Zatanna Zatara Mistress of Magic Appreciation Thread 2022

[Edwin30]

Zatanna by Mirka Andolfo

Twitter - https://mobile.twitter.com/Mirkand/s...65610890301444

[Edwin30]

I just hate reading Paul Dini's 2010 run

This is the first page of his 2010 run. How is she dealing with the fallout from the Mindwipe situation? Pretty good. Just imagine if Ralph Dibney was sitting in the audience.

This was the time Zee needed someone to pull her out of the dirt that was Identity Crisis but Dini really didn't want her to be likeable IMO. Stupid love Triangle he tried to create between Bat, cat and Zee...yuck! Zee was humiliated so many times and yet people like his writing so much

[Vordan]

Being Batman’s what, fourth in line wanna be girlfriend is a dead end for her. Dini’s too attached to his self insert getting with his waifu to really ever let her grow beyond that. Hell being too attached to the Batfamily at all isn’t exactly ideal given how bloated that group is.

I'm at a point where I just see the JLD as holding Zatanna back.

Well it’s also the only group that’s actually let her shine in recent years so I can’t agree. I just think she should get a solo or a mini in addition to it, but it tied her and Diana closer together which is a good thing far as I’m concerned.

[Robanker]

Zatanna by Mirka Andolfo

Twitter - https://mobile.twitter.com/Mirkand/s...65610890301444

Get Mirka on a Zee book. Good Lord.

I'm at a point where I just see the JLD as holding Zatanna back.

Co-signed, with bold underlined emphasis where Constantine is involved.

[Gaius]

Being Batman’s what, fourth in line wanna be girlfriend is a dead end for her. Dini’s too attached to his self insert getting with his waifu to really ever let her grow beyond that. Hell being too attached to the Batfamily at all isn’t exactly ideal given how bloated that group is.



Well it’s also the only group that’s actually let her shine in recent years so I can’t agree. I just think she should get a solo or a mini in addition to it, but it tied her and Diana closer together which is a good thing far as I’m concerned.

Hmm, it's been a while since I read his Zee run but I actually think Dini, in comparison to his partner-in-crime, is more able to reign in Batman fanboyism when it comes to writing other DC characters. He obviously ships them but I don't recall Bruce even appearing in Dini's book.

With you on JLD though

[Frontier]

Zatanna by Mirka Andolfo

Twitter - https://mobile.twitter.com/Mirkand/s...65610890301444

I feel like the star earrings should be a staple of her magic and her look, and this is an amazing depiction of Zatanna!

I just hate reading Paul Dini's 2010 run

This is the first page of his 2010 run. How is she dealing with the fallout from the Mindwipe situation? Pretty good. Just imagine if Ralph Dibney was sitting in the audience.

This was the time Zee needed someone to pull her out of the dirt that was Identity Crisis but Dini really didn't want her to be likeable IMO. Stupid love Triangle he tried to create between Bat, cat and Zee...yuck! Zee was humiliated so many times and yet people like his writing so much

So is the problem that Dini didn't want to dwell on what Zee did in Identity Crisis or the fallout of that (even though other writers already did) and that makes her come off as unlikable? I don't see where she's being humiliated (isn't this an imagine spot?).

To be honest it's not something I'd want to start a solo series off with either.

Is her fear of puppets too ridiculous?

Being Batman’s what, fourth in line wanna be girlfriend is a dead end for her. Dini’s too attached to his self insert getting with his waifu to really ever let her grow beyond that. Hell being too attached to the Batfamily at all isn’t exactly ideal given how bloated that group is.

I mean, to be fair, when he wrote her solo Batman only came up like once or twice and never in any significant capacity so it wasn't like she was pining for Bruce every issue. It was mostly an excuse to have her guest star in his 'Tec run or his other Gotham books.

Well it’s also the only group that’s actually let her shine in recent years so I can’t agree. I just think she should get a solo or a mini in addition to it, but it tied her and Diana closer together which is a good thing far as I’m concerned.

How much has she actually gotten to shine though? Especially recently.

[Vordan]

I feel like the star earrings should be a staple of her magic and her look, and this is an amazing depiction of Zatanna!

So is the problem that Dini didn't want to dwell on what Zee did in Identity Crisis or the fallout of that (even though other writers already did) and that makes her come off as unlikable? I don't see where she's being humiliated (isn't this an imagine spot?).

To be honest it's not something I'd want to start a solo series off with either.

Is her fear of puppets too ridiculous?

I mean, to be fair, when he wrote her solo Batman only came up like once or twice and never in any significant capacity so it wasn't like she was pining for Bruce every issue. It was mostly an excuse to have her guest star in his 'Tec run or his other Gotham books.

