Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[ComicNoobie]

Yeah, he was originally supposed to be Wonder Man + Pym particles, which *should* have made him like a thousand times stronger than Thor, but, not so much, and then Busiek kind of soft retconned him to mostly have growth powers fueled by ionic energy, and lose the side-buff of Wonder Man level strength at human size.



Good point, and you are totally right in that it would be an ugly look if the MCU fielded a young woman whose super-power involved getting beat down and shot up dozens of times each appearance...

'Cause that's gonna be Laura Kinney's job.

Laura could have made for fun Young Avenger back in the day. She did eventually join the Avengers Academy afterall.

I just want her to be able to change size without tech. I think that is potentially what could make her stand out from all the other Pym Particle users in the MCU right now. I know it's not that special in the comics anymore, but it would be pretty groundbreaking in the MCU considering what's been established. Although I imagine it's not practical for the special effects team to make a giant-sized, realistic looking person as opposed to someone who's always under a full-body costume, including the face.

However unlikely it would be, I would love for Cassie to have her powers without the suit. It could be a power she gets from the Quantum realm same as how Janet has powers. Or maybe she ingest the Pym Particles since their liquid in the MCU. However it is I would love for her to have the powers without the suit. But like you said, the effects would probably be tough to make look real, so she's likely stuck in the suit. I'll accept it if she stomps several bad guys in her oversized sneakers lol.

Ay so this is random but I just wanna say I been playing Midnight Suns & Billy truly would have been a perfect addition to this game the way they dive into the lore of the elder gods in this game is more than Marvel has ever done in the comics! The fact they don’t mention the Demiurge at all is such a missed opportunity. Unfortunately I don’t think Billy’s been born yet in Midnight Suns universe but OMG he would have been perfect hopefully in a sequel.

I'm just waiting for a Marvel game to feature the Young Avengers team in a big game. It's my dream that they'll be in a potential Marvel Ultimate Alliance 4 game. It's probably very unlikely but I would play the heck out of that team in a action RPG. Is MUA still a action RPG?

[Phoenixx9]

Not quite. His decline in normal-size strength happened long before Busiek turned him into Atlas. He had started as Power Man--just plain and simple super-strength from the same machine that created Wonder Man. But the procedure was not as successful for him as it was for Simon and his strength level had started to decline over the years (he temporarily changed names to the Smuggler for a while after losing the Power Man name to Luke Cage) which was what had led to him eventually get the Pym Particle boost and turn himself into Goliath.

Since becoming Atlas he's been through a few more power fluxes, such as when he 'died' and came back as an ionic energy ghost possessing the body of his girlfriend. When he was possessing her body he had super-strength and flight. When he was finally restored to his own human body he was seemingly powerless until he got another dose of Pym Particles for a while. Those got taken away and he was seemingly normal non-powered human again....until his ionic powers re-manifested and turned him back into Atlas. Now he's got his giant-size powers again, and its not clear exactly how strong he is at normal size....but I'd say its probably safe to guess that his normal size strength is technically super-human....but not the high-end super-strength he used to have back when he was Power Man.

How strong do you think Erik was as Power Man? At the time he lost to Luke Cage? As the Smuggler?

Always wondered about these as I was sure he was down in power, but at least Cl 10, but Cage seemed to beat him easily and Cage was only about Cl 3 to Cl 10 himself.

[Dermie]

How strong do you think Erik was as Power Man? At the time he lost to Luke Cage? As the Smuggler?

Always wondered about these as I was sure he was down in power, but at least Cl 10, but Cage seemed to beat him easily and Cage was only about Cl 3 to Cl 10 himself.

Its really hard to say for sure since his power levels kept changing and a lot of those early appearances were back in the days before Handbooks and official power ratings and strength classes. Plus fights don't always come down to just strength level (otherwise characters like Captain America and Black Widow would have been killed off years ago), so you've got characters who are technically stronger losing to a weaker opponent due to differences in fighting skill or style; circumstances of the fight; or sometimes even just plain luck.

When he first became Power Man, Erik was not in the same strength class as Wonder Man--but he was still very strong. We know at some point after that his powers started to fade....but we don't really know when it started or at what rate. :/

Anyway, to get back to the topic of the Young Avengers....whenever the team finally reassembles and (hopefully) gets their own book again, I would like to see Fuse and Alloy join the team! It could help fill in some gaps in the roster with Patriot's status still up in the air; Jonas dead; Prodigy possibly busy on Krakoa; Loki off with his own concerns; Wiccan, Hulkling and Marvel Boy all off-planet with the Guardians and/or the Kree/Skrull Alliance.

They've got ties to Kate, Chavez and Noh-Varr, and are practically unofficial members anyway since Kelly Thompson's WEST COAST AVENGERS series was basically "West Coast Young Avengers", with Clint as the only adult member on the team. They'd bring some additional racial diversity to the cast, which would be especially good if Prodigy and Eli aren't available. They are both LGBT, so they fit the YA's queer-heavy history. They're too good to just go to waste in comics limbo.

