Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2022

[Aahz]

Don't count on it. Jon only inherited the Superman book, Clark's still the star of Action Comics. They could either do the same with Tim (he gets Batman, Bruce keeps Detective), or he could just be a satellite book like Jace's is.

I kind of expect that Clark will get the main Superman book back sooner than later.

[Venomized-spider-man]

I kind of expect that Clark will get the main Superman book back sooner than later.

coming how despite being unsupported AC is doing better then SSOKE it most likely the case after the Warworld event & Dark Crisis rebooting things (titles not universe)

Right now with how many other bat-character running around that in the fans eye higher in the "inheritance hierarchy" even having two Batman it just doesn't make sense for Tim to inherit the cowl. Like wasn't the reason why he immediately recognize the teen titans JL were evil because he said if he ever became batman he'll lose his mind

[Restingvoice]

That timeline can't quite be right. I mean, there are pitch meetings and discussions, story outlines and then scripts gets approved, then art start trickling in as pages are finished, usually every day, then pages have to go on to coloring and lettering, there is a final proof apparently called something like "lettering proof," regular books have to have cover art and that needs to be cropped and logos put in place and colored, ad pages need to be placed... in the case of Urban Legends, the table of contents listing the stories has to be composed. The story sequence in the book has to be planned. Two months in advance, the solicit was released and DC Connect published. So well before then, DC Connect was put together as a PDF, and well before then, the solicit text would have been composed to turn over to the people putting DC Connect and the online solicits together. So I would say the solicit text was written a month before it appeared in print, which is two months before the book got published. Very long lead time.

The solicit for the first Tim Drake story reads "TIM DRAKE has returned to the streets of Gotham City and is seeking a new purpose, but what he finds is a string of young adult kidnappings committed by someone known only as “the Chaos Monster.” Will Tim be able to get to the root of the kidnappings, or will he fall prey to them? Critically acclaimed Future State Robin Eternal writer Meghan Fitzmartin returns to tell this Tim Drake story with rising star artist Belén Ortega."

So that much was all known many months before Urban Legends #4 hit the stands. It doesn't mention Bernard, but it's the same story that was finally released.

There are a few dozen opportunities to review a story over a period of months, so the idea that higher ups were in a meeting - well, maybe if the meeting lasted for several months!

I did also hear, though, that Fitzmartin pitched it and the editors liked the idea, and that no one ran the story beyond higher-ups. Could that have happened when DiDio was micromanaging and Bob Harras EIC was also around? Maybe Marie Javins doesn't want to be bothered with too many details. And I don't think Jim Lee gets involved in much of anything. But perhaps there's been a lot of politics going on about this and we don't know most of the story. And no writer that wants to keep getting work from DC is ever going to say a word that they weren't allowed or told to say.

Didn't realize there's a reply, but the thing the higher up didn't know was Tim liking a guy.

The gist of the stories they probably already knew, but they left out that Tim asking a guy on a date would be the conclusion. The story ran for 4 months, and the preparation at least a couple of months before that, and even during the first parts, people online aren't sure if they're really gonna go that route. Most of the stories are about kidnapping and finding identity, with only the last page being the reveal, so they could've pitched the conclusion as something else.

Didio I don't know. I know Tom King runs his scenes through him and they talk by phone. King told Didio he was about to shoot Dick before the Nightwing authors, but I don't know if he does this with every books.

[Digifiend]

I kind of expect that Clark will get the main Superman book back sooner than later.

Considering the Son of Kal-El subtitle, they don't even need to remove Jon to give Clark his second book back, SOKE would just become a tertiary book, like Supergirl usually is.

[Frontier]

Considering the Son of Kal-El subtitle, they don't even need to remove Jon to give Clark his second book back, SOKE would just become a tertiary book, like Supergirl usually is.

Although I think they effectively mean it to be the Superman title, at least for now. Not that I think it'll stick.

[ohfellow]

Didn't realize there's a reply, but the thing the higher up didn't know was Tim liking a guy.

The gist of the stories they probably already knew, but they left out that Tim asking a guy on a date would be the conclusion. The story ran for 4 months, and the preparation at least a couple of months before that, and even during the first parts, people online aren't sure if they're really gonna go that route. Most of the stories are about kidnapping and finding identity, with only the last page being the reveal, so they could've pitched the conclusion as something else.

