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  1. #751
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOCTPHOENIX View Post
    Question. Did Fitzmartin write the Dean and Castiel thing in the final season?
    No, she only did 2 episodes, one with one of the main writers the other was a time travel mystery, I e, flashbacks, where Dean and Sam had to fight a monster as kids, and then in the present had to solve a murder connected to it.

    That was on other writers.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Thing is Steph and Tim have a lot of MJ and Peter energy to them.
    See, I guess why this is why I don't have much of a problem with it. I've never really considered Pete and Mary Jane one of those iconic couples, either.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  3. #753
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    See, I guess why this is why I don't have much of a problem with it. I've never really considered Pete and Mary Jane one of those iconic couples, either.
    I think it's fine if they're not your preference but I think objectively Peter and MJ are pretty up there as far as significant and recognizable comic book couples.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's fine if they're not your preference but I think objectively Peter and MJ are pretty up there as far as significant and recognizable comic book couples.
    Honestly, it's not even my preference. It's just I've honestly never seen it that way. I don't think I particularly have a preference, really.

    The only two really iconic superhero couples I can think of off the top of my head are Superman and Lois and Reed and Sue. Bats and Selina aren't even up there for me.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Honestly, it's not even my preference. It's just I've honestly never seen it that way. I don't think I particularly have a preference, really.

    The only two really iconic superhero couples I can think of off the top of my head are Superman and Lois and Reed and Sue. Bats and Selina aren't even up there for me.
    That is because outside of comics whose relationships have we seen showcased the most?

    Superman & Lois and Reed & Sue.

    Excluding Spider-Man 90s series how many times have we seen married Peter & MJ onscreen versus being mentioned?

    We have seen Bats & Selina flirt way too much.

    We have see the first two as MARRIED folks.

    Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher's show and the second FF movie and almost every tv series had Reed & Sue married.


    Comic book universe readers

    Peter & MJ
    BP & Storm
    Bats & Selina
    Rouge & Gambit
    Luke & Jessica
    Scott & Jean
    Wally & Linda
    Aquaman & Mera
    Always REFERENCED but never shown Bumblebee & Herald.

    We got books with them married.

  6. #756
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    Luke & Jess and Scott & Jean are pretty much the only other one's I agree with on that list, tbh. Admittedly, I included the Luke & Jess pairing just because I liked it.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 06-24-2022 at 11:33 AM.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  7. #757
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Luke & Jess and Scott & Jean are pretty much the only other one's I agree with on that list, tbh. Admittedly, I included the Luke & Jess pairing just because I liked it.
    Okay look at it this way. If Marvel decided that Luke was Bi and had him dating Danny Rand suddenly or a random old friend of his from the 60s and ghosting Jessica and then having her be okay with the sudden split up, would you be okay with how that was protrayed?

  8. #758
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Honestly, it's not even my preference. It's just I've honestly never seen it that way. I don't think I particularly have a preference, really.

    The only two really iconic superhero couples I can think of off the top of my head are Superman and Lois and Reed and Sue. Bats and Selina aren't even up there for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is because outside of comics whose relationships have we seen showcased the most?

    Superman & Lois and Reed & Sue.

    Excluding Spider-Man 90s series how many times have we seen married Peter & MJ onscreen versus being mentioned?

    We have seen Bats & Selina flirt way too much.

    We have see the first two as MARRIED folks.

    Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher's show and the second FF movie and almost every tv series had Reed & Sue married.


    Comic book universe readers

    Peter & MJ
    BP & Storm
    Bats & Selina
    Rouge & Gambit
    Luke & Jessica
    Scott & Jean
    Wally & Linda
    Aquaman & Mera
    Always REFERENCED but never shown Bumblebee & Herald.

    We got books with them married.
    I mean, I can name a dozen adaptions that have had Peter and MJ together or had her as the main love interest (or a variant of her like Zendaya), same with Bruce and Selina.

    Even if they're not married they're usually the relationship people associate the characters with the most which to me means it's iconic.

