Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2022

[WebLurker]

[QUOTE=NOCTPHOENIX;6258059]The thing is Tim with adaptions they have to be good or meaningful for it to take root and by themselves don't guarantee anything. Again with Olicity despite it being in the medium that most people know Green Arrow from, it didn't overshadow DinahOllie and Smallville also didn't have DinahOllie and yet DinahOllie still prevails.

I do get that it's not a given that it'll impact anything further. Only time will tell. I just wonder if it's significant that they're using Bernard in the first place instead of Steph, given her having the longer history and being depicted as "the one" in the past.

The Bernard stuff again is more for the sake of Bi Tim rather than himself as he barely does anything in GK or WFA and in Titans is an OC.

Guess the question remains if that's enough for it to stay or not.

(Forget: what's "GK"?)

Also DC previously thought Steph was repleacable via killing her off and erasing her from existence yet she still came back.

Steph has proven to be popular beyond just being Tim's girlfriend. I mean, even if Bernard (or someone else) completely replaced her as Tim's "one true love" (a la Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson), I'd be pretty sure that she'd still hang around as another one of the Batgirls (one of her defining traits, after all). It's not nothing (the Tim/Steph ship was brought back, too), but I don't think the two are one and the same.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

[QUOTE=WebLurker;6259342]

The thing is Tim with adaptions they have to be good or meaningful for it to take root and by themselves don't guarantee anything. Again with Olicity despite it being in the medium that most people know Green Arrow from, it didn't overshadow DinahOllie and Smallville also didn't have DinahOllie and yet DinahOllie still prevails.

I do get that it's not a given that it'll impact anything further. Only time will tell. I just wonder if it's significant that they're using Bernard in the first place instead of Steph, given her having the longer history and being depicted as "the one" in the past.



Guess the question remains if that's enough for it to stay or not.

(Forget: what's "GK"?)



Steph has proven to be popular beyond just being Tim's girlfriend. I mean, even if Bernard (or someone else) completely replaced her as Tim's "one true love" (a la Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson), I'd be pretty sure that she'd still hang around as another one of the Batgirls (one of her defining traits, after all). It's not nothing (the Tim/Steph ship was brought back, too), but I don't think the two are one and the same.

Like I said Bernard is used to show off Bi Tim mainly.

And with the stuff even when killed off and erased and replaced relationship wise as well, her relationship with Tim still came back,

[Aahz]

The Bernard stuff again is more for the sake of Bi Tim rather than himself as he barely does anything in GK or WFA and in Titans is an OC.

He is a support character, so of course he is just there for Tim's sake.

Apparat from Tam Fox any of Tim's other civilian fiends and love interest also didn't really do much.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

He is a support character, so of course he is just there for Tim's sake.

Apparat from Tam Fox any of Tim's other civilian fiends and love interest also didn't really do much.

Tam Fox was really good and I HATE how DC treated her and how people didn't bat as hard for her as they do Bernard as she was 10x the character he is so far.

[Frontier]

Bernard really cementing himself as the token gay love interest whose only there so they can emphasize Tim as LGBT+...

[NOCTPHOENIX]

This article is annoying:

https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/11/10/t...medium=twitter

A lot of the "evidence and subtext" for Bernard is just reaching.

[WebLurker]

This article is annoying:

https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/11/10/t...medium=twitter

A lot of the "evidence and subtext" for Bernard is just reaching.

It's just the opinion of the writer in question. It's interesting theorizing and if he's enjoying the ship, let him. We do that kind of thing all the time here.

I will concede though that it's stuff like this that really makes me suspect that at least some people at DC would like Bernard to be a mainstay and/or the default love interest. Not saying if that's good or bad in and of itself, just an observation.

[Psy-lock]

This article is annoying:

https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/11/10/t...medium=twitter

A lot of the "evidence and subtext" for Bernard is just reaching.

To be fair, there are some TimBer fanfics dating all the way back to 2004 (there's actually a surprising amount of it for such a minor character), so the idea of Bernard being gay is not exactly new.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

To be fair, there are some TimBer fanfics dating all the way back to 2004 (there's actually a surprising amount of it for such a minor character), so the idea of Bernard being gay is not exactly new.

How much was there? From what I've seen it was barely a blip and only in obscure fan circles/shipping circles that shipped EVERYONE. And to be frank they only used him because they thought he would look 'cute' with Tim based on his design alone and it wasn't some mainstream thing that was 'always there'

It's just the opinion of the writer in question. It's interesting theorizing and if he's enjoying the ship, let him. We do that kind of thing all the time here.