How much has she actually gotten to shine though? Especially recently.

She was the one who ultimately beat the Upside Down Man:



Obviously some of you may not have dug it as much as I did, but I had a grin the whole time I was reading the final issue. And her interactions with Diana were a lot of fun:



Two of them could easily be the female counterpart to the Superman/Batman bromance if writers keep developing Zatanna and Diana’s friendship. Diana is usually so serious and “proper” while Zatanna wears her heart on her sleeve, it makes for entertaining interactions. If nothing else JLD is what set that up.

[Robanker]

Hmm, it's been a while since I read his Zee run but I actually think Dini, in comparison to his partner-in-crime, is more able to reign in Batman fanboyism when it comes to writing other DC characters. He obviously ships them but I don't recall Bruce even appearing in Dini's book.

With you on JLD though

I mean, Dini also wrote Heart of Hush which was very much a Bruce/Selina book by the end. Dini is very much able to reign it in, especially compared to Timm.

[Frontier]

She was the one who ultimately beat the Upside Down Man:



Obviously some of you may not have dug it as much as I did, but I had a grin the whole time I was reading the final issue. And her interactions with Diana were a lot of fun:



Two of them could easily be the female counterpart to the Superman/Batman bromance if writers keep developing Zatanna and Diana’s friendship. Diana is usually so serious and “proper” while Zatanna wears her heart on her sleeve, it makes for entertaining interactions. If nothing else JLD is what set that up.

The Upside Down Man defeat and her friendship with Diana were definitely highlights, but then Constantine rejoined the book (like he always does) and it basically went downhill from there.

[starduck]

I just hate reading Paul Dini's 2010 run

This is the first page of his 2010 run. How is she dealing with the fallout from the Mindwipe situation? Pretty good. Just imagine if Ralph Dibney was sitting in the audience.

This was the time Zee needed someone to pull her out of the dirt that was Identity Crisis but Dini really didn't want her to be likeable IMO. Stupid love Triangle he tried to create between Bat, cat and Zee...yuck! Zee was humiliated so many times and yet people like his writing so much

If you ignore the romance subplots he puts her in, his Zee is funny, powerful and resourceful, though I'd like to see a new writer's take on her but most people just use her as a plot device for stories or other characters. Dark crisis seem to forget she exists every other issue for example

[John Venus]

IMO, the best Zatanna writer is one who rarely gets brought up in discussions: Gerry Conway. He started writing her in the 70's when she joined the JLA. He introduced Sindella, the Homo Magi, portrayed as one of the most powerful and useful members of the League who often saved the day by herself, her Perez designed costume signified her coming into her own and creating her own identity and he also tried to define the system of how magic worked. He also wrote her World's Finest back up and was working on a Zatanna mini series that later became the 1985 Zatanna Special but with his name taken off the latter. I think something happened behind the scenes and he wasn't happy with it. You can tell the 1985 Special was a much bigger story that's been cut down to fit into 64 pages. Either way, he wouldn't write the character again until a flashback issue to the JL Detroit era in one of the JL books in the mid-late 00's. I think if he had been allowed to write the character in an ongoing back then she could have really grown into a bigger star.

I just hate reading Paul Dini's 2010 run/IMG]

This is the first page of his 2010 run. How is she dealing with the fallout from the Mindwipe situation? Pretty good. Just imagine if Ralph Dibney was sitting in the audience.

This was the time Zee needed someone to pull her out of the dirt that was Identity Crisis but Dini really didn't want her to be likeable IMO. Stupid love Triangle he tried to create between Bat, cat and Zee...yuck! Zee was humiliated so many times and yet people like his writing so much

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the first page but later I interpreted as her using her performance to process what happened.

Zee was pulled out of the mud IdC put her in in Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers and later in Dini's 'Tec run. No point in dwelling over it again.

There was also no love triangle between Selina, Bruce and Zee. She asked if they could date, Bruce turned her down, later Selina asked Zee if she and Bruce were dating and she clarified they weren't. Later Bruce confesses his love to Selina. That's barely a love triangle. If it is, it's the mildest one I've ever seen.

I also disagree she was humiliated. Yeah, she was caught in dire situations but he also showed her as being clever, powerful and resourcesful enough to get herself out of those situations. The art was cheesecakey at times and Dini's plots weren't always the most inspired but his characterization of Zatanna was always on point, imo.

Being BatmanÂ’s what, fourth in line wanna be girlfriend is a dead end for her. DiniÂ’s too attached to his self insert getting with his waifu to really ever let her grow beyond that. Hell being too attached to the Batfamily at all isnÂ’t exactly ideal given how bloated that group is.