[Drops Of Venus]

Anyway, to get back to the topic of the Young Avengers....whenever the team finally reassembles and (hopefully) gets their own book again, I would like to see Fuse and Alloy join the team! It could help fill in some gaps in the roster with Patriot's status still up in the air; Jonas dead; Prodigy possibly busy on Krakoa; Loki off with his own concerns; Wiccan, Hulkling and Marvel Boy all off-planet with the Guardians and/or the Kree/Skrull Alliance.

They've got ties to Kate, Chavez and Noh-Varr, and are practically unofficial members anyway since Kelly Thompson's WEST COAST AVENGERS series was basically "West Coast Young Avengers", with Clint as the only adult member on the team. They'd bring some additional racial diversity to the cast, which would be especially good if Prodigy and Eli aren't available. They are both LGBT, so they fit the YA's queer-heavy history. They're too good to just go to waste in comics limbo.

I think Marvel pretty much sabotaged Fuse and Alloy by breaking up their relationships with Kate and America. It was basically their last link to the Young Avengers, but now that that's not a thing anymore and they're not even living in the same state, it's kinda hard to come up with an excuse for them to be hanging out with Kate/MAC and their friends. I wouldn't oppose them joining, but right now I just don't see them being prioritized over the more classic members.

[Fokken]

I mean, I love this whole group. It makes me wish the YA had done what the Champions had done, in terms of networking and creating a wide net of young heroes joining together.



Throw the Runaways in the mix too wth

[Frontier]

I think Marvel pretty much sabotaged Fuse and Alloy by breaking up their relationships with Kate and America. It was basically their last link to the Young Avengers, but now that that's not a thing anymore and they're not even living in the same state, it's kinda hard to come up with an excuse for them to be hanging out with Kate/MAC and their friends. I wouldn't oppose them joining, but right now I just don't see them being prioritized over the more classic members.

And both happened off-panel!

Although as long as Kelly Thompson is writing Marvel, she'll probably find a way to work them into her books.

[Dermie]

I think Marvel pretty much sabotaged Fuse and Alloy by breaking up their relationships with Kate and America. It was basically their last link to the Young Avengers, but now that that's not a thing anymore and they're not even living in the same state, it's kinda hard to come up with an excuse for them to be hanging out with Kate/MAC and their friends. I wouldn't oppose them joining, but right now I just don't see them being prioritized over the more classic members.

Those links haven't been cut off though -- Kate and Ramone were/are close friends before Ramone and Chavez ever started dating. Kate and Johnny's break-up was amicable, so they are still friends. And Ramone and America's break-up was pretty amicable too; it left the door open for them to get back together when/if America was ready.

And if Teddy and Billy can maintain their friendships with the team while being off-planet, I don't think Ramone and Johnny being on the other coast of the same country should really prevent them from being able to connect with the others if they need to (especially on a team that has both Chavez and Wiccan capable of teleporting people).

I agree those two are unlikely to be prioritized over classic members--but I am saying they would make good new recruits if any of the classic members are deemed 'unavailable' at the time a new series launches. After all, its not as if the team hasn't had changes before. Speed, Jonas/Vision, America Chavez, Prodigy, Marvel Boy and Loki are all 'new recruits' who joined the team along the way.

[Journey]

Ok I’m really confused on the direction of Billy & Teddy’s current comic I really have an issue with some of Teddy’s behavior as well I just don’t like when it’s very clear your partner has an issue with someone & you ignore it & get too familiar with that person that feels like betrayal to me theirs being nice & then there’s getting too comfortable, I’m actually kind of here for the mess of it all but if the trajectory of this comic doesn’t lead to Billy either ending Goebig, or Brtraying him in some capacity then it’s kind of like what’s the point? Cause like you know Marvel Is not about to break them up especially in a webcomic, & their going to be fine by the end of the run, so the most they could do to make this remotely memorable is have Billy do something extreme which is what I feel is being alluded like all the signs for 1 of Billy’s episodes is being presented & it’s being ignored.

[Fokken]

Ok I’m really confused on the direction of Billy & Teddy’s current comic I really have an issue with some of Teddy’s behavior as well I just don’t like when it’s very clear your partner has an issue with someone & you ignore it & get too familiar with that person that feels like betrayal to me theirs being nice & then there’s getting too comfortable, I’m actually kind of here for the mess of it all but if the trajectory of this comic doesn’t lead to Billy either ending Goebig, or Brtraying him in some capacity then it’s kind of like what’s the point? Cause like you know Marvel Is not about to break them up especially in a webcomic, & their going to be fine by the end of the run, so the most they could do to make this remotely memorable is have Billy do something extreme which is what I feel is being alluded like all the signs for 1 of Billy’s episodes is being presented & it’s being ignored.

