Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2022

[BrianWilly]

I was really looking forward to the Tim solo series but reading the two Dark Crisis YJ issues has me seriously reconsidering. Every single scene feels like it was intentionally written to be as wrong as possible about...everything.

[Coco Loco]

Anyone know whose reflection was in the Supermobile's hood?

I thought it might be Mr Mxylptlk?

[Username taken]

Yep. If they wanted to say how Tim feels about Bernard is real and valid fine. But the fact they specifically mention Steph and make Tim say he doesn't want to date her along with making fake evil Batman say Steph is his destiny before going into the phase line comes across as spiting people who Tim and Steph together or as endgame. It's lumping everyone who doesn't like it as homophobic which is a strawman and disingenous as there are PLENTY of reasons why people like Tim and Steph due to their over 20+ years of history. Boiling down to "homophobia" is just refusing to acknowledge legit criticism and tells me that Fitzmartin just used Steph as a prop to shill Bernard in UL. She hates Steph and Timsteph.

Everything about Cissie was bad along as shown here:

https://twitter.com/NotYoshihide/sta...47723584970754

https://twitter.com/greenarrxws_/sta...33453358891011


The whole issue was bad and was inventing issues to try to make some kind commentary but it came across as forced, inauthentic and patting themselves on the back.

Damn, that's very bad writing.

It's like the writer is pre-emptively lashing out at people that don't support Tim and Bernard.

And in the process is committing bi-erasure. Bendis did the same thing with Iceman with the whole "you're not bi, you're gay" stuff, and even LGBTIQ people criticized it.

[Username taken]

And regarding the YJ book, the writer's approach to it is interesting to say the least.

The book is ostensibly directed at the original fans of the team only for them to be told that certain things they loved about the characters are wrong.

That's the fastest way to alienate fans of the original team.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Damn, that's very bad writing.

It's like the writer is pre-emptively lashing out at people that don't support Tim and Bernard.

And in the process is committing bi-erasure. Bendis did the same thing with Iceman with the whole "you're not bi, you're gay" stuff, and even LGBTIQ people criticized it.

Look if she wanted to comment on how what Tim feels for Bernard is valid and real as his feelings for women that is fine but specifically bringing up Steph (could have just mentioned dating women in general), have Tim be super blunt and dismissive about not wanting to date her (especially when we still don't have a good reason for it and barely know Bernard) and have an evil Batman in a nightmare world say they are destiny (or endgame) before going into the whole "phase" comment feels like saying anyone who thinks they are endgame is somehow homophobic (as if bi people can't end up with the opposite gender). Not to mention it seems to imply Steph was attracted to Tim based on his identity which couldn't be farther from the truth.........

And regarding the YJ book, the writer's approach to it is interesting to say the least.

The book is ostensibly directed at the original fans of the team only for them to be told that certain things they loved about the characters are wrong.

That's the fastest way to alienate fans of the original team.

A lot of the issues with the 90's that are legit didn't really even apply to the OG Young Justice team to quote some things I've found:

"Any valid analysis of a work should be rooted in the actual text itself, if Fitzmartin trying to craft a meta narrative around a past that blatantly didn't happen then what exactly is she even critiquing at that point? That the male members of YJ are inherently toxic and privileged because that's just how boys are? That's kind of fucked and hell even just within the context of her own series doesn't make much sense as none of them have displayed such traits."

"No ones saying sexism and male privilege isn't a thing but Fitzmartin fabricating a dilemma that never existed, as other's have said Cissie left due her therapist being murdered by a jealous ex-boyfriend who in turn Cissie almost killed in revenge and retired because she was horrified that in that moment she had gotten so close to the edge not because the guys on her team were apparently toxic."

[Restingvoice]

Next canon question, since assuming everything post crisis happened the way it was

What would the New 52 Teen Titans look like if the team is made up of Tim's team right before reboot?
The premise is the same. Harvest is hunting young metahumans, and Tim, 17, is trying to keep one step ahead.

