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  1. #106
    Spectacular Member Zee_Fan's Avatar
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    While I had HBO Max, I watched Promising Young Woman simply because of Emerald Fennell and her ties to the Zatanna movie. It was dark at times, but also quirky and fun at times too. I can see her pulling off a pretty good Zee movie - assuming we ever actually get one (I'm still skeptical).

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mai Zen View Post
    Cut him some slack, he is still young. Thought I do wonder where Bruce learn to develop his playboy persona? Giovanni seems give him some romantic tips xd
    Hopefully Giovanni didn't give Bruce romantic tips while he's dating Giovanni's own daughter .

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Look, she has fishnets on her arms. That's totally memorable .
    I don't remember Zatanna having that, unless you're talking about whatever this JLD is gonna be? I'm out of the loop lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  3. #108
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I don't remember Zatanna having that, unless you're talking about whatever this JLD is gonna be? I'm out of the loop lol.
    Basically it's a JLD thing that she has fishnets on her arms instead of her normal leggy fishnets.

    They just don't have the same effect at all.

  4. #109
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Basically it's a JLD thing that she has fishnets on her arms instead of her normal leggy fishnets.

    They just don't have the same effect at all.
    I'm pretty sure it's not nearly as hot, so yeah lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  5. #110
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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  6. #111
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Smooth operator Bruce Wayne.


  7. #112
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Admittedly he was a teenager then...I think...

  8. #113

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    Thoughts on the 1987 Zatanna Special

    Released in 1987, the 'Zatanna Special' is a 68 page long epic adventure which finds Zatanna and her love interest Jeffery Sloan following a mystic trail sent by Zatanna's mother, Sindella, which leads them on a perilous journey to the hidden city of magical people and a quest to find the source of magic while Zatanna herself grapples with her own identity.

    Interestingly enough, a writer isn't credited for the Special though sources claim that it's Gerry Conway.

    When I first read it several years ago, I thought 'damn, there is a lot going on here' and even upon re-reading it, it feels like 68 pages is too few to fit the whole storyline in. The sub plots range from Zatanna's mother contacting her from beyond the grave to save her people from a magical affliction, Zatanna fighting her archenemy Allura, finding the source of magic, fighting the manifestation of her own inner despair and Zee trying to reconcile all the different parts of herself and finding inner peace. Either this was a bigger story cut down to a smaller one or the writer underestimated how much he could fit in to 68 page special or they realized there wouldn't be any follow up so they went ahead and threw everything and the kitchen sink into the story. A strong case could be made for all of them.



    Pros:

    -It's a pure Zatanna story. No cross overs, guest stars or anything like that. She has her own love interest, supporting characters, arch enemy, locations and mythos. Story makes a strong case for why she should have gotten an ongoing afterwards. The late 80's and early 90's were the perfect period to try and launch an ongoing. She had enough momentum back then to do it. Shame that the comic industry as a whole were so reluctant to do regular ongoings starring female heroes in the 20th century and the early decades of the 21st century.

    -The artwork by Gray Morrow is gorgeous and I think it looks even better in the original printing.

    -No attempts to depict magic as inherently dark or attempts to render Zee morally ambiguous for the sake of drama. She has plenty of internal conflict and drama without needing to make her character darker or grayer. She is also drawn beautifully here and is also depicted as being clever and creative enough to solve the problems she and her boyfriend faces.


    Cons:

    -This is sadly the last time Allura and the Hidden City would play a large role in a Zatanna story. Sindella would return again in the 1993 Come Together mini series but basically disappear afterwards save for brief mentions in Paul Dini's Zatanna ongoing and Bloodspell. It's tragic, they add so much dimension to her and the concepts are interesting enough to be fleshed out. Allura has also all but disappeared. I think Kurt Busiek may have mentioned Allura is Trinity or something else he wrote but I'm not sure. I have a vague memory of it.

    -While I like the concept of Allura, she is barely fleshed out in this story. This is her third appearance overall and we still don't know why she hates the Zatara's or what the hell a dark elemental is supposed to be. The writers throw it in as if we are supposed to recognize what that is.

    -The third act. I think this is when the story begins to fall apart. I think Zatanna having to rescue her mother's people at the behest of her mother's ghost is a strong enough plot line but its resolved too quickly. After all, they kidnapped her mother shorty after Zatanna's birth and used her as a power source for their city but not all of them are evil either, they are, in their own way, trying to survive. The story would have flowed smoothly if it was more about Zatanna traveling to the Hidden City while stymied by Allura every step of the way, finds out the Hidden Ones are dying which leads her to search for the source of all magic in order to cure them, manages to save them despite Allura's effort then in the climax confronts Allura/despair before making her way back to Shadowcrest because of her connection to Jeff. In the process she finds her self and achieves inner peace through her journey.


    -Jeff Sloan. Well, I'm neutral towards him. He's not bad as love interest but he is also so utterly useless in the face of what Zatanna deals. But OTOH, he does provide a needed human connection for her, levity and a human reaction to all the fantastical stuff going on. His physical appearance is also quite dated, though thankfully not as bad or creepy as Terry Long. Though I am thankful that he wasn't used in a way that undercut the MC. I wouldn't mind him coming back if his appearance got revamped.


    Art appreciation:

    If I post every page I like from the special I might end up posting the whole thing. Every page has something that I like but these pages stand out in particular for me. Especially the jumbled panels showing the illusions breaking before Zatanna confronts her arch nemesis:






    Last edited by John Venus; 01-17-2022 at 08:16 PM.

  9. #114

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    Into the belly of the beast:






    I love the colouring on these pages.
    Last edited by John Venus; 01-17-2022 at 08:15 PM.

  10. #115

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    I really like the layout of this sequence.

    I still have no idea what Hothat's ring is supposed to be. There was definitely some Dr Strange influence in how they wrote Zee during this period.






    (I like Kasim, a little stereotypical but I wouldn't mind a modern revamp of him and Tong.)
    Last edited by John Venus; 01-17-2022 at 08:57 PM.

  11. #116

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    Finally, these three pages in particular which shows Gray Morrow's handle on facial expressions. Even without dialogue you can tell what the characters are thinking/feeling:






  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    That is some damn good art.

  13. #118
    Fantastic Member Mai Zen's Avatar
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    I think I read it somewhere that it's originally a miniseries but condensed to become a huge special. Agree love the art there. My favorite is this :



    Kasim remind me of Tong from Giovanni Zatara story back then

  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mai Zen View Post
    I think I read it somewhere that it's originally a miniseries but condensed to become a huge special. Agree love the art there.
    I asked Gerry Conway about it. No reply yet. Maybe I should ask him over twitter instead of tumblr.

    My favorite is this :
    [/IMG]
    Yes, that was a great page too and one of my favourites as well. I didn't want to end up posting too many pages from the comic and due to the 3 image limitation had to pick and choose which ones to post.

    Kasim remind me of Tong from Giovanni Zatara story back then
    Yes, I think Kasim was a callback to Tong as well.

  15. #120
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Miguel Mercado


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