  9. #759
    Fantastic Member paulojrmam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOCTPHOENIX View Post
    Bernard was barely a friend. He was just a casual friend who appeared for SIX issues, thirsted over Tim's mom and his last appearance had him telling a supervillain where Tim lives. He and Tim were never really close. Tim seemed pretty annoyed with him a lot.

    I can't believe he would like Bernard more than her and so quickly as we never see or are shown why he likes Bernard so much or what their dynamic is or what Tim even finds appealing about him at all. Especially since this was the status of Tim and Steph's relationship for the last 5 years:

    This recent breakup came after the past few years was spent on strengthening their relationship and showing how much they mean to each other and leaving them in a good place. For example in Bendis YJ, he said he was in a very intense relatonship with her that was life changing, and it all he could think about when stranded in an alternate universe and she was his main motivation to get home. He also treated an alternate Stephanie with the same love and tenderness he would his Steph and leaving that alternate Stephanie was not easy even if she was not the one he knew based on the longing look they shared at the end. Both Tim and Stephanie after realizing that they were in each other's repressed memories declared they loved each other and madly so. Even after having the timeline changed, they still found each other again which is why they had love at first sight in Batman Eternal. Hell in DC Rebirth Tim and Stephanie's love for each other was a reason Mr. Oz saw him as a threat to the changes he and Dr.Manhattan made and why he kidnapped him. Their love for each other transcends dimensions and timelines.

    This is why breaking them up of so panel and Tim jumping on to Bernard so quickly feels rushed and hard to buy.
    Thanks for the write up. Wow now I see how shitty DC did this. It's like it was a VERY last time decision thing! Like they suddenly decided on this with no thinking and no preparation, no anything. Preferred to make a mess to fix after than to be thoughtful. It's impossible to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    And Tim had two better choices: Cullen Rowe who seems to have a thing for him, mentioning he is a fan of Supernatural (she wrote for the show), nice guy and sweet. Yeah he's dating Biff of the Royal Flush gang, but that will not last. And there's already Cullen in various other Bat media.

    The other one is Danny Temple, Kid Kobra, heir to the Kobra line. He, was one of Tim's neighbors in school. A good guy all around, knows Tim's identity and also has skills that align with how he got raised, but he's a kind sweetheart who Tim saved and in turn saved Tim. They were close and he, Danny was supposed to have a a book of his own at one point. On top of that there was way more chemistry between Danny and Tim than Bernard and Tim. And it would make more sense with the greeting.

    If we have Tim dating guys in the Bat sphere than either of these would be good and better than Bernard.
    Yeah, why this Bernard guy? Your choices are all better indeed. I prefer heroes to date heroes, this way both parts can get page time. They could also pair up Tim with Bunker, Miguel Barragan. I mean, they were together in Teen Titans and Bunker's an established gay character already.

  10. #760
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulojrmam View Post
    Thanks for the write up. Wow now I see how shitty DC did this. It's like it was a VERY last time decision thing! Like they suddenly decided on this with no thinking and no preparation, no anything. Preferred to make a mess to fix after than to be thoughtful. It's impossible to understand.

    Yeah, why this Bernard guy? Your choices are all better indeed. I prefer heroes to date heroes, this way both parts can get page time. They could also pair up Tim with Bunker, Miguel Barragan. I mean, they were together in Teen Titans and Bunker's an established gay character already.
    Bunker or Airwave (Hal Jordan's nephew), the latter is either gay or bi himself, and wanted to be trained by Hal but he said go talk to a Robin. So why not follow up with that. And Bunker would have been an interesting choice given their history and Tim is the sort that would connect with him.

    If Milestone is still connected to DC, and I think it is, then Richie Foley would be a good choice too, and he already knows about the dangers of hanging out with heroes given his connection to, Virgil (Static).

