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  1. #751
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalman112 View Post
    Colleen Doran.


    Attachment 122385
    Really nice Zee art .

  2. #752
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    "...it's not a show about superheroes. It's about people.."

    What a stupid response.
    I dunno man, I think you have to be pretty dumb to want super heroing in a super hero cartoon .

    Jokes aside, this response aged like milk, 'cause if we entertain this "It's about people" response, well, every episode after Artemis' arc in season 4 had really awkward character development for the main characters, if not outright bad or nonexistent, some others had it better but, meh... so much for "it's about people".

    Okay so you didn't deliver a story that your audience was expecting but what about the animation? The animation sucked. Trying to fool us by using slideshows during flashbacks....Ssooo many flashbacks.
    They really should drop the New 52 art style and go back to that one from season 1 and 2.

    The biggest difference between the previous and current art style is that the current one is more detailed, more detailed is worse for animation since that makes it more expensive and harder to animate, the difference between the quality of a random fight from seasons 1 and 2, and a "big" fight from 3 and 4 are night and day.

    Hell, season 4's best fight for me is the fight where the lights are turned off and the Team has to fight against Lady Shiva and her goons, there are plenty of moments with awkwardly stiff animations either way...

    And yeah, the flashbacks are fucking cancer and another reason why "Zatanna's" arc was so unbelievably wack to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I don't completely disagree with the anti-religious (I say this as someone who lives in a religious community) but I think it's bad form to not have any faith represented on screen. I thought Khalid was a good representation of a muslim character and nothing he said about religion felt out of place. .
    Yeah, what Khalid says is fine, I just find it awkward 'cause the cartoon tried to pretend it's an ongoing plot he solved there, when he was basically just introduced, fact he's talking with illusions of his family and not his actual family also makes it kinda fall flat.

    That entire episode was awkward either way because two of the three characters were just introduced and the cartoon expects me to care about their just introduced problems, Thirteen was introduced before, but she only in like one episode and didn't do much.

    I think among the three Khalid wasn't even the worst one anyways, that would be Mary who's significantly worse than the other two, that one really depends on you having to care about something that happened offscreen that they didn't even bother making a slideshow about, meh...

    Only time I've seen Zatanna disliked is by Raven fans which is weird. It's because Zee adviced the JL against helping Raven when she went to them for help (NTT #1-5).
    If I remember correctly, Zatanna sensed evil within Raven and refused to help her.

    At worst, you can say Zatanna was rather callous, but if some random chick nobody knows with evil within her asks the League for help, it'd be weirder to say something besides "No" lol.

    Also I think Zatanna pointed out early on that Raven manipulated Wally's emotions to make him think he loved Raven, if so, even more reasons to not trust her early on.

    I recall she got some hate for Identity Crisis but that stuff has been swept under the rug and we've had multiple reboots since plus even in the original continuity she made amends to him.
    Made amends to who? Batman?

    And yeah, Identity Crisis is where she did real bad shit, but, again, it's Identity Crisis, she's far from the only one who got screwed over during it, specially considering we're talking about 2000's DC, if someone wants to point out she fucked up there, fine, but she's not the only one that's part of that, and again, that's far from being her norm, at least as far as I've seen she just shows up here and there doing her thing without really screwing over anyone, even being helpful more often than not, so yeah, she's a character who's in a safe spot where she doesn't get much people to dislike her lol.

    Hell, I doubt even YJ will get many people to dislike her despite what she did there with having her protegés become Doctor Fate once in a while, in a way that looks like grooming, it sucks she did that, but compared to the nasty bullshit other heroes did, she's relatively tame lol.

    It has to do with how she's been written ever since that relationship was solidified and how she has become so defined as Constantine's girlfriend ever since. She's been turned into what TV Tropes calls 'The Chick' of the group, 'The Designated Love Interest' and 'Damsel In Distress'.

    Compare her in JLD Vol 1 to how she was written in stuff like her own ongoing, Everyday Magic, '87 Zatanna Special, Adventures of Superman #522 and Action Comics #873. Much stronger, proactive and confident character.
    That sounds like most ships, one where one character gets screwed over for the sake of another, I don't care about those even if I'm only interested on the character who isn't being screwed over.

    I still enjoy his JSA stuff. I think in the end he just over stretched himself and I was sick of DC starting to feel like a shitty fanfic authored by Didio and Johns.
    Yeah, writers stretching themselves thin by making too many titles is never a good idea.

    On the Marvel side back in silver age, there was the ridiculously high amount of titles Jack Kirby and Stan Lee were working on, some got the short end of the stick, X-Men were pretty noticeable in that 'cause they're just a bland F4 clone, and it really overused Magneto.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalman112 View Post
    Colleen Doran.


    Attachment 122385
    Bettie Page as Zatanna?

  4. #754

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    Yeah, that's definitely based off of Bettie Page. Not the first time I've seen artists use her as a reference.

