The Sassy Southern Brawler, Rogue (Anna Marie LeBeau) Appreciation 2022

[seccruz]

Evil X Challenge reached out Girl.
Art by Beefcakeboss: FhDOBsvWAAAcqf0.jpg
& Serge Towers:
FhDCIgjWQAAR2GI.jpg

[ChronoRogue]

well that is partly my thing if you wanna push the unity thing it should be opened up and it should not be under the avengers banner and considering it was last time perhaps it could be under the x banner or ideally just call it something else..its a sticking point to me because the relationship is not equal and honestly its the x characters driving more of the interest more often then not.....in terms of the New Avengers not destroying what the Avengers used to be well I will take it from Bendis on the blow back he got from longtime Avenger fans by JLAing up the team irrespective if it made sense story or in character wise...In terms of exposing characters to something different (in addition to not needing the avengers to do so) not sure how many x fans followed them or there adventures on that side that it was really worth it...US Avengers as recall didn't really last long or sell well at all...in terms of what I expected Uncanny Avengers to do I just went by how much marvel kind of hyped of there latest big event AvX(which imo was more to elevate the avengers at the expense of the xmen). In terms of what Rogue has done in the xmen in the last 5 years its more then alot of other x characters and avengers for that matter(including a series with gambit and about to get another one) not to mention its still where she truly made her name and got a popular as a character....and honestly I don't necessarily share the view that she did better on that side as a character in all honesty we just differ there for all the new interactions etc how many people even care about those other characters like that....(her and deadpool could have easily interacted in the x books and it actually makes more sense for it to happen there) I don't deny the X Office dropped the ball with quite a few things but HOX era is coming off the back of an era where interest and attention where purposely shifted away from the x side of things everything and towards other franchises be it avengers, inhumans etc and I think that has affected how the franchise is being reshaped for the future and some of the creative choices.

The reason why it was an Avengers team was because it was their "olive branch" to try and understand mutants more and provide resources to mutant-related conflicts. It was the X-Men that kept asking why the Avengers rarely interfered in the various atrocities that impacted the mutant community, so this was their attempt to directly address that. Which became problematic when Captain America still tried to assert authority to arrest Cyclops, but the idea behind it makes some sense.


As just one example, Rogue ended using the team to try and get resources to stop the poison gas affecting mutants. Hydra!Captain America puts a stop to it by disbanding the team, but this is basically what the Unity Squad would be doing.

Bendis creates some havoc wherever he goes, he did a run of X-Men as well, so I don't really put that on the Avengers too much.

I mean, we have a measure of how many people were interested in Uncanny Avengers, this is why I went over their commercial success as a book. Again, it held it's own against Uncanny X-Men despite the latter books relaunches.

Rogue has done barely anything in the past 5 years as an returning X-Men. The only relevant plot line that didn't even get used to it's real potential, should have been Rogue killing a council member (Apocalypse) but it was swept under the rug because Howard didn't think that through as a drama-point and was too focused on Betsy. Heck, Kelly Thompson is giving Rogue a more important plot-line right now then Duggan or Howard did in their runs and she's not even under the X-Office. Again, I don't place much importance on brand loyalty if the current direction and creative teams are basically ignoring the character.

As for people caring about new interactions, I mean you can look at the Uncanny Avengers Roster thread to see how many people have expressed interest in seeing new interactions. People do care about new perspectives and relationships.

Anyway, yes we might just differ because to me Rogue really stood out as a character in Uncanny Avengers. She was great she formed new connections, expressed interest in rehabilitation for young villains or misguided heroes which makes sense considering her history, and was allowed to play an important role in resolving conflicts. To me, that's 75% of what I want from the character. I would like to see her interact with established friends and family but most X-Men teams rarely even explore that outside of her marriage to Gambit. (see how Rogue's relationship to Mystique and Destiny was basically ignored almost all throughout Krakoa as an example)


One of the highlight scenes for Uncanny Avengers, I liked that Jim Zub really pushed the idea that Rogue would be a great mentor in particular to younger wannabe villains which even Carey seemed to miss as an obvious path to her character arc.

If a franchise is using it's resources to reshape major players and characters in the franchise, that's not good news to hear that your favorite is being treated as an ancillary character. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that the current batch of writers value the character. Again, this is why I'm fine with Rogue wherever a writer wants her, as long as they have a good plan for her development that makes sense and is exciting.