  11. #761
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulojrmam View Post
    Thanks for the write up. Wow now I see how shitty DC did this. It's like it was a VERY last time decision thing! Like they suddenly decided on this with no thinking and no preparation, no anything. Preferred to make a mess to fix after than to be thoughtful. It's impossible to understand.
    DC didn't even know. The creative team, at least I think up until the book editor, pitched and approved it, then send it to print while the higher ups were in a meeting. They only found out when they got back and the book's already on print. The team got reprimanded, though the higher up approve, they wish they told them first. It was likely the reason why the follow up story took so long and got delayed to Christmas. I think the team said the next story was supposed to be immediate.

    As for how long the creative team thought about Bernard, I have no idea. Tynion, the head Bat writer at the time, only said he had plans for every member of the family, but that could also only mean that he's assigning Tim to Urban Legends, with the detail up to the creative team in charge. (He hinted in his tweet after he left DC that something happened that would make his teen self really happy)

    If they're rushing the pitch and it only goes as far as Batman family editorial, it's likely they won't be able to get Bunker (or Conner for that matter) if they're under different editorial. Conner definitely, Bunker I don't know who's in charge of him now. Tim and Bunker used to be under the Young Justice (New 52) editorial.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    DC didn't even know. The creative team, at least I think up until the book editor, pitched and approved it, then send it to print while the higher ups were in a meeting. They only found out when they got back and the book's already on print. The team got reprimanded, though the higher up approve, they wish they told them first. It was likely the reason why the follow up story took so long and got delayed to Christmas. I think the team said the next story was supposed to be immediate.

    As for how long the creative team thought about Bernard, I have no idea. Tynion, the head Bat writer at the time, only said he had plans for every member of the family, but that could also only mean that he's assigning Tim to Urban Legends, with the detail up to the creative team in charge. (He hinted in his tweet after he left DC that something happened that would make his teen self really happy)

    If they're rushing the pitch and it only goes as far as Batman family editorial, it's likely they won't be able to get Bunker (or Conner for that matter) if they're under different editorial. Conner definitely, Bunker I don't know who's in charge of him now. Tim and Bunker used to be under the Young Justice (New 52) editorial.

    I am 100 percent certain Fitzmartin picked Bernard because A: He's a white blonde boy and she knew twitter/tumblr would go gaga for him and B: She was part of the fanfiction circles at the time of Bernard's introduction that paired him with Tim if they didn't use Connor. The very notion of pairing him with Tim is rooted in that.

  13. #763
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    DC didn't even know. The creative team, at least I think up until the book editor, pitched and approved it, then send it to print while the higher ups were in a meeting. They only found out when they got back and the book's already on print. The team got reprimanded, though the higher up approve, they wish they told them first. It was likely the reason why the follow up story took so long and got delayed to Christmas. I think the team said the next story was supposed to be immediate.

    As for how long the creative team thought about Bernard, I have no idea. Tynion, the head Bat writer at the time, only said he had plans for every member of the family, but that could also only mean that he's assigning Tim to Urban Legends, with the detail up to the creative team in charge. (He hinted in his tweet after he left DC that something happened that would make his teen self really happy)

    If they're rushing the pitch and it only goes as far as Batman family editorial, it's likely they won't be able to get Bunker (or Conner for that matter) if they're under different editorial. Conner definitely, Bunker I don't know who's in charge of him now. Tim and Bunker used to be under the Young Justice (New 52) editorial.
    Bunker was in Teen Titans Academy, so he's in the control of whoever edited that.

    EDIT: Chris Rosa, who's in charge of Flash, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Wonder Woman and Teen Titans.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Chris_Rosa/Editor
    Last edited by Digifiend; 06-25-2022 at 05:47 AM.
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  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Okay look at it this way. If Marvel decided that Luke was Bi and had him dating Danny Rand suddenly or a random old friend of his from the 60s and ghosting Jessica and then having her be okay with the sudden split up, would you be okay with how that was protrayed?
    I mean, honestly, it doesn't sound that far fetched since this is something that's happened irl, too.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I can name a dozen adaptions that have had Peter and MJ together or had her as the main love interest (or a variant of her like Zendaya), same with Bruce and Selina.
    Okay. If that makes them iconic to you and others, that's great. I'm not sure why that should affect my opinion, though. *shrugs*
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

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