Jon Kent/Superman/Superboy Appreciation 2022

[king81992]

The supporting character being more interesting than the MC isn't that bad tbh, it happens a lot. Even super sons Jon benefitted from having a good supporting cast.



It's kinda sad.



Sometimes that's not a bad thing, Naruto, Sailor Moon, Bloom (winx), etc are all overpowered and boring compared to their supporting characters but the side characters made sticking around to watch the story worth it.

To be fair it took a long time for Naruto and Sailor Moon to become OP and neither of them was boring. Winx Club went downhill after Season 3, so I don't know if Bloom ever became OP. The other girls had much better powersets than her.

[Blue22]

To be fair it took a long time for Naruto and Sailor Moon to become OP and neither of them was boring. Winx Club went downhill after Season 3, so I don't know if Bloom ever became OP. The other girls had much better powersets than her.

Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of Naruto and Usagi but the last things I'd call either of them are boring or lacking in personality. In fact my most recent rewatch of the 90s series has made me appreciate Usagi a lot more....even if I think most of the other senshi are still better.

I don't have a problem with OP protagonists. I have a problem with boring protagonists.

[manwhohaseverything]

Ichigo in the first arc was fairly interesting and had a decent arc, building his relationship with Rukia, dealing with his mother's death, etc. But after that, things kinda went downhill for him in terms of characterization. Not at all helped by the fact that the entire Gotei 13 was infinitely cooler than him and his group of friends. Once the Arancar arc started rolling was when he pretty much amounted to nothing more than a walking deus ex machina whose only purpose was to be that special stoic snowflake who's always needed to save the day.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Bleach (super excited to see it coming back) and I like Ichigo, but he is my absolute least favorite kind of protagonist. He feels like someone trying to recreate Yusuke Urameshi without understanding why Yusuke was such a kickass protagonist.

Ichigo's struggle for power after he lost it and peeling layers of his trueself was interesting for me.
As for others gotei 13 being cooler.None of them would work alone without Ichigo for me.for example,kenpachi and his ignorance of his own zanpakto and by extension his self.He's just a beast driven instinct.Regardless,bleach as an anime as concept and as story very much a needed subject.It was much different than naruto and one piece..

In fact,in contrast i would say naruto turned out to be the worst of the lot..It didn't age well for me..After pain arc,the only thing good was madara and fight between sasuke/naruto..The whole naruto bridge theme and "ninja are not just tools that are being manipulated but people who wrote history in the right or wrong",statement fell flat..Naruto's main point didn't work.Naruto's straight,true path without regrets..it felt unsatisfactory.Then again kishimoto himself said the message was naive..

Then there was fairy tale which i found to be shallow without substance.

Hxh,one piece are best for me..Hxh is an incredibly complex deconstruction.and i do believe,luffy embodies siegel and shuster superman than Superman does.That's just me.And mugen train(demon slayer) is eerly similar to for the man who has everything plotwise.Coincidence ofcourse.

[king81992]

Ichigo's struggle for power after he lost it and peeling layers of his trueself was interesting for me.
As for others gotei 13 being cooler.None of them would work alone without Ichigo for me.for example,kenpachi and his ignorance of his own zanpakto and by extension his self.He's just a beast driven instinct.Regardless,bleach as an anime as concept and as story very much a needed subject.It was much different than naruto and one piece..

In fact,in contrast i would say naruto turned out to be the worst of the lot..It didn't age well for me..After pain arc,the only thing good was madara and fight between sasuke/naruto..The whole naruto bridge theme and "ninja are not just tools that are being manipulated but people who wrote history in the right or wrong",statement fell flat..Naruto's main point didn't work.Naruto's straight,true path without regrets..it felt unsatisfactory.Then again kishimoto himself said the message was naive..

Then there was fairy tale which i found to be shallow without substance.

Hxh,one piece are best for me..Hxh is an incredibly complex deconstruction.and i do believe,luffy embodies siegel and shuster superman than Superman does.That's just me.And mugen train(demon slayer) is eerly similar to for the man who has everything plotwise.Coincidence ofcourse.