N.O.W.H.E.R.E. will be targeting Bart, Cassie, Miss Martian and Solstice. Where will they find them and will they succeed? They would not be targeting them at Titans Tower but will be spying and following them to strike when they're alone

Of course, Conner will be with TT from the start and has no relation to Harvest

Unless you want to follow the Rebirth story and has him removed to Gemworld, while Harvest created New 52 Kon andd so the Post Crisis Tim Titans had to fight a Superboy with no history with them, with no Superboy of their own (at this point Jon Kent would still only be 3 years old and Chris Kent died)

[Frontier]

Next canon question, since assuming everything post crisis happened the way it was

What would the New 52 Teen Titans look like if the team is made up of Tim's team right before reboot?
The premise is the same. Harvest is hunting young metahumans, and Tim, 17, is trying to keep one step ahead.

N.O.W.H.E.R.E. will be targeting Bart, Cassie, Miss Martian and Solstice. Where will they find them and will they succeed? They would not be targeting them at Titans Tower but will be spying and following them to strike when they're alone

Of course, Conner will be with TT from the start and has no relation to Harvest

Unless you want to follow the Rebirth story and has him removed to Gemworld, while Harvest created New 52 Kon andd so the Post Crisis Tim Titans had to fight a Superboy with no history with them, with no Superboy of their own (at this point Jon Kent would still only be 3 years old and Chris Kent died)

Maybe they should treat it like Outlawed at Marvel where all the teen heroes of the DCU are being hunted down and the Titans have to make a stand.

[scary harpy]

dark-crisis-young-justice-2-review

What do you think of this review?

I was enjoying this mini-series. After discussion here and this review, I'm thinking of dropping it.

Nostalgia is dangerous.

[skyvolt2000]

dark-crisis-young-justice-2-review

What do you think of this review?

I was enjoying this mini-series. After discussion here and this review, I'm thinking of dropping it.

Nostalgia is dangerous.

It's dangerous when editors do NOT do their jobs.

Look if she wanted to comment on how what Tim feels for Bernard is valid and real as his feelings for women that is fine but specifically bringing up Steph (could have just mentioned dating women in general), have Tim be super blunt and dismissive about not wanting to date her (especially when we still don't have a good reason for it and barely know Bernard) and have an evil Batman in a nightmare world say they are destiny (or endgame) before going into the whole "phase" comment feels like saying anyone who thinks they are endgame is somehow homophobic (as if bi people can't end up with the opposite gender). Not to mention it seems to imply Steph was attracted to Tim based on his identity which couldn't be farther from the truth.........

Once again a real editor would stop that mess.

Because when YJ started Tim did not KNOW Bernard.

In fact YJ was DONE in 8/2003.

Bernard showed up Feb 2004.

[phonogram12]

dark-crisis-young-justice-2-review

What do you think of this review?

I was enjoying this mini-series. After discussion here and this review, I'm thinking of dropping it.

Nostalgia is dangerous.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it's also the fuel that pretty much drives DC (not to mention many of it's fans).

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Agreed. Unfortunately, it's also the fuel that pretty much drives DC (not to mention many of it's fans).

The review felt like it didn't hit what was wrong with the issue and just gave praise without really deep insight into the issue. It just told us what happens, gave a brief commentary and that's it.

I think this review highlights more of the flaws with the issue:

https://batman-news.com/2022/07/19/d...tice-2-review/

[phonogram12]

IDK. That second sounds like it has an axe to grind.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

IDK. That second sounds like it has an axe to grind.

I can see that, but I think it goes into more detail to explain the flaws with the issue unlike the first one which just gives a recap, and makes a commentary without really supporting it.

[phonogram12]

I think the second one just didn't want to give too much away. I hate reviews that get too spoilery.

[Frontier]

Just from the previews I always got the sense that something was off about the writing and characterization, but that's probably because I've read a lot of the comics it's citing and not quite getting the context and events of them right.