Zatanna Zatara Mistress of Magic Appreciation Thread 2022

[Mantis-Ray]

He may have more nuance in his solo title but as one of the posters on here said, he is basically 'Magic Batman' now.

You know how creators like to wank bad ass normal characters like Batman by showing them defeating God like beings? Well, that's John now for the magic side of the DCU. Everyone else is portrayed less competent and less knowledgeable just so he can look cool.

Damn thats a good summation of Constantine alright.

Especially a shame since writers have forgotten that Constantine is supposed to be an underdog detective. He's not supposed to know all or be able to do all, his thing that he only barely, barely wins through sheer guile, luck, and whatever help from other's he managed to scraggle or be (un)fortunate to get.

I actually read the Original Sins trade of his collection run and damn Constantine feels so small in the world. Dude could only barely survive.

[Rac7d*]

Damn thats a good summation of Constantine alright.

Especially a shame since writers have forgotten that Constantine is supposed to be an underdog detective. He's not supposed to know all or be able to do all, his thing that he only barely, barely wins through sheer guile, luck, and whatever help from other's he managed to scraggle or be (un)fortunate to get.

I actually read the Original Sins trade of his collection run and damn Constantine feels so small in the world. Dude could only barely survive.

DC has upgraded him alot since his debut

[Digifiend]

Dark Crisis On Infinite Earths #4 is what I saw. I haven't kept up with Dark Crisis, so I don't know if that's different from the main title or not.

It's the same book. It's being renamed to add "On Infinite Earths" from issue 4 onwards, with the first three issues given new printings under the new name.

[Frontier]

Latest webtoon chapter is out!

spoilers:

Move over Constantine, I'm here for magic detective Zatanna! I was glad to see her stage outfit again in the dream. I love how Zee was worried the cops would burn her alive for being a witch but they actually just want to watch her magic. I guess useless police comes with the grounds of this kind of detective story.

end of spoilers

[John Venus]

spoilers:

The pacing of this web toon is starting to drag for me. I'm getting annoyed by how nerfed her powers just so the plot can last longer.

end of spoilers

Dark Crisis On Infinite Earths #4 is what I saw. I haven't kept up with Dark Crisis, so I don't know if that's different from the main title or not.

Yep, you're right. It is indeed for Dark Crisis #4. I saw it confirmed elsewhere.

Damn thats a good summation of Constantine alright.

Especially a shame since writers have forgotten that Constantine is supposed to be an underdog detective. He's not supposed to know all or be able to do all, his thing that he only barely, barely wins through sheer guile, luck, and whatever help from other's he managed to scraggle or be (un)fortunate to get.

I actually read the Original Sins trade of his collection run and damn Constantine feels so small in the world. Dude could only barely survive.

Yeah, I feel like in another timeline I might have liked his character. Or like Ollie and Dinah I might like both characters individually but not as a couple. But everything from Nu52 onwards has really soured me on his character.

I like Zatanna more and the way she gets written whenever Constantine is around is really frustrating. Even in the otherwise awesome Books of Magic she gets turned into a damsel in distress just to make John look good. It's like the JLD writers looked at her depiction in that book and just ran with it forgetting all of her power and character development in other books.

The worst offender was that JLD Apokolips movie. Imagine having a female character whose never been killed off to support a male character's story arc and then....killing her off just to further Constantine's story arc and her entire role boiling down to just furthering and supporting John's character arc.

[Gaius]

spoilers:

The pacing of this web toon is starting to drag for me. I'm getting annoyed by how nerfed her powers just so the plot can last longer.

end of spoilers

Hmm, yeah. Starting to feel it's taking it's time a bit too much.

Granted it's free so I have less gripes if this was a series I was paying for.

[Aahz]

spoilers:

The pacing of this web toon is starting to drag for me. I'm getting annoyed by how nerfed her powers just so the plot can last longer.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Her powers kind of have the problem, that they don't really have any limitations. I mean they need some kind of justification why she doesn't just resolve the plot with two spells. She is just not a street level character.

end of spoilers

[Zee_Fan]

I like Zatanna more and the way she gets written whenever Constantine is around is really frustrating. Even in the otherwise awesome Books of Magic she gets turned into a damsel in distress just to make John look good. It's like the JLD writers looked at her depiction in that book and just ran with it forgetting all of her power and character development in other books.

For the first third (maybe half) of the JLD 1 run, you're right. But she develops over time and becomes the alpha of the team. Even Constantine looks to her. I need to go back and see which issue it was, but Constantine is leading them against whoever they're fighting and he decides it's a lost cause and bails. She basically takes over the team at that point and never looks back. That's why I enjoyed the first JLD, even though it started out frustratingly for her.

[Edwin30]

spoilers:

The pacing of this web toon is starting to drag for me. I'm getting annoyed by how nerfed her powers just so the plot can last longer.

end of spoilers

I don't feel that way at all. The pacing is fine for something that comes out weekly. Also I want this webtoon to go on for as long as possible.