[JB]

If a franchise is using it's resources to reshape major players and characters in the franchise, that's not good news to hear that your favorite is being treated as an ancillary character. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that the current batch of writers value the character. Again, this is why I'm fine with Rogue wherever a writer wants her, as long as they have a good plan for her development that makes sense and is exciting.

I agree with so much of what you have said the last few days especially the above. My concern for Rogue (who is in my top 3) in this era is that from Excalibur, to X-Men, to the X-Office asking an outside writer if they wanted to take on this new story, there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the current group of writers to utilize her. So I agree that if she's better served elsewhere, I'm all for it.

[Selene]

^Truth. Beast and Iceman have also been more useful characters as Avengers/Defenders than X-Men, and aside from her big break with Carey, circa 2006-2011, the same holds for Rogue post-Claremont, IMO.

[seccruz]

I agree with so much of what you have said the last few days especially the above. My concern for Rogue (who is in my top 3) in this era is that from Excalibur, to X-Men, to the X-Office asking an outside writer if they wanted to take on this new story, there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the current group of writers to utilize her. So I agree that if she's better served elsewhere, I'm all for it.

Seriously! It does seem like she was better off in the Avengers... Which is a sad conclusion to come to...

[sbo]

One of the highlight scenes for Uncanny Avengers, I liked that Jim Zub really pushed the idea that Rogue would be a great mentor in particular to younger wannabe villains which even Carey seemed to miss as an obvious path to her character arc.

If a franchise is using it's resources to reshape major players and characters in the franchise, that's not good news to hear that your favorite is being treated as an ancillary character. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that the current batch of writers value the character. Again, this is why I'm fine with Rogue wherever a writer wants her, as long as they have a good plan for her development that makes sense and is exciting.

Agree 100%
I want to see Rogue wherever she'll be best utilized.

She was used far better in the avengers than she has been in the x-books for the last few years.

i also think the reforming villains idea would be a great premise to use in the Rogue and gambit ongoing if that happens. They've both had some experience with the wrong side of the law and could offer some guidance to superpowered folks headed down the wrong path.

[K7P5V]

Carlos Pacheco (R.I.P.)

[seccruz]

Agree 100%
I want to see Rogue wherever she'll be best utilized.

She was used far better in the avengers than she has been in the x-books for the last few years.

i also think the reforming villains idea would be a great premise to use in the Rogue and gambit ongoing if that happens. They've both had some experience with the wrong side of the law and could offer some guidance to superpowered folks headed down the wrong path.

X-Thunderbolts! I would love it!

[seccruz]

Carlos Pacheco (R.I.P.)

Such a huge loss! He was so talented!

[ChronoRogue]

I agree with so much of what you have said the last few days especially the above. My concern for Rogue (who is in my top 3) in this era is that from Excalibur, to X-Men, to the X-Office asking an outside writer if they wanted to take on this new story, there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the current group of writers to utilize her. So I agree that if she's better served elsewhere, I'm all for it.

^Truth. Beast and Iceman have also been more useful characters as Avengers/Defenders than X-Men, and aside from her big break with Carey, circa 2006-2011, the same holds for Rogue post-Claremont, IMO

Seriously! It does seem like she was better off in the Avengers... Which is a sad conclusion to come to...

Agree 100%
I want to see Rogue wherever she'll be best utilized.

She was used far better in the avengers than she has been in the x-books for the last few years.

i also think the reforming villains idea would be a great premise to use in the Rogue and gambit ongoing if that happens. They've both had some experience with the wrong side of the law and could offer some guidance to superpowered folks headed down the wrong path.

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Rogue could work in any number of settings and franchises. To me it's a strength of versatility in the character if they they are able to do that, rather than just seem awkward or not fitting at all. And Rogue did debut in an Avengers Annual after all.



Also yes, rest in peace Carlos Pacheco.

[seccruz]

jonboy007007_1667082130564.jpg
90's Rogue by Jonboy Meyers

[cam18]

The reason why it was an Avengers team was because it was their "olive branch" to try and understand mutants more and provide resources to mutant-related conflicts. It was the X-Men that kept asking why the Avengers rarely interfered in the various atrocities that impacted the mutant community, so this was their attempt to directly address that. Which became problematic when Captain America still tried to assert authority to arrest Cyclops, but the idea behind it makes some sense.