I will concede though that it's stuff like this that really makes me suspect that at least some people at DC would like Bernard to be a mainstay and/or the default love interest. Not saying if that's good or bad in and of itself, just an observation.

All of this 'evidence' is basically "he likes girls=so he's secretly gay". And as for the other note I just see it as pushing bi Tim for the moment as this article is still ultimately a fan news one.

[Aahz]

It's just the opinion of the writer in question. It's interesting theorizing and if he's enjoying the ship, let him. We do that kind of thing all the time here.

But it is on the offical DC homepage, and that's imo not the place to publish head canon and fan theories.

And it was afaik stated by Berands original creator that he was not intended to be gay, so the writer of this article is really just reading stuff into it.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

But it is on the offical DC homepage, and that's imo not the place to publish head canon and fan theories.

And it was afaik stated by Berands original creator that he was not intended to be gay, so the writer of this article is really just reading stuff into it.

And misreading stuff as well. Like the 'gag' thing was clearly a joke and followed by Bernard threatening to sell Tim to organ harvesters. If we went by the article's logic based on this Bernard is a hidden serial killer. And the whole "warning" about Darla wasn't serious but the article acts like it was. Also it says he went after unobtainable woman, but ignores how Bernard was shown dating a girl in his last appearance........Not to mention some of the stuff is just typical teenage boy stuff. Like crushing on a friend's mom you find hot and the most popular girl in school? That's like 90% of teenage boys and I can't tell you how many guys in my highschool (I was a teenage boy not too long ago) did this and did the stuff Bernard did like calling them goddesses.

Anyway this article really makes me see how DC is leaning into too much on what tumblr/twitter thinks and giving it undue weight.

[Psy-lock]

How much was there? From what I've seen it was barely a blip and only in obscure fan circles/shipping circles that shipped EVERYONE. And to be frank they only used him because they thought he would look 'cute' with Tim based on his design alone and it wasn't some mainstream thing that was 'always there'

I didn't say it was a mainstream idea, just that it wasn't invented by Fitzmartin, and the writer of the article isn't the first to read Bernard's prior appearances as evidence.

And it was afaik stated by Berands original creator that he was not intended to be gay, so the writer of this article is really just reading stuff into it.

Not anymore, since this fanon idea retroactively became canon. Whether the original writer intended him to be gay or not is irrelevant. The character is owned by DC and can be whatever DC decides him to be.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I didn't say it was a mainstream idea, just that it wasn't invented by Fitzmartin, and the writer of the article isn't the first to read Bernard's prior appearances as evidence.



Not anymore, since this fanon idea retroactively became canon. Whether the original writer intended him to be gay or not is irrelevant. The character is owned by DC and can be whatever DC decides him to be.

Yeah true but the article is acting like it was and how it so obvious when it really wasn't. Again the people involved were in obscure fanfic/shipping circles who USE anything to justify ships and it's clear Fitzmartin came from that angle.

[ChangingStation]

He is a support character, so of course he is just there for Tim's sake.

Apparat from Tam Fox any of Tim's other civilian fiends and love interest also didn't really do much.

I mean... Arianna, his first official love interest, wound up cheating on him by going on a date with someone else, because he kept bailing on her, got guilty enough to try to confess, dyed her hair blonde after seeing Tim eye Steph at a funeral, almost get sexually assaulted before escaping, and tried to get Tim to sleep with her as a coping mechanism. And that's not counting her family barring the two from seeing one another, or her various examples of showing other bits of characterisation.

She may have been there for Tim's sake, but it's not like she was berefit of characterisation or focus when Tim wasn't there.

[Frontier]

It's weird that a character I never even heard about until recently got more traction than I would have ever thought possible despite how they appear to have been such a minor character.

You just can't predict comics sometimes.

I mean... Arianna, his first official love interest, wound up cheating on him by going on a date with someone else, because he kept bailing on her, got guilty enough to try to confess, dyed her hair blonde after seeing Tim eye Steph at a funeral, almost get sexually assaulted before escaping, and tried to get Tim to sleep with her as a coping mechanism. And that's not counting her family barring the two from seeing one another, or her various examples of showing other bits of characterisation.

She may have been there for Tim's sake, but it's not like she was berefit of characterisation or focus when Tim wasn't there.

Poor girl had been through a lot!