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  1. #616
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah I won’t reply to all of that lol, we clearly differ a lot on how we read Tomasi work which is fine. An old relationship is invalidated imo if there is a reveal that one person was never really attracted to the other but merely pretending or forcing themselves to be in a relationship. If Jon were gay that means that he was never really into Kathy or Irma, just forcing himself to pretend to be, he could still care for them, but he wasn’t actually romantically interested in them. That’s what I meant by using that word.

    I do think you’re far more idealistic about the nature of corporate boardroom discussions when it comes to stuff like this then I am, I absolutely think “how will the cishets take this” factored into not only who they chose to make LGBT but why they chose the sexuality they did for Jon and Tim. That comes from my own and my gay brother’s experience with corporate “inclusivity” and maybe you’ve been lucky to have had a better experience with these corporates attempts to diversify and be more accepting of LGBT matters.

    And no I couldn’t care less about Steph, she and Tim are low on my list of Batfamily members I care about. Nothing personal towards either (ok maybe I am a little steamed that Tim can’t graduate from Robin and Damian might be losing the title because Tim is the “gifted” kid who can’t seem to amount to anything).
    I mean, short of Dick, whom hasn't Tim replaced as Robin at this point? Really living up to his nickname of "replacement" a little too well. Guy even took Batman not only from Bruce, but Terry as well.

  2. #617
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Man reading the way Williamson writes Jon in Dark Crisis is a breath of fresh air compared to how stale I find Taylor’s handling of him in his solo. It’s still not my ideal Jon but at least there’s an attempt to differentiate him from Clark happening:

    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  3. #618
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah I won’t reply to all of that lol, we clearly differ a lot on how we read Tomasi work which is fine. An old relationship is invalidated imo if there is a reveal that one person was never really attracted to the other but merely pretending or forcing themselves to be in a relationship. If Jon were gay that means that he was never really into Kathy or Irma, just forcing himself to pretend to be, he could still care for them, but he wasn’t actually romantically interested in them. That’s what I meant by using that word.

    I do think you’re far more idealistic about the nature of corporate boardroom discussions when it comes to stuff like this then I am, I absolutely think “how will the cishets take this” factored into not only who they chose to make LGBT but why they chose the sexuality they did for Jon and Tim. That comes from my own and my gay brother’s experience with corporate “inclusivity” and maybe you’ve been lucky to have had a better experience with these corporates attempts to diversify and be more accepting of LGBT matters.

    And no I couldn’t care less about Steph, she and Tim are low on my list of Batfamily members I care about. Nothing personal towards either (ok maybe I am a little steamed that Tim can’t graduate from Robin and Damian might be losing the title because Tim is the “gifted” kid who can’t seem to amount to anything).
    I'm starting to think I have different interpretations of basic social interactions than most people and not just different readings of Tomasi's work because the entire time I was reading Superman Rebirth, I was picking up on none of what you laid out and only ever saw Jon and Kathy as nothing more than friends. It wasn't until I started posting here that I even found anyone saying there was something more going on between Jon and Kathy and it just floored me as heteronormative. Kathy was always presented to me as a member of Jon's supporting cast, but never as a love interest. If she was, then so was everyone else Jon was "friends" with.

    I said Steph stan specifically because they pissed themselves over the fact Tim was no longer dating Steph but it was undeniable they did in fact have a relationship in the past and somehow by coming out as queer, that means their entire relationship never actually existed. Like, show me how Meghan Fitzmartin went back in time and stopped every single story featuring Tim and Steph from ever being written because that's how they were acting all in response to someone coming out as queer when there are no other conclusions to draw from that fact.
    And no, I won't shut up about Jon Kent.

  4. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Man reading the way Williamson writes Jon in Dark Crisis is a breath of fresh air compared to how stale I find Taylorís handling of him in his solo. Itís still not my ideal Jon but at least thereís an attempt to differentiate him from Clark happening
    Is it wrong for me to feel a bit satisfying seeing jon was getting handed by cyborg superman only wining because a deus ex-cyborg? I mean with all the articles telling how much Jon iss "the best eva" because he a Bi soft boi i kinda feel vindicated that in an actual situation where taylor pacifist narrative just disintegrates
    Last edited by Venomized-spider-man; 07-06-2022 at 04:22 PM.

  5. #620
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    Garazza, I think it's just people interpreting the kid Jon story through the classic trope of "boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl" etc. It's a staple of North American storytelling to have childhood (cishet) friends fall in love as kids, which progresses into some form of explicit relationship in adulthood. Clark had the same thing with Lana, which is where I think Tomasi was going with it,except for the fact that Kathy was secretly an alien which (to him) was enough to differentiate it from Clark's experiences while still parallelling them. I don't think he ever expected or wrote for the possibility of Jon becoming queer though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venomized-spider-man View Post
    Is it wrong for me to feel a bit satisfying seeing jon was getting handed by cyborg superman only wining because a deus ex-cyborg? I mean with all the articles telling how much Jon iss "the best eva" because he a Bi soft boi i kinda feel vindicated that in an actual situation where taylor pacifist narrative just disintegrates
    Just because he doesn't use his fists means he's a "soft boi"? Or is it because he has a boyfriend?