Eh, never cared for Madara. I'd argue that the strongest themes of Naruto was that people right or wrong are not tools to be manipulated. The second strongest theme was the dangers of revenge and breaking the cycle of violence.

Fairy Tail was good, but it is Mashima's weakest work. His magnum opus is Rave Master.

I never saw HxH as a deconstruction at all. If Naruto is about the dangers of revenge, HxH is about consequences for the ones seeking it. Kurapika's losing years off his life and Gon lost his power + future potential despite because they wanted (justified) payback.

[OopsIdiditagain]

To be fair it took a long time for Naruto and Sailor Moon to become OP and neither of them was boring. Winx Club went downhill after Season 3, so I don't know if Bloom ever became OP. The other girls had much better powersets than her.

They were ok but I found Ichigo more interesting than both of them. Bloom was the worst character on winx, the other girls powers were cooler but Bloom always had the chosen one thing going for her.

[manwhohaseverything]

Eh, never cared for Madara. I'd argue that the strongest themes of Naruto was that people right or wrong are not tools to be manipulated. The second strongest theme was the dangers of revenge and breaking the cycle of violence.

Fairy Tail was good, but it is Mashima's weakest work. His magnum opus is Rave Master.

I never saw HxH as a deconstruction at all. If Naruto is about the dangers of revenge, HxH is about consequences for the ones seeking it. Kurapika's losing years off his life and Gon lost his power + future potential despite because they wanted (justified) payback.

How did they break cycle of violence?the leaf to protect it's true king(children) can resort to violence, does so to keep power and order.Human beings have things to protect.Building bridges are important.yes.Holding each other accountable and cooperation can ensure to certain extent violence such as the uchiha clan genocide and destruction of rain village by the great nations.But,that doesn't mean talks don't go south many a times.When it does,violence will happen.Accountablity after leaf does something reprehensible like uchiha massacre would be of no use.People can easily ask for shift in system without revenge feuling it.Btw,Leaf didn't kill the uchiha or destroy rain village for the children or their next generation.They did it because their higher ups were corrupt(elders and the likes).Ofcourse naruto magically fixes all this..Yeah! it was half baked.

[king81992]

They were ok but I found Ichigo more interesting than both of them. Bloom was the worst character on winx, the other girls powers were cooler but Bloom always had the chosen one thing going for her.

Musa and her boyfriend were the worst characters in Winx, Bloom was okay.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Musa and her boyfriend were the worst characters in Winx, Bloom was okay.

They had the worst relationship too, borderline abusive but let me not derail this thread. Jon is an ok character but he has no life outside of being superman. Does he have any hopes and dreams outside of trying to save people? Who knows because he wears a cape 24/7. I hope Nia brings out a different side of Jon.

[Konja7]

Sometimes that's not a bad thing, Naruto, Sailor Moon, Bloom (winx), etc are all overpowered and boring compared to their supporting characters but the side characters made sticking around to watch the story worth it.

To be fair, Naruto and Sailor Moon (Usagi) have striking and "unique" personalities. I understand that not everyone likes them and you could prefer the other characters, but you can't say that they are lacking in personality.

Not to mention that Naruto and Sailor Moon are extremely popular character in their respective stories (they are first or second positions in popularity polls). So, the audience doesn't only see or read their stories for other characters.


In Superman Son of Kal-El, Jon's personality is pretty plain and boring. This is one of the reasons why the other characters stand out so much.

[OopsIdiditagain]

To be fair, Naruto and Sailor Moon (Usagi) have striking and "unique" personalities. I understand that not everyone likes them and you could prefer the other characters, but you can't say that they are lacking in personality.

Not to mention that Naruto and Sailor Moon are extremely popular character in their respective stories (they are first or second positions in popularity polls). So, the audience doesn't only see or read their stories for other characters.


In Superman Son of Kal-El, Jon's personality is pretty plain and boring. This is one of the reasons why the other characters stand out so much.

