Justice League International Appreciation 2022

[Frontier]

I am still can't forgave Winnick for the unnecesary retcon on Ice origin.

Was that another one or the main Ice origin retcon that people hate?

[SJNeal]

I am still can't forgave Winnick for the unnecesary retcon on Ice origin.

I'm sure we'll have a new development/retcon to hate once Tom King's done with her. Be patient...

[SJNeal]

Was that another one or the main Ice origin retcon that people hate?

It's the Winick retcon (most) people hate.

[silly]

I am still can't forgave Winnick for the unnecesary retcon on Ice origin.

That I did not follow. What did Winnick do?

[Nomads1]

That I did not follow. What did Winnick do?

AS far as we knew then, Ice had come from a race of ancient northern ice dieties, who decided to join the Global Guardians and be a part of our own current day society. We had gone as far as see the JLA meet her people in the 90's (Such meeting is collected in Wonder Woman and the Justice League Vol. 01). Winnick decided that this story was all a lie that Ice told herself to forget that she was a sort of mutant from a Gypsy crime family, whose father hid her from her grandfather, which was the family's crime lord. In trying to escape from her grandfather, Tora lost control of her powers and killed her whole family. So, Winnick effectively transformed on of the League's most hopeful and innocent characters into Killer Frost.
I love Generation Lost, but I've always hated Winnick's work. I've always found him to be what I call a "shock value writer", a writer who doesn't care if what he is writing makes sense or not, is faithful to the character or not, as long as he gets to shock his audience. I think he stuck a lot with what Giffen plotted for JLGL, which explains my fondness for the series, other than LOVING the characters, of course, but I'm sure that retcon is all Winnick.

Peace

[Frontier]

AS far as we knew then, Ice had come from a race of ancient northern ice dieties, who decided to join the Global Guardians and be a part of our own current day society. We had gone as far as see the JLA meet her people in the 90's (Such meeting is collected in Wonder Woman and the Justice League Vol. 01). Winnick decided that this story was all a lie that Ice told herself to forget that she was a sort of mutant from a Gypsy crime family, whose father hid her from her grandfather, which was the family's crime lord. In trying to escape from her grandfather, Tora lost control of her powers and killed her whole family. So, Winnick effectively transformed on of the League's most hopeful and innocent characters into Killer Frost.
I love Generation Lost, but I've always hated Winnick's work. I've always found him to be what I call a "shock value writer", a writer who doesn't care if what he is writing makes sense or not, is faithful to the character or not, as long as he gets to shock his audience. I think he stuck a lot with what Giffen plotted for JLGL, which explains my fondness for the series, other than LOVING the characters, of course, but I'm sure that retcon is all Winnick.

Peace

That...sounds so unnecessarily dark.

[SJNeal]

I love Generation Lost, but I've always hated Winnick's work. I've always found him to be what I call a "shock value writer", a writer who doesn't care if what he is writing makes sense or not, is faithful to the character or not, as long as he gets to shock his audience. I think he stuck a lot with what Giffen plotted for JLGL, which explains my fondness for the series, other than LOVING the characters, of course, but I'm sure that retcon is all Winnick.

Peace

Interesting take... I'd love to hear how you feel about Cates and Aaron...

While not by favorite writer in the least, Winick's had more hits than misses for me over the years.

[Thor-Ul]

I'm sure we'll have a new development/retcon to hate once Tom King's done with her. Be patient...

Black olabel books are non canon, elseworlds tales. I don't sweat over them.

[achilles]

AS far as we knew then, Ice had come from a race of ancient northern ice dieties, who decided to join the Global Guardians and be a part of our own current day society. We had gone as far as see the JLA meet her people in the 90's (Such meeting is collected in Wonder Woman and the Justice League Vol. 01). Winnick decided that this story was all a lie that Ice told herself to forget that she was a sort of mutant from a Gypsy crime family, whose father hid her from her grandfather, which was the family's crime lord. In trying to escape from her grandfather, Tora lost control of her powers and killed her whole family. So, Winnick effectively transformed on of the League's most hopeful and innocent characters into Killer Frost.
I love Generation Lost, but I've always hated Winnick's work. I've always found him to be what I call a "shock value writer", a writer who doesn't care if what he is writing makes sense or not, is faithful to the character or not, as long as he gets to shock his audience. I think he stuck a lot with what Giffen plotted for JLGL, which explains my fondness for the series, other than LOVING the characters, of course, but I'm sure that retcon is all Winnick.

Peace

Oh dear, that was him, then? I had forgotten the name behind that little gem.

[married guy]

AS far as we knew then, Ice had come from a race of ancient northern ice dieties, who decided to join the Global Guardians and be a part of our own current day society. We had gone as far as see the JLA meet her people in the 90's (Such meeting is collected in Wonder Woman and the Justice League Vol. 01). Winnick decided that this story was all a lie that Ice told herself to forget that she was a sort of mutant from a Gypsy crime family, whose father hid her from her grandfather, which was the family's crime lord. In trying to escape from her grandfather, Tora lost control of her powers and killed her whole family. So, Winnick effectively transformed on of the League's most hopeful and innocent characters into Killer Frost.
I love Generation Lost, but I've always hated Winnick's work. I've always found him to be what I call a "shock value writer", a writer who doesn't care if what he is writing makes sense or not, is faithful to the character or not, as long as he gets to shock his audience. I think he stuck a lot with what Giffen plotted for JLGL, which explains my fondness for the series, other than LOVING the characters, of course, but I'm sure that retcon is all Winnick.

Peace

Yeah, fair enough that's bloody awful.

That said, I've found Winick's DC stuff on the whole pretty damn good.
His GL was enjoyable and other than his first arc, his GA was top notch.

[AJpyro]

In happier news, I managed to get all the recent made physical trades. Imma purchase the rest in digital format.

[Frontier]

In happier news, I managed to get all the recent made physical trades. Imma purchase the rest in digital format.

Congratulations .

[Nomads1]

Interesting take... I'd love to hear how you feel about Cates and Aaron...

While not by favorite writer in the least, Winick's had more hits than misses for me over the years.

Haven't read much Cates. Definitely not an Aaron fan. Mostly, he BORES me to death. Really pretentious writing.

As for Winnick, at the time, when Bendis was ruining Avengers for me, he was, for me DC's Bendis. I cringed whenever he got his hands on a character I liked (which, sadly, was often). Take the Outsiders, for instance. I know a lot of people liked it, however, it started with the terrible Graduation Day (editorial mandate, I know, still, he handled, and, IMHO, terribly, the execution, in which a precog dies because she is caught by surprise and a heroine as powerful and skilled as Wonder Woman gets killed by a robot, even if it was a super-robot), and in the first issues Winnick already showed that he didn't understand heroic characters and was all about being "edgy" and shock. First of all, I really didn't like the new characters he introduced Grace was a generic foul mouthed strong woman and Thunder was annoying, preachy and boring (and I'm not going to get into how her creation reflected badly on Jefferson Pierce). Shift was a VERY watereddown version of Metamorpho, which is a character I really like and Winnick didn't even handle the real one properly when he got his hands on him. The only one I really liked was Indigo, which Winnick soon killed off. Talk about being wasted. As for how Winnick handled Dick Grayson, one of the truest and most heroic heroes and leaders of the DCU, in the first arc, he has Dick mercilessly beat up Grodd with his sticks while the villainous gorila is helpless, immobilized by Grace, in exchange of information. How edgy, right? So "heroic"! (roll-eyes) I really can't see Dick acting in such a cowardly way. And, right after, Metamorpho induces projectile vomiting on Grodd's gorila army. Wow! Now THAT"s Bendis level edgy and cool! (sorry for the excess of sarcasm.)
Anyway, I never really warmed up to most of what he did. Wasted a lot of good characters in poor storylines, just for "shock-value". I did enjoy JLGL, though, but I "blame" that mostly on Giffen.

Peace

[SJNeal]

Wow, ask and you shall receive... lol

[Nomads1]

Wow, ask and you shall receive... lol

Sorry. Some topics, good and bad, just get me going.

Peace