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  5. #755
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  6. #756
    Fantastic Member Mai Zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post



    They really should drop the New 52 art style and go back to that one from season 1 and 2.

    The biggest difference between the previous and current art style is that the current one is more detailed, more detailed is worse for animation since that makes it more expensive and harder to animate, the difference between the quality of a random fight from seasons 1 and 2, and a "big" fight from 3 and 4 are night and day.

    Hell, season 4's best fight for me is the fight where the lights are turned off and the Team has to fight against Lady Shiva and her goons, there are plenty of moments with awkwardly stiff animations either way...
    For Zee, its kinda funny as Zatanna design is simplified since S3




    You can see that, they erasing the buttons on her corset and more simple choker bowtie on her neck.
    Man, I have a full hope Mir Studio could flexing their animation skills like when they animating Avatar Korra.

    I once wondering how its feel to be Zatanna fans during the Identity Crisis era xd. I mean its must be suck to see her become an emotional punching bag when lot of people put the blame on her plus lot of hardship she endure for consequence she done there. At least its ease off her sins and I'm glad got a nice redemption story in Seven Soldiers Zatanna (I like her dynamic with Misty Kilgore as teacher-protege) and in Detective Comic story when written by Paul Dini. At least her image is totally destroyed.

    Honestly I'm expecting same level of image destruction on YJ Zatanna, but well She can bounce back from that disastrous event at her arc
    Last edited by Mai Zen; Yesterday at 10:38 PM.

  7. #757
    Fantastic Member Mai Zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    "...it's not a show about superheroes. It's about people.."

    What a stupid response.

    Okay so you didn't deliver a story that your audience was expecting but what about the animation? The animation sucked. Trying to fool us by using slideshows during flashbacks....Ssooo many flashbacks.
    As much as I hate how he write Zatanna in her arc, I like that Greg usually can maintain cool head answering fans question or critiques, but yeah he got heated up a lot recently. Granted the show got a lot of bombardment recently.

    Anyway a fanart of Zatanna with her Trogowog by basatierenict. She can form a group of super pets along with her white tiger Mischa (?) , Captain Carrot, whole legion of rabbits and doves xd.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I love her design there, nice wavy hair. Good and fun team up with Selina

  8. #758
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mai Zen View Post
    For Zee, its kinda funny as Zatanna design is simplified since S3




    You can see they erasing the buttons on her corset and more simple choker bowtie on her neck.
    Man, I have a full hope Mir Studio could flexing their animation skills like when they animating Avatar Korra.

    I once wondering how its feel to be Zatanna fans during the Identity Crisis era xd. I mean its must be suck to see her become an emotional punching bag when lot of people put the blame on her plus lot of hardship she endure for consequence she done there. At least its ease off her sins and I'm glad got a nice redemption story in Seven Soldiers Zatanna (I like her dynamic with Misty Kilgore as teacher-protege) and in Detective Comic story when written by Paul Dini. At least her image is totally destroyed.

    Honestly I'm expecting same level of image destruction on YJ Zatanna, but well She can bounce back from that disastrous event at her arc
    I wonder if she'll ever wear the top hat.

  9. #759
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mai Zen View Post
    For Zee, its kinda funny as Zatanna design is simplified since S3
    https://i.postimg.cc/MHTpWZWJ/Zatanna-fight.jpg

    https://i.postimg.cc/ZRDhx8hX/Zatanna-vine-strikes.jpg

    You can see that, they erasing the buttons on her corset and more simple choker bowtie on her neck.
    Didn't even notice those.

    Man, I have a full hope Mir Studio could flexing their animation skills like when they animating Avatar Korra.
    What I heard and saw of Korra had the animation being worse compared to Avatar because they decided to add more details lol.

    More details in animation can look cooler, but it's harder to animate, and simpler art styles can work fine in showing off characters too, so YJ going the New 52 art style route is just worse.

    It's sad when I randomly check out a random season 1/2 episode and think "Oh man the animation is so much better" almost every time.

    Honestly I'm expecting same level of image destruction on YJ Zatanna, but well She can bounce back from that disastrous event at her arc
    I really doubt there'll be "image destruction" in YJ, characters in that cartoon do shitty actions and are almost always rewarded for 'em with no one else having a problem with what they did for long.

    Hell, Zatanna's own questionable actions made Giovanni be saved, so she's another example of this.

    The only thing left that could fuck her up (Assuming season 5 doesn't come up with more stuff) is how back in season 3, her and M'gann made Artemis talk with a fake Wally so Artemis can move on, but I doubt anything will happen, 'cause, again, characters tend to be rewarded for shitty actions, and Zatanna may be safe because M'gann was part of the plan, and M'gann has a pretty solid plot armor.

    Time will tell though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if she'll ever wear the top hat.
    Maybe only after Giovanni dies, since he did wear a top hat back in season 1 lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

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