As just one example, Rogue ended using the team to try and get resources to stop the poison gas affecting mutants. Hydra!Captain America puts a stop to it by disbanding the team, but this is basically what the Unity Squad would be doing.

Bendis creates some havoc wherever he goes, he did a run of X-Men as well, so I don't really put that on the Avengers too much.

I mean, we have a measure of how many people were interested in Uncanny Avengers, this is why I went over their commercial success as a book. Again, it held it's own against Uncanny X-Men despite the latter books relaunches.

Rogue has done barely anything in the past 5 years as an returning X-Men. The only relevant plot line that didn't even get used to it's real potential, should have been Rogue killing a council member (Apocalypse) but it was swept under the rug because Howard didn't think that through as a drama-point and was too focused on Betsy. Heck, Kelly Thompson is giving Rogue a more important plot-line right now then Duggan or Howard did in their runs and she's not even under the X-Office. Again, I don't place much importance on brand loyalty if the current direction and creative teams are basically ignoring the character.

As for people caring about new interactions, I mean you can look at the Uncanny Avengers Roster thread to see how many people have expressed interest in seeing new interactions. People do care about new perspectives and relationships.

Anyway, yes we might just differ because to me Rogue really stood out as a character in Uncanny Avengers. She was great she formed new connections, expressed interest in rehabilitation for young villains or misguided heroes which makes sense considering her history, and was allowed to play an important role in resolving conflicts. To me, that's 75% of what I want from the character. I would like to see her interact with established friends and family but most X-Men teams rarely even explore that outside of her marriage to Gambit. (see how Rogue's relationship to Mystique and Destiny was basically ignored almost all throughout Krakoa as an example)


One of the highlight scenes for Uncanny Avengers, I liked that Jim Zub really pushed the idea that Rogue would be a great mentor in particular to younger wannabe villains which even Carey seemed to miss as an obvious path to her character arc.

If a franchise is using it's resources to reshape major players and characters in the franchise, that's not good news to hear that your favorite is being treated as an ancillary character. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that the current batch of writers value the character. Again, this is why I'm fine with Rogue wherever a writer wants her, as long as they have a good plan for her development that makes sense and is exciting.

Uncanny Avengers in its early stages did do fairly well because it was pushed as the next big thing out of AvX...as a concept the execution was flawed also the timing of it being a marriage of a franchise marvel clearly wanted to promote and one it was trying to if not bury at least push as secondary....At least your honest about not really caring about the brand and I know my view my not be popular on here and that is fine....for most ppl Rogue the Avenger isn't even a thing like that anyway. But for those who like it whatever floats your boat as they say for me big pass.
HM for all the issues mentioned with the X books and editors not much as said about the state of Avenger franchise which judging by quite a few of there fans is not that great but I digress.

[seccruz]

Uncanny Avengers in its early stages did do fairly well because it was pushed as the next big thing out of AvX...as a concept the execution was flawed also the timing of it being a marriage of a franchise marvel clearly wanted to promote and one it was trying to if not bury at least push as secondary....At least your honest about not really caring about the brand and I know my view my not be popular on here and that is fine....for most ppl Rogue the Avenger isn't even a thing like that anyway. But for those who like it whatever floats your boat as they say for me big pass.
HM for all the issues mentioned with the X books and editors not much as said about the state of Avenger franchise which judging by quite a few of there fans is not that great but I digress.

I hated Remender's run on Avengers, but then Duggan came out and I was hooked! He wrote a really competent Rogue! And she wasn't saddled with her X-baggage!

[cam18]

I hated Remender's run on Avengers, but then Duggan came out and I was hooked! He wrote a really competent Rogue! And she wasn't saddled with her X-baggage!

He was a little better but still not fan of Uncanny Avengers as concept mainly due to it being under the Avengers banner and how some of the Avengers editors write X characters......if they do something outside of that more independent of either I could get behind that jmo.

[seccruz]

He was a little better but still not fan of Uncanny Avengers as concept mainly due to it being under the Avengers banner and how some of the Avengers editors write X characters......if they do something outside of that more independent of either I could get behind that jmo.

That's what annoyed me during Remender's runs. The hipocrisy of the Avengers towards the X-Men.