Didio I don't know. I know Tom King runs his scenes through him and they talk by phone. King told Didio he was about to shoot Dick before the Nightwing authors, but I don't know if he does this with every books.

Since DiDio left DC, there's no sense that anyone has been running the ship.

The story is so much about Tim's introspection, everyone asking him what he wants, Tim questioning what he wants - it's hard to imagine them leaving that out when describing the story to editors, because if you remove that stuff, there is nothing really left of the story. It's not just that it's obvious in retrospect - I thought it was obvious in every panel, because it felt very atypical for a Bat family book.

So I wonder what the true deal is. It looks to me like editors wanting to side-step any possible backlash from any part of fandom and laying anything controversial about it at the feet of the freelancer, who is in no position to contradict them.

Just like Tom King is held responsible for the wedding, for Dick/Ric, for Alfred, for Wally, when in every case it was mostly editorial calling the shots. King has enough power that he can get at least some of an alternate side of the story out there, but Fitzmartin can only say how wonderful and perfect editorial was. So if that's what they want it to be, it becomes "myth" that editorial was in the dark. That way editorial has no responsibility either way, taking neither praise nor blame, really. They can just say "well this is the new status quo."

[Restingvoice]

Since DiDio left DC, there's no sense that anyone has been running the ship.

The story is so much about Tim's introspection, everyone asking him what he wants, Tim questioning what he wants - it's hard to imagine them leaving that out when describing the story to editors, because if you remove that stuff, there is nothing really left of the story. It's not just that it's obvious in retrospect - I thought it was obvious in every panel, because it felt very atypical for a Bat family book.

So I wonder what the true deal is. It looks to me like editors wanting to side-step any possible backlash from any part of fandom and laying anything controversial about it at the feet of the freelancer, who is in no position to contradict them.

Just like Tom King is held responsible for the wedding, for Dick/Ric, for Alfred, for Wally, when in every case it was mostly editorial calling the shots. King has enough power that he can get at least some of an alternate side of the story out there, but Fitzmartin can only say how wonderful and perfect editorial was. So if that's what they want it to be, it becomes "myth" that editorial was in the dark. That way editorial has no responsibility either way, taking neither praise nor blame, really. They can just say "well this is the new status quo."

In King's case it's mostly the fans are unaware. King himself said that Alfred's death is Didio's idea, Dick's fate was left to Didio and editorial (he and Percy before the amnesia plot was decided had different ideas), only Wally he claimed, because he is the writer, but he also mentioned that he's only given the option of Harley, Booster, and Wally from editorial. Of course, if the speculation is editorial bad, King with his friendly relation with Didio can speak more honestly compared to a new writer like Fitzmartin

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Today is the anniversary of when Tim and Steph first met:

BRICK 1.jpg

BRICK 2.jpg

[Frontier]

Today is the anniversary of when Tim and Steph first met:

BRICK 1.jpg

BRICK 2.jpg

(Sigh) Meet Cute Nostalgia...

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I was wondering based on stuff like social media reactions and such how popular would say Timber is so far?

[Restingvoice]

Social media only buzz off there's something new in canon, like, every wednesday, or if there are some news and solicitations. Interviews are limited to hardcore fans who follow it.

Other than that, since there isn't really much to talk about Bern, Tim gets most of the buzz with the new series and the current Young Justice mini. The Bern side of the content would come mainly from fanfic or fan art creators, since there isn't much from canon.

I know one fan artist that has been producing Tim Bern fan comic regularly since the first arc was published, and they've been the main source of coping for fans of the pairing since canon made them wait half a year every time.

[ZuLuLu]

I was wondering based on stuff like social media reactions and such how popular would say Timber is so far?

It is a bit to early to tell since there have not been much of him in cannon. However, social media seem open to the idea.

Bernard is benefiting from being a old character so even with the changes he have gone under with his reintroduction, fan fic writers have ideas that they can play with. Also, some talented artist and writers like the ship so they have more or less help create a small fandom for the ship.

Images of the pair get thousands of likes on Twitter and Tumblr and AO3 have over 300 stories with the pairing just comparing Steph/Tim have over 1100 and Jon/Jay have about 56. For a couple that don't have much in canon that's not bad.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

It is a bit to early to tell since there have not been much of him in cannon. However, social media seem open to the idea.