Well itÂ’s also the only group thatÂ’s actually let her shine in recent years so I canÂ’t agree. I just think she should get a solo or a mini in addition to it, but it tied her and Diana closer together which is a good thing far as IÂ’m concerned.

Batman never appeared or was mentioned in her ongoing though. He appeared in a single panel in a dream sequence with a bunch of other characters when she was having a nightmare but that was about it. He was also never mentioned in the Zatanna/Black Canary: Bloodspell OGN. I agree that Zee is Dini's waifu and all but I think he was always able to reign in his fandom. He gave her her own space without trying to tie her too much to the Bat Fam.

She was the one who ultimately beat the Upside Down Man:
Obviously some of you may not have dug it as much as I did, but I had a grin the whole time I was reading the final issue. And her interactions with Diana were a lot of fun:

Two of them could easily be the female counterpart to the Superman/Batman bromance if writers keep developing Zatanna and Diana’s friendship. Diana is usually so serious and “proper” while Zatanna wears her heart on her sleeve, it makes for entertaining interactions. If nothing else JLD is what set that up.

I like her beating UPD and her relationship with WW.

But post defeating UPD and becoming leader of JLD:

-she has been shown to be an ineffective and terrible leader who endangered her teammates by not telling them about the UDM.
-she is shown ineffective without magic despite countless prior examples where she is shown to be competent without her power.
-John has been shown to be more of a leader and calling the shots on JLD.
-possessed by the UDM and needing to be saved (although thankfully it was WW who helped her).
-hatches up another reckless plan with Khlaid involving the very sketchy Mr E to stop Merlin.
-possessed by Eclipso in the Flash book, also hardly any interaction with the Flash.
-killed off in Dark Crisis.
-taken out in the Batman vs Robin event.
-nerfed in 'Zatanna and the Ripper'.

Overall, it's a rough year for the character. Either DC thinks the character is a joke or they just want to use her as a prop for other characters benefit. It's frustrating.

[Frontier]

New webtoon episode!

spoilers:

Some under-dressed Zatanna fanservice...and a magical makeup routine! Zee knows how to look presentable. I can imagine some people taking umbrage at Constantine implying he's more skilled than her and she's out of practice, although she sasses him right back. Oh and him being called the "smartest guy I know," but she also makes fun of his dumb moments. Swamp Thing mention! The scene of them bantering and waiting for something to happen was pretty cute. The mystery of Jack the Ripper and what happened to Giovanni continues.

end of spoilers

[Mai Zen]

I was rereading JLD 2018. I think Ram V really rushed the battle with UDM. It sucks because Tynion spent a lot of time setting him up and then Ram V finished him within 2 issues so he could set up his own villain- Merlin. However Ram V didn't get to finish his own story. Got cut short due to Dark Crisis. I wonder if he'll pick it up after Dark Crisis.

I always feel like either Tynion or editorial are giving too much attention on propping up Diana. Zatanna deserved to take charge to restore magic with the Sargon ruby or at least co-op with Diana rather than outright not taking the responsibility.

I can see where Ram V want to develop Zatanna, but yeah the execution is bad and now with the story abruptly ended it does give a sour taste for me. Compare it to Satelite era Zatanna where even though she anxious, she dare to take the charge and lead with optimism.



Paul Dini is kinda writers that dare to put characters to the mud. But he does writing them as skilled persons. Case in point like on Batman TAS, Superman TAS or the Justice League animated series. Although I kinda feel he sometimes too street level and high powered characters like Superman, Zatanna or other leaguers seems underperformed. That being said I do like Paul Dini giving Zatanna more rogue gallery with various threats that challenge Zee various skills or mental, mind resilience

Just about to start reading that, nice to know she show up in it!

Seeing their dynamic, I kinda want to see more on page intensive training between Zatanna and Tim

[Vordan]

Her time with Tim was fun but brief. She’s like the one magic user in these Vertigo series who isn’t a total *******, reading these things can be a chore because they are so unrelentingly grim. Everyone is dying or getting dragged off to hell all the time. Zatanna as a brighter if still serious take on DC Magic is part of her appeal I think.

[Frontier]

Her time with Tim was fun but brief. She’s like the one magic user in these Vertigo series who isn’t a total *******, reading these things can be a chore because they are so unrelentingly grim. Everyone is dying or getting dragged off to hell all the time. Zatanna as a brighter if still serious take on DC Magic is part of her appeal I think.

I miss fun Zatanna.

Even the webtoon gets that she can still have her flair and zest even while dealing with Jack the Ripper of all things.