Usagi's personality was being clumsy, kind, and boy crazy. Naruto's personality was being clingy and wanting to prove people wrong. Jon's personality is wanting to help everyone and constantly feeling pressured.

All three characters are boring once you compare them to any other character in their own universes.

[Konja7]

Usagi's personality was being clumsy, kind, and boy crazy. Naruto's personality was being clingy and wanting to prove people wrong. Jon's personality is wanting to help everyone and constantly feeling pressured.

All three characters are boring once you compare them to any other character in their own universes.

Usagi and Naruto still have flashier personalities and behaviour. The idea that they are boring compared to other characters in their own universes is subjetive (For example: I don't feel Ami, Rei, Makoto or Minako have a more interesting personality than Usagi).

Jon's personality is more plain and dull. I remember he has a flashier personality as a kid.

[king81992]

Usagi's personality was being clumsy, kind, and boy crazy. Naruto's personality was being clingy and wanting to prove people wrong. Jon's personality is wanting to help everyone and constantly feeling pressured.

All three characters are boring once you compare them to any other character in their own universes.

Disagree about Naruto and Usagi being boring.

Jon's personality is okay but he hasn't been put in a situation where he can shine or stand out. The supporting cast while good(surprisingly so) doesn't mesh well with Jon's archetype.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Usagi and Naruto still have flashier personalities and behaviour. The idea that they are boring compared to other characters in their own universes is subjetive (For example: I don't feel Ami, Rei, Makoto or Minako have a more interesting personality than Usagi).

Jon's personality is more plain and dull. I remember he has a flashier personality as a kid.

It is definitely subjective. Their supporting cast always had characters who would bring out a different side to the MCs. Naruto had Sasuke, Neji, Gaara, Shikamaru etc as foils. Usagi's friends all had completely different personalities that bounced off of each other to make their characters more dynamic.

I wouldn't like Kid Jon as much without his interactions with Damian

Disagree about Naruto and Usagi being boring.

Jon's personality is okay but he hasn't been put in a situation where he can shine or stand out. The supporting cast while good(surprisingly so) doesn't mesh well with Jon's archetype.

agreed

[manwhohaseverything]

The way i see it naruto is basically a messianic figure,just like modern superman..That has incredible flaws.

[Blue22]

The problem with Jon's personality is that there's really not a definable personality to speak of that don't include traits that he has from his dad. He doesn't really have his own anything. His own archetype, his own style, his own character. He's one of the biggest blank slates I've ever read about, with only the occasional lip service about how pressured/scared he allegedly feels.

As much as I don't care for the basic shounen protagonist archetype (Naruto, Natsu, Luffy, Asta, Goku, Sora, like....almost every red ranger in Super Sentai) the last thing I can call any of them is bland. Overused, yes. Definitely wish we had less Narutos and Astas and more Dekus, Edwards, and Makas. But I'll take that over the bland lego brick that Jon is. He's like that unnecessary ninth main character they turned into the main focus of Digimon Tri.

Fucking Bella from Twilight is a better defined character than Jon right now. At least her actions back up the selfishness, immaturity, and mental instability that you read in her inner monologues (whether those traits were intentional on the author's part is a whole other can of worms lol). Jon will (VERY RARELY) tell you how he feels, but he doesn't really...show it. He says he doesn't want to be Superman, that he's still traumatized from what Bendis put him through, that he's (in general) struggling....But that's never really shown. And I honestly doubt it will be as long as Taylor's in full fanservice mode (Which is a problem he's been having in Nightwing too. And I actually like that book.). The little borderline Gary Stu is thriving right now and comes off like he enjoys every second of it.

That's been the problem with SoKE from the start. It takes Taylor's biggest weakness as a writer and cranks it up to 11 to try and make you love this character. It's all fluff and fanservice, with very little in the way of substance. His Nightwing has the exact same problem, but it's easier to get away with that with a long running and clearly defined character like Dick Grayson. We already know who he is. This was supposed to be the moment where we get to know who this new Jon is. But outside of being Superman's kid...he's nothing.