Bernard is benefiting from being a old character so even with the changes he have gone under with his reintroduction, fan fic writers have ideas that they can play with. Also, some talented artist and writers like the ship so they have more or less help create a small fandom for the ship.

Images of the pair get thousands of likes on Twitter and Tumblr and AO3 have over 300 stories with the pairing just comparing Steph/Tim have over 1100 and Jon/Jay have about 56. For a couple that don't have much in canon that's not bad.

Yeah I don't really care what AO3 thinks as Tim/Jay is super popular there.

But why the hell do people like it so much when it barely exist? As an "old character" he barely had a personality and was for SIX issues spanning 16 pages. The most memorable thing about him was thirsting over Tim's mom. Hell it's even implied Tim only liked him casually at best as they barely hung out and in two of their interactions he annoyed Tim and Tim snarked at him. In his last appearance he told Tim where a supervillain lived. People with more character and chemistry with Tim like Tam barely got a thing.

Yet they get this:

https://twitter.com/AdamLeo85090726/...83134167846913

I swear it must be because they are two white pretty boys and we all know how twitter/tumblr fawns over that. That's why they seem a-okay with Tim being an asshat to Steph.....

Tell me how popular Jon/Jay is compared to it or was when they barely started out and this will confirm my theory.

Is it more popular than Timsteph (hope not......)

Also where was social media being so open to Duke Thomas being Robin before DC got cold feet and scrapped that?

[Konja7]

In King's case it's mostly the fans are unaware. King himself said that Alfred's death is Didio's idea, Dick's fate was left to Didio and editorial (he and Percy before the amnesia plot was decided had different ideas), only Wally he claimed, because he is the writer, but he also mentioned that he's only given the option of Harley, Booster, and Wally from editorial. Of course, if the speculation is editorial bad, King with his friendly relation with Didio can speak more honestly compared to a new writer like Fitzmartin

Regardless the killer in Heroes in Crisis, I don't think King has said his only options were Harley, Booster and Wally. He said that he was given options for the killer and he chose Wally, but he did not specify what the other options were.

I think editorial imposed Harley and Booster as protagonists of the story.

[dietrich]

Yeah I don't really care what AO3 thinks as Tim/Jay is super popular there.

But why the hell do people like it so much when it barely exist? As an "old character" he barely had a personality and was for SIX issues spanning 16 pages. The most memorable thing about him was thirsting over Tim's mom. Hell it's even implied Tim only liked him casually at best as they barely hung out and in two of their interactions he annoyed Tim and Tim snarked at him. In his last appearance he told Tim where a supervillain lived. People with more character and chemistry with Tim like Tam barely got a thing.

Yet they get this:

https://twitter.com/AdamLeo85090726/...83134167846913

I swear it must be because they are two white pretty boys and we all know how twitter/tumblr fawns over that. That's why they seem a-okay with Tim being an asshat to Steph.....

Tell me how popular Jon/Jay is compared to it or was when they barely started out and this will confirm my theory.

Is it more popular than Timsteph (hope not......)

Also where was social media being so open to Duke Thomas being Robin before DC got cold feet and scrapped that?

The fact that bernard is so generic and a blank slate IS a big reason why he has been embraced so much. Much like Tim he is easy for the average regular person to project onto.

fics are usually a way to express desires, worries and wishful thinking [escape] so you can see why Bernard is used.

There's currently a lot of social focus and discuss around sexuality. It's the current buzz topic. Not to mention the sudden popularity of m/m fetish.

Why do the straights like to fetishize us? I don't know but it's not cool and just another form of othering.

Dude you'll just have to deal with it. Tim is bi, even if Timber wasn't popular DC's not about to go back on that. The best thing for Steph is for her to distance herself from Tim. Be her own character.

Most of the discuss about her are Tim related and that is a bad thing.

Why wasn't there this kind of buzz about Duke? Because people and companies are a lot more racist than they are transphobic or people care more about sexuality and are uninterested in colour/race.

DC had a POC Robin for years and hardly advertised that because they don't see the value in it compare how they advertised their LGbtq Robin to the lack of similar for their People of colour Robins. Where were their newspaper advertisements [though I like the fact that Damian didn't get that since it's makes him less of a gimmick. He is a character first not a skin tone. His diversity status isn't a marketing strategy or a
dubious selling point to be advertising and sold like snake oil]

It's rainbow capitalism and boy love being popular right now. Sorry.