  6. #621

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monari View Post
    Just because he doesn't use his fists means he's a "soft boi"? Or is it because he has a boyfriend?
    That because they describe him as "the bi boy who don't want hurt nobody" & "I [Taylor] wanted to create a hero who first instinct isn't to punch...he goes with his feelings"

    to quote urban dictionary: A Male Typically described as "cute" & generally has a very "soft" personality (gentle and kind). Differs from the fuckboy because he goes for the heart and emotions rather than just the body

    Adult jon has been mainly characterize (by most of the community & now writers) as the softboi of the super family just as Conner is dub the rebel or the punk

    and no this has nothing to do with him being bi don't use that card

    i just tired that Dc is pushing this character as the messiah of the dc universe despite him not actually accomplishing anything yet
    Last edited by Venomized-spider-man; 07-06-2022 at 06:27 PM.

  7. #622
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I thought the fight with Cyborg Superman was cool, art was great and frankly its interesting that the first time that Jon meets Henshaw is when Jon thinks Clark is dead.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  8. #623

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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I thought the fight with Cyborg Superman was cool, art was great and frankly its interesting that the first time that Jon meets Henshaw is when Jon thinks Clark is dead.
    I do enjoy the remark about him mocking Jon with "I too pretending to be superman when your dad died the first time".

  9. #624
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomized-spider-man View Post
    Is it wrong for me to feel a bit satisfying seeing jon was getting handed by cyborg superman only wining because a deus ex-cyborg? I mean with all the articles telling how much Jon iss "the best eva" because he a Bi soft boi i kinda feel vindicated that in an actual situation where taylor pacifist narrative just disintegrates
    Personally I found the way everyone pivoted from “Jon has been tortured in a volcano for years!” to “Jon’s a nepotism baby who didn’t earn the right to be Superman since he never suffered for it” very funny. I liked that he was very “fuck you” towards Henshaw, that felt way more in line with the characterization Tomasi established.



    Williamson has a much better voice for Jon regardless of how you feel about Dark Crisis in general. Not a fan of Taylor’s soft boi uwu take.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #625
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomized-spider-man View Post
    That because they describe him as "the bi boy who don't want hurt nobody" & "I [Taylor] wanted to create a hero who first instinct isn't to punch...he goes with his feelings"

    to quote urban dictionary: A Male Typically described as "cute" & generally has a very "soft" personality (gentle and kind). Differs from the fuckboy because he goes for the heart and emotions rather than just the body

    Adult jon has been mainly characterize (by most of the community & now writers) as the softboi of the super family just as Conner is dub the rebel or the punk

    and no this has nothing to do with him being bi don't use that card

    i just tired that Dc is pushing this character as the messiah of the dc universe despite him not actually accomplishing anything yet
    Clark ain't a soft boi?he so dumb that he will be getting his ass kicked would still be trying to talk it out..Taylor does same thing(messiah) with jon that he did with clark.You have a problem with that now cause?

    Me i find jon as boring as his dad now.soo,there is no fun..
    "Peopleís Dreams... Have No Ends"

  11. #626
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    So now that I've read the Dark Crisis Superman one-shot in its entirety...it's nice. Didn't love it. Didn't hate it. A bit of an unnecessary downer at times. Think it's kinda weird that Clark's ideal life is seeing Jon be a complete fuck up for four years straight. Like, I get it. He wanted to be there for the bad parts of raising a teenager just as much as he wanted to be there for the good, but the bad times REALLY overshadowed the good up until the very end.

    At least this Jon was going out of his way to not be Clark, so I'll give it that. This is the best that a teenage Jon has EVER been. I just wish it didn't end with him once again wearing Clark's costume. But I'll give it a pass since this was Clark's fantasy.

    Also, I really loved this exchange.


    This whole story just reinforces my belief that Clark should have stayed on earth with Taylor and Jon should have been the one starring in PKJ's book. SoKE has me almost convinced that Taylor really wanted to write Clark.
    Last edited by Blue22; 07-12-2022 at 06:59 PM.

  12. #627

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    I wish Jon's hair was more consistent. He should keep the tiktok bangs.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  13. #628
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    I wish Jon's hair was more consistent. He should keep the tiktok bangs.
    Yeah, see. This hair, even for a fake, I don't think works. Its too Goth kid.



    Plus, as someone with naturally curly hair, I hate it.

    Both the image and my own curls. It is never that neat, unless permed at a stylist, and then it becomes South Park goth kid.

  14. #629
    Mighty Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Jon beating up Cyborg Superman was great!

  15. #630
    Kon-El "The Scion" SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Jon beating up Cyborg Superman was great!

    Jon beating up cyborg superman was dumb, and nobody truly should believe Jon could do it
    Where is my damn Tactile Telekinesis?
    - Conner Kent /kon-el

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