y'know stop making this guy a male Steph. I mean blonde, happy upbeat personality, fan of superheroes, fighting kidnappers with Tim, part of the appeal due to fighting ability. The fact the same inner monologue that appeared when Tim got with Steph was used in UL 10 (ignoring the fact Tim and Steph had buildup over many issues instead of 2 which is why UL doesn't have the same narrative impact/weight) pretty much confirms this and shows a rehash of many aspects of Tim's dynamic with Steph rather than just parallels. It's like Fitzmartin understands that Stephanie IS the one for Tim but this makes the breakup feel more bitter and forced if that is the case . It's like if someone understood that Peter Parker works best with MJ but instead of pairing him with MJ, broke them up and gave us MJ but brunette or something just cuz the author didn't want to have MJ.

All we're missing is him hitting Tim with a brick.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Wouldn't make much sense, the popular version of Red X is more of a Thief/Anti-Hero, and the look of the costume is pretty dark and edgy, that just doesn't fit Tim.

I think Jason is kind of the only Batfamily member where this identity would really fit.

And I think Tim really needs either a new Identity that would really be his own, so either a new one, or one that is pretty obscure.

Maybe Tim could be Redbird. I mean technically he came up with the name even if for his car.

All we're missing is him hitting Tim with a brick.

I wouldn't put it past Fitzmartin to include this......

Another thing. People (and WFA) only want Tim and Steph to be 'platonic best friends' or think they work best that way (baseless claim as they've NEVER been that. Even when broken up they were still attracted to each othe but didn't act on it as they realized it wasn't good for them at the time) do so not because they want or care about Tim and Steph to be important to each other but to get their relationship out of the way for the sake of shipping. WFA a few episodes after having Tim help Steph with her issues yet only vaguely alluding to their relationship (while including other important aspects of their character history like Steph as Robin and Batgirl and Tim's friendship with the YJ while their relationship is just as essential and important to both characters as these things are) introduces his new relationship (which hasn't even really started) confirms this.

[Aahz]

Maybe Tim could be Redbird. I mean technically he came up with the name even if for his car.

Redbird sounds still like a name that is derived from Robin, he really needs something more unique.

If they are really going to jut focus on the LGBT+ aspect of the character they could of course go with "Rainbow Batman"

[Arctic Cyclist]

This is something that has been bothering me for years. How old is Tim Drake in the Return of the Joker flashback?

Sixteen.

Tim is, was, and always will be sixteen. All universes. All timelines. No matter what. He. Is. Sixteen.

[Rac7d*]

Glad he survived dark knights of steel

[KrustyKid]

Glad he survived dark knights of steel

Which is nice, since Tim typically gets washed in AU's

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Which is nice, since Tim typically gets washed in AU's

He was still alive in Nightwing New Order where he is a dad with three kids (and married to Steph).

[Darkspellmaster]

Sorry if these are out of order.

Sadly and that seems to be the only place where the author of Wayne Family Adventures did their research on the Batfamily in general.

I think it's more research from DC wanting to push things and Twitter over Tumblr.

Benard looks like his audience . That’s all.

The black community hasn’t really taken to Duke, much less Jace or even Luke who proceeds booth. They don’t appear enough and when they do it’s in a ensemble.

A lot of the issue is that they're not promoting him. Duke is great, Jace (or Tim) eh....why not give him the name Orpheus again? The character was a lot better and at least the name would work better I think. Luke had a movie at the very least with Batwoman, and I think would work well if there was a Batfamily tv show. Seriously, or do a drama with the Fox family and their connection to the Waynes.

Unfortunately, this is true. There is a strong point of shipping in tumblr (especially BL). So, it's pretty likely shipping is one of the reasons why Bernard would have more relevance than other promiment characters in the Batfamily.

To be fair, Webtoons are popular between the tumblr audience. So, it has sense they appeal to that audience.

Ehhhh, here's the thing, Tumblr is not the same site it was before the people leaving for Twitter. I would say this is more for Twitter than Tumblr. Bernard isn't even a blip really in the majority of post under his name on Tumblr. You have to go looking for it, and if they were really trying to appeal to the Tumblr crowd, then it would be with Conner, not Bernard.

[Darkspellmaster]

Sorry if this is in different order

Somebody bought this up like this on Twitter...

You can have a white character make a guest spot on a show or be a minor character and gain a following.
Yet you can have a black MALE as a lead on that show and HE get no boost or following.

Lucas Sinclair on Stranger Things say HI. Compare what Lucas has versus the rest of the cast INCLUDING Barb, the fake Rob Lowe, Wynonna Ryder's boyfriend in season 2, the bullies from season 1 & his SISTER-who got her own OGN.

Same with Quincy Fouse on Legacies and Titus Makin Jr on The Rookie (and his character was gay-yet no fits were thrown when he got killed off).


Editorial forced that and that was one of the things that send Burnside Batgirl team to Image.

It's not by accident Luke and Duke have been buried. They might as well move in with Jace in New York.

This I feel is very true. It's something that happens all over the place. You point out Lucas, I would also say look at the cast from YJ, other than Jackson (Kaldural), there hasn't been a lot of focus on black or other minority characters. Last season we had Black Lighting, but his story didn't really go very far as it kept getting side tracked for the bigger plot, and no Static. Also this season, the biggest minority character getting the attention is Rocket and Lor Zod (chris kent), and the former is struggling (badly) with the idea of her son having autism, and the latter is the bad guy. So...yeah...And that sucks! I can guess why they did it, cowards, but it comes down to business and sales and all that bullshit. I mean hell back when Kate was dating Eli in YA, you still had people bitching about that too.

I think Duke and Luke could be used a lot better, I think Jace is just a bit too much at this point.

So basically what you guys are saying is that white audiences still have an issue with non white characters? It's 2022 for fucks sake!

Yup, it's everywhere. I mean look at Carol and Rhodey. For a while they killed him and finally they brought him back but they're not having them a couple even though it actually makes damn sense.

Yes, Tumblr has a bit of a race problem with its ‘shipping; it’s where the most vocal Reylo fans are if they’re not currently employed by Lucasfilm, when that Star Wars relationship is basically the racist, sexist, and abusive alternative to Rey and Finn.

Gotten better since a lot of those guys moved to Twitter. Reylos have died way the hell down and moved on to other things. but damn if they didn't make shipping Rey and Finn into a nightmare.

Yes, Webtoons tend to have some demographic issues because of the types of fan communities they spawn from and how their creators try to cater to specific audiences, while generally emerging from the same demographic.

One can argue that all comics and serial stories do this. Look at Shonen Jump and what gets picked up. Only now that they're trying to expand more to female readers are there more focus on stories that are less Dragon Ball Z esque and more Inuyasha like.

But the biggest thing here is what I noted was likely the case a few months ago; if they’re serious about getting Tim established as a bisexual character, and making a mark in that manner, than they have to double down, double down, and over-exaggerate it again and again, because they have to compete with Stephanie Brown, a love interest so successful she became her own star.

It's a combination of how ‘shipping online tends have a certain amount of white privilege, strong myopia, and how there is a specific company push of Tim as a bisexual character right now, trying to make do with a character in Bernard who’s… well, not exactly the most interesting love interest, because being a live interest is mostly his only job right now.

I think Steph is the MJ of Tim in a lot of ways. You can put Tim with other girls but everyone wants him back with Steph. I mean if they really wanted to be interesting with this, Hal Jordan's Nephew Hal Jr. (Airwave) is gay or Bi himself. And one of the the things that he wanted to do was learn from Hal to be a better hero. Hal kinda brushed him off and said go look to the batfamily for help. So why not run with what Morrison set up. Have Airwave meet Robin. The two start off as friend/Mentor situation, and eventually they date. It's right there! It right's itself and there's all the damn dynamics between Hal and Bruce and how they react to one another. Not to mention Guy and the other Lanterns with the past with Bruce and Co. There's sooo much there that can be used and it's not the MALE version of STEPH.

Hell Bernard used to be WAY different back when Dixion or Fabian wrote him back in the day. It feels like they just picked a character that fit the "Look" of Steph, and that had a tie to Tim rather than working on building something that fans can like. I partly think this is more because if they want to go back to Steph it will be easy to do.

Well, the Red X moniker has the advantage of already being an established and semi-known one, and Red X is known for his impressive set of abilities and gadgets, but this identity is also heavily associated with Dick, as it was originally just another identity Dick created.
I believe Tim needs to move out of Dick's shadow and have his own things.

Eh...gotta agree. Red X doesn't feel right for him. Honestly I think DC should look into their old characters and look over unused names and see if it fits.

[Darkspellmaster]

In competing with Steph, maybe it'd help if they y'know stop making this guy a male Steph. I mean blonde, happy upbeat personality, fan of superheroes, fighting kidnappers with Tim, part of the appeal due to fighting ability. The fact the same inner monologue that appeared when Tim got with Steph was used in UL 10 (ignoring the fact Tim and Steph had buildup over many issues instead of 2 which is why UL doesn't have the same narrative impact/weight) pretty much confirms this and shows a rehash of many aspects of Tim's dynamic with Steph rather than just parallels. It's like Fitzmartin understands that Stephanie IS the one for Tim but this makes the breakup feel more bitter and forced if that is the case . It's like if someone understood that Peter Parker works best with MJ but instead of pairing him with MJ, broke them up and gave us MJ but brunette or something just cuz the author didn't want to have MJ.

Carlie Cooper say hi. And yes I agree.

All we're missing is him hitting Tim with a brick.

Oh just wait...it will happen at some point.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

So we can all agree Tim and Cassandra Cain should NEVER be a thing right?