Her powers are nerfed because she's 21 and doesn't have much experience. The outcomes are sometimes disastrous like in that flashback when she made that kid dissappear and couldn't bring him back. She was also hit by a spell from Allura and her dad. The combination of which sent her back in time. Also the Ripper seems to have some magic too.
These are the circumstances the writer has created for Zee has to overcome.
.

[Edwin30]

spoilers:

Her powers kind of have the problem, that they don't really have any limitations. I mean they need some kind of justification why she doesn't just resolve the plot with two spells. She is just not a street level character.

end of spoilers

You know magic isn't so rare in DC. A lot of people can do the same thing as Zee sometimes even without speaking backwards. That and all the science fiction powers like speed force, emotional spectrum, alien technology, even human technology make magic look unspectacular. A lot of street level character are dodging bullets because they went to fighting school one day.

So it's really hard to say who's a street level character and who's not.

[Witchfan]

What is Zatanna's role in War of the Gods and Day of Judgement? Are these stories worth buying for Zatanna fans.?

[Frontier]

I don't feel that way at all. The pacing is fine for something that comes out weekly. Also I want this webtoon to go on for as long as possible.

Her powers are nerfed because she's 21 and doesn't have much experience. The outcomes are sometimes disastrous like in that flashback when she made that kid dissappear and couldn't bring him back. She was also hit by a spell from Allura and her dad. The combination of which sent her back in time. Also the Ripper seems to have some magic too.
These are the circumstances the writer has created for Zee has to overcome.
.

Yeah, honestly I think they're handling it okay without completely nerfing her, which is what I was afraid they'd do.

[Gaius]

What is Zatanna's role in War of the Gods and Day of Judgement? Are these stories worth buying for Zatanna fans.?

WoGs is kind of a mess that I wouldn't really recommend. I don't recall Zee playing much of a big role in it, there was however a "Dark Crisis - War of the Gods " What if special where Zee played a bit of a bigger role near the end.

[John Venus]

spoilers:

Her powers kind of have the problem, that they don't really have any limitations. I mean they need some kind of justification why she doesn't just resolve the plot with two spells. She is just not a street level character.

end of spoilers

Well, I'm not expecting her to warp reality or time travel. But screwing up simple locator spells and offensive/defensive spells repeatedly is getting a tad tiresome. It's up to the writer to come up with plots that fits the character though. The Ripper is the kind of thing she could stop with ease but the writer has to nerf her so the plot would last longer.

I'm personally way more interested in seeing how Allura fits into this.

For the first third (maybe half) of the JLD 1 run, you're right. But she develops over time and becomes the alpha of the team. Even Constantine looks to her. I need to go back and see which issue it was, but Constantine is leading them against whoever they're fighting and he decides it's a lost cause and bails. She basically takes over the team at that point and never looks back. That's why I enjoyed the first JLD, even though it started out frustratingly for her.

I'll take your word for it.

I don't feel that way at all. The pacing is fine for something that comes out weekly. Also I want this webtoon to go on for as long as possible.

Her powers are nerfed because she's 21 and doesn't have much experience. The outcomes are sometimes disastrous like in that flashback when she made that kid dissappear and couldn't bring him back. She was also hit by a spell from Allura and her dad. The combination of which sent her back in time. Also the Ripper seems to have some magic too.
These are the circumstances the writer has created for Zee has to overcome.
.

Well, we could still have story arcs even after the end of this. Maybe a S2 titled 'Zatanna & [insert character here]'.

She may be 21 but she has had her powers since she was a kid and her father has been training her for all her life up until this point.

It's understandable if she messes up the big spells and the whole 'my powers have been messed with' concept worked early on but messing up simple locator spells did bug me.

What is Zatanna's role in War of the Gods and Day of Judgement? Are these stories worth buying for Zatanna fans.?

She didn't have a huge role in War of the Gods. She and may other mystics along with Wonder Woman, Geo Force and Animal Man tried to cast a spell that didn't quite work as they intended. The only amusing bit was Zee mentioning Guy Gardner hates her cooking. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it if you're looking for Zatanna stories specifically. It's primarily a WW story/event. The event was also a mess because Perez had ambitious plans but his editor, Karen Berger, was pregnant and on leave at the time and the rest of DC editorial didn't give a **** about WW much to Perez's frustration. He left WW and DC as a whole for several years afterwards.

She did have a role in 'Day of Judgement' but it's primarily a Spectre/Hal Jordan story. It's a good showing for classic Zatanna though and shows the formation of the 'Sentinels of Magic' which was the magic team pre JLD. It's also a good look at the magic side of the DCU pre Nu52. Everyone was in top shape there and also features characters you don't see much of these days like Doctor Occult and Blue Devil.

[Frontier]

I can imagine the stress isn't helping.

I am kind of curious if the Ripper stuff might just be "season 1" and if they have plans past when Zee gets back to the present-day.