I hope this story is left in whatever hidden drawer of abandoned narratives exists at Marvel HQ, along with Death's Head.

[ComicNoobie]

I forgot about Fuse and Alloy, have they been in any comics since Kate left the west coast? They could join a future Young Avenger team, as it makes sense to have a few new members on the team should they return...and the issues with Patriot which I still don't quite understand. It does make me wonder who from the OG team would return for it?

[Digifiend]

The team would probably be Hawkeye, Stinger, America, Speed, and some newbies, as Wiccan, Hulkling (due to being Prince Consort and Emperor of the Kree-Skrull Alliance), Patriot (apparent legal issues), Noh-Varr (last seen as a Guardian of the Galaxy), Jonas Vision (dead), Iron Lad (revealed to be a young Kang), Loki (aged up), and Prodigy (returned to Krakoa) are all unavailable. Fuse and Alloy would make sense as new members given their existing links to Kate and MAC. They could also pull in a Champion or two now that they've seemingly disbanded - though I could also see Ms. Marvel rejoining the main Avengers team instead.

[Waking Replica]

The Unlimited comic (so far) feels like Billy and Teddy are being forced through an xmen-esque relationship soap opera meat grinder to appease fans who criticize them for being "too perfect and boring". Anthony Oliveira and Al Ewing's stories with them are perfect examples of how to give them conflict without it forcing them to be some sort of early Emma-Jean-Scott type mess. Split them up physically, make the political circumstances so they have to fight to be together- use the strength of their relationship as a conduit for storytelling, rather than destabilize it to make them more "relatable".

[Drops Of Venus]

Yeah, I'm just not feeling this webcomic. There's some interesting ideas there, but the execution feels just so basic and shallow. I'm not against conflict, but there isn't anything particularly appealing about the way it's done here so far. I feel like it's a classic case of a writer liking his OC and then wanting to push them for more stories, which is not really a problem when you have enough content of the characters in question. When it comes to Billy and Teddy, though? I just can't help but feel like it's a waste of the very little Wickling material we get these days. If this was a side story while they have their own ongoing I would probably feel a lot less frustrated about it. Like, I just don't care enough about Goebig to enjoy a whole Wiccan & Hulkling miniseries revolving around his drama.

One good thing I'm gonna say is that the villain looks good. I hope we get some good action from him.

[Fokken]

The Unlimited comic (so far) feels like Billy and Teddy are being forced through an xmen-esque relationship soap opera meat grinder to appease fans who criticize them for being "too perfect and boring". Anthony Oliveira and Al Ewing's stories with them are perfect examples of how to give them conflict without it forcing them to be some sort of early Emma-Jean-Scott type mess. Split them up physically, make the political circumstances so they have to fight to be together- use the strength of their relationship as a conduit for storytelling, rather than destabilize it to make them more "relatable".

Precisely.
People who are in love, who are married, who are end game like these two-- they can HAVE conflict. That's normal. And it doesn't have to BE their love, that's in danger. The angle of "trouble in paradise" is so basic. These characters can have their lives turned upside down, they can be separated by duty, thrown into life threatening danger, they can have their relationship questioned and scrutinized by others, but they can STILL maintain the same level of adoration for each other that fans fell in love with --especially at this stage of their lives.

Billy can be jealous of the Throne -- and by that I mean, the throne / title is very demanding OF Teddy. It imposes an abundance of obligations and inconveniences that may conflict with what Billy wants for himself, for Teddy, and for their future. But that doesn't mean Billy has to fall prey to the "Does he love me anymore? Are we doomed??" No. Of course not. But discontent with one's circumstance, or the circumstances of one's partner/husband is perfectly normal stuff to address.
Additionally, Billy experiencing insecurity about the perception people have of him and his marriage to the Emperor, as neither Skrull, Kree or Hybrid -- that would also be a perfectly natural conflict to process and address and recognize his "foreign" perspective as a strength rather than a hindrance in the Alliance landscape.

Teddy could be jealous of Billy being able to LEAVE space, with greater ease and less sense of obligation, to pursue Avengery things and visit Earth and participate in non-Empyre stuff in general. And together they can work through solutions there. Designate or appoint a "Hand of the King" or something.
And don't get me started on the Demiurge concerns because they are vast and they are many and they are in dire need of further exploration (I'm looking at you, Oliveira).

Characters in love need not have said love balancing on a wafer thin fence just waiting to be toppled by the next sexy beefy BREEZE that blows by.

[Journey]

Ya know that’s another thing about Billy the writers can’t really seem to decide on how he feels about being the Prince Consort, ever since it happened some writers have him sad about not being able to go to earth while others depict him as really enjoying royalty & it’s perks, I get these are both very human reactions but for a comic book character it comes off as